Changing from 10 -> 25er Heroic, Some Questions

[Special-K]

Hellos,

we are slowly Testing new Players in the 10men HC so we can Switch to 25 but its Hard to Figure out if the DMG would be enough we are at 12 Heroics down with 2 Raid-Days (3Hours each)
but all Players we Test even if they have like 10 HCs down 570+ilvl they cant even nearly stay on Foot with our DPS (wich have same Ilvl) i have to say after 7 Years of WoW Progressing i can clearly say our DPS palyers r Crazy good but how iam supposed to Know if we maybe want to much DPS from the new Players while they probaly do more enough for 25 Mode.



My last Question would be if someone else swaped to 25men from 10men what are the Major changes?

I was watching most Guides again on 25men but i dont wanna miss anythink

So if someone would be so Kind to fact out the Changes per Boss on Heroic i dont think its that much but i dont wanna swap to 25men and miss any Changes and fail than because of it.


Thanks for your Time and sorry for my probaly Bad english Skills

[KaPe]

Well, it's hard to say if your 10 man core players are just that good - I'm sure you'd like it to be true but, well, you know - and others simply can't keep up, or if they simply farmed their gear from all the "easy" bosses and can't go much further.

Either way, there are no harsh dps checks early on that you should really struggle with 570+, unless people are really really bad. First eight should be pretty much a given. Honestly, the first actual dps check would be Spoils - assuming you don't have multiple deaths on Malkorok to random crap, that is. If both groups can finish their rooms "easily", you're fine. If not, switching people around and checking how much it helps will also give you the idea who is holding you back.

As for the bosses - there are multiple threads about 10->25 changes, so I'll keep it short:

- Immerseus : stacks on boss dissapear nearly instantly, just mass dispel everyone and it's trivial.

- Protectors : pretty much the same thing, simply more stuff to dispel

- Norushen : more people to cleanse = more adds = need to pick up the pace. Either keep chaining adds one by one *quickly*, or release big 3-5 groups and use cooldowns.

- Sha of Pride : need to cover all four prisons so you generally split into four groups. Not much changes besides it.

- Galakras/Iron Jugg : same thing really

- Shamans : should be easier since you'll pretty much always have a priest for Prisons and three tanks. Other than that, same.

- Nazgrim : adds might be slightly harder to kill, but it's same thing really. Well, unless people suck and keep hitting him in Defensive.

- Malkorok : should be much easier to keep the room clean with multiple players that can absorb the orbs. Blood Rage is harder to solo tank and there's 7 pools, so more potential points of failure.

- Spoils : same thing really, except bomb on healer isn't nearly as dangerous.

- Thok : since the nerf, it's about the same difficulty I guess. You generally want to get 27-30 stacks every time, chain Devo, cooldowns, etc. Solo tanking doesn't help as much as it does in 10 man, and it's generally better to have more healers than risk it with 5-6.

- Blackfuse : ~4 people on the belt, kill the mines on the main platform, don't assume you'll "zerg" him in <5 waves or something. If you're really low on CC, might want to keep missiles, but they're kinda messy with 25 people.

- Paragons : well, never really saw them in 10 man, but I assume tank scorpion is a big one and it can't almost solo bosses on its own. The space is very limited, there's a lot of parasites running around, fiery edges everywhere and it can get even worse with catalysts.

- Garrosh : pretty similar *in theory*, with one big difference being that you usually kite the adds from empowered whirls. It's possible to kill them, but spreading is a pain and not really worth it. Since the nerf, phase 4 should be roughly the same in both formats. No real dps checks, beside the obvious <25 energy during first transition.

Also, be wary of all the "25 are so much easier and you'll steamroll them" posts. While there is a difficulty difference, having a lot of new people or those used to "easy" bosses can negate this advantage very quickly.

[Special-K]

Tanks KaPe for all this Infos actualy took some "scare" of me since i really though DPS reqs. could be way Higher..

And the Changes well i guess i didnt missed anything in the Guides i Read pretty much the Same, wich is Nice so i atleast know i didnt Missed any Important stuff ...

Thank you

(to our core actualy some Testers had better Gear than we did since we get like 99% Leather to Dis any ID -.- probaly its just about that they were Progress Raiders since Release with buttload of server First kills and they used to Push to the Limits and Theorycraft like Crazy and Newer players arent that Crazy on all that anymore... i dont know ^^)

[Deleted]

Tanks KaPe for all this Infos actualy took some "scare" of me since i really though DPS reqs. could be way Higher..

And the Changes well i guess i didnt missed anything in the Guides i Read pretty much the Same, wich is Nice so i atleast know i didnt Missed any Important stuff ...

Thank you

(to our core actualy some Testers had better Gear than we did since we get like 99% Leather to Dis any ID -.- probaly its just about that they were Progress Raiders since Release with buttload of server First kills and they used to Push to the Limits and Theorycraft like Crazy and Newer players arent that Crazy on all that anymore... i dont know ^^)

I think our first raid when transitioning was with 22 people, and a quarter of those were socials and/or extremely low geared trials. We 1-shot everything up to Thok on our first night. You'll be nervous of the unknown beforehand, but likely you will soon realise that 25m is an order of magnitude easier, although the ridiculous loot more than makes up for that disappointment.

If you can't maintain the quality of your group while expanding, you may run into issues.