1. #1

    Guild I Pug with Struggles with Garrosh Normal (Help point out issue, logs included)

    Hey guys. Looking for a little advise b/c i'm at a lose as to why we are struggling so much with Garrosh on normal. Background info: I pug with this group pretty often and for the most part its a great group, we have struggled with OT's showing up and stuff but we 1. Have fun (most important) 2. Get along. 3 Kill shit. However, this group can not kill Garrosh on Normal. Hell, i've been in wipes with them on Flex (more than 1).

    IMO. Our dps just isn't there. Its fine for everything else but when it comes down to it, 200k is great but they need to either be doing 220ish or they have to switch so much faster to the Adds, MC'd, and Weapon. Our fix this weekend may be to try to single heal Normal b/c we can't get it down. (single heal with a monk during pure emin healing, she can do about 120k dps as healer which is my thought for the missed dps)

    I'm looking for anything to help. So here is the logs of the last time I was there.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/255j16endoolfyrv/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2cqquzvf3f7rq2q1/


    Thank you guys.

  2. #2
    Have you thought about changing strats so you dont have to kill the weapons? I.e. afer p1 moving around the room and just ignoring them?

    THe only pug kill i've had of garrosh normal we were having trouble untill we did it like that, and got it down in 3 tries, that was 2 tanks, 2 healers, 6 dps, most dps hovering slightly over 200k, one priest at 150k.

  3. #3
    Just from a quick overview of the warlocks logs I can see that in an 8:04 minute fight chaos bolt was cast just 9 times compared to my amount of casts at 37 in a 8:01 fight (The log Im looking at for me is flexi but that shouldn't really matter as I do not have a recent garrosh normal log because of hc prog) my immolate % uptime was around 86% to his 53%. Immolate will allow you to cast a lot more chaos bolts during the fight.

    My 33 shadowburns over the fight to his 2, he should shadowburn the smaller adds to gain embers so that he can cast more chaos bolts onto the boss. If you're progressing on garrosh I would suggest leaving the adds mostly for the iron star to deal with and maybe have 1 or 2 people constantly aoeing them because otherwise if everyone aoed thats a lot of wasted damage that could be going into garrosh rather than the adds that die often to the iron star.

    Other than the logs I suggests he casts havoc onto the weapon/boss to cleave that down as in the longest attempt he didnt cast it once to my 10 times. he also only cast rain of fire 8 times throughout the fight when there are more than 3 adds up for most of the fight.
    Last edited by Mori123; 2014-03-06 at 06:44 PM.

  4. #4
    just go over what's killing you guys on each attempt to put stuff in perspective:

    1. add tank (dk) dies to damage gets brezz then both die, make sure you're getting adds into the ironstar w/ typhoon or some other knockback, and that healers are healing tanks, and that tansk are using cds
    2. add tank dies (warr), eats brezz, failure to heal through empowered whirl
    3. see 1+ hunter stands in ironstar and basically LOL
    4. IRONSTAR STRIKES AGAIN
    5. garrosh tank (dk this pull) is standing in desecrate and pulling adds off the warrior and not getting many heals
    6. pally stands in ironstar, eats brezz,whirls wipes raid
    7. monk dies to eating desecrate, eats brezz, failure to heal through annihilates

    part 2-
    1. pally dies to whirl+dk tank diseases (monk healer, spriest, or pally himself should've dispelled, he also could've divine shielded, LoH'd or even divine protectioned), mind controls go bad, tank dies to garrosh+ desecrate, then mind controls go bad too
    2. hunter eats annihilate and brezz, failure to heal through whirl
    3. tank death (dk) to lack of cd use and lack of heals+ whirl healing failure
    4. see 1-1 (dk death)
    5. mistweaver eats ironstar, hunter stands in desecrate, whirl wipes you 4 minutes of 9manning later
    6. whirl healing failure
    7. annihilate healing failure (or failure of tard hunter to stack for heals) eats brezz, wipe to whirl healing failure

    remedies:
    P1 tank deaths: have your shammy or somebody just spam chain lightning and pad their dps hard to get adds does so they don't get too many warsongs and kill tanks, and don't miss knockbacks into ironstars (P2 ones can be stopped by telling your tanks to GET THE FUCK OUT OF DESECRATE), tank deaths are part on the dk tank, not being the best at using cds and active mitigation and from lack of heals from healers (shared blame)

    whirls: DO NOT STAND IN THOSE PURPLE SWIRLIES, THEY DO 200K! also, use defensive cd's (shaman rage, barkskin, astral shift, temporal shield, maybe even ice block, disperse, deterrence if needed) and set up a rotation of healing/defensive cooldowns for each whirl (there are 3 whirls between each transition and you have a ton of cooldowns), whirl healing is your biggest issue other than tank healing imo, this shouldn't be challenging if you guys can kill thok, you definitely can put out the heals for it

    whirl adds: be patient, move them, use taunts, even if you're a healer, if they ended up slowed or rooted, leave em for a bit and let em keep chasing you, they don't hit too hard

    on the 2 specs I played this fight on:
    healing overall- remind people to pop healthstones and personal defensive cds
    call for healing cds, and do it earlier, rather than later, you've got tons to work with, try to have plan for them too, like
    annihilates- healing tide (and remind people to stack, this shouldn't be a struggle to heal really)
    whirl 1- NV+tranq, max hp shout
    whirl 2- ancestral guidance, revival, devo aura
    whirl 3- banner, NV, vamp embrace

    I don't know what to say about tank healing other than top them off as often as possible


    resto druid:
    barkskin every whirl, ALL OF THEM bind it to something convenient like alt 1 or shift 1
    use ironbark on tanks more, especially dk
    make sure to use your 2p procs and your clear casting procs, a lot of them sat around unused (especially 2p, clearcasting usage may have just been ignored when not needed)
    don't be afraid to spam regrowth on the tank if needed to keep him alive,or to single target bloom or whatever you have to do keep him up, and try to throw a regroth them once in a while rather than just hots
    get more innervates in per fight, cast it the first time you hit about 210k mana and then on cooldown afterwards (70%), you usually do 1 per fight
    it feels like you're conflicted over how to use SotF, just use it for tank healing unless a whirl is about to come

    mistweaver:
    diffuse magic on whirls 1 and 3, fort brew annihilates or whirl 2
    TFT uplift a bit before EVERY whirl to get ReM on all of the raid (or at least 9) (he's just doing some)
    he needs to use enveloping mists more, no wonder tanks are dying, all he does is uplift
    why RJW? imo chi torpedo is the best for garrosh, even on 10, unless you want xuen's dps
    he should either fistweave or help heal tanks in some way more in between aoe healing events
    I assume from lack of fist-weaving and surging that he's not abusing his meta gem as well as he could be
    make sure he healing sphere spams or even just throws a couple down once in a while in case a tank needs it to get up FAST

  5. #5
    Stack method is not recommended. Only kill weapons in P1, otherwise move around the room in P2 and P3.

    Overall your DPS is low, they should be aiming for 200k. On your longest tries most are around 160k.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ryklin View Post
    just go over what's killing you guys on each attempt to put stuff in perspective:

    1. add tank (dk) dies to damage gets brezz then both die, make sure you're getting adds into the ironstar w/ typhoon or some other knockback, and that healers are healing tanks, and that tansk are using cds
    2. add tank dies (warr), eats brezz, failure to heal through empowered whirl
    3. see 1+ hunter stands in ironstar and basically LOL
    4. IRONSTAR STRIKES AGAIN
    5. garrosh tank dk this pull is standing in desecrate and pulling adds off the warrior and not getting many heals
    6. pally stands in ironstar, eats brezz,whirls wipes raid
    7. monk dies to eating desecrate, eats brezz, failure to heal through annihilates

    part 2-
    1. pally dies to whirl+dk tank diseases (monk healer, spriest, or pally himself should've dispelled, he also could've divine shielded, LoH'd or even divine protectioned), mind controls go bad, tank dies to garrosh+ desecrate, then mind controls go bad too
    2. hunter eats annihilate and brezz, failure to heel through whirl
    3. tank death dk) to lack of cd use and lack of heals+ whirl healing failure
    4. see 1-1 dk death
    5. mistweaver eats ironstar, hunter stands in desecrate, whirl wipes you 4 minutes of 9manning later
    6. whirl healing failure
    7. annihilate healing failure (or failure of tard hunter to stack for heals) eats brezz, wipe to whirl healing failure

    remedies:
    P1 tank deaths: have your shammy or somebody just spam chain lightning and pad their dps hard to get adds does so they don't get too many warsongs and kill tanks, and don't miss knockbacks into ironstars (P2 ones can be stopped by telling your tanks to GET THE FUCK OUT OF DESECRATE), tank deaths are part on the dk tank, not being the best at using cds and active mitigation and from lack of heals from healers (shared blame)

    whirls: DO NOT STAND lN TH0SE PURPLE SWIRL1ES, THeY DO 20OK! also, use defensive cd's (shaman rage, barkskin, astral shift, temporal shield, maybe even ice block, disperse, deterrence if needed) and set up a rotation of healing/defensive cooldowns for each whirl (there are 3 whirls between each transition and you have a ton of cooldowns), whirl healing is your biggest issue other than tank healing imo, this shouldn't be challenging if you guys can kill thok, you definitely can put out the heels for it

    whirl adds: be patient, move them, use taunts, even if you're a healer, if they ended up slowed or rooted, leave em for a bit and let em keep chasing you, they don't hit too hard

    on the 2 specs I played this fight on:
    healing overall- remind people to pop healthstones and personal defensive cds
    call for healing cds, and do it earlier, rather than later, you've got tons to work with, try to have plan for them too, like
    annihilates- healing tide (and remind people to stack, this shouldn't be a struggle to heal really)
    whirl 1- NV+tranq, max hp shout
    whirl 2- ancestral guidance, revival, devo aura
    whrl 3- banner, NV, vamp embrace

    I don't know what to say about tank healing other than top them off as often as possible


    resto druid:
    barkskin every whirl, ALL OF THEM bind it to something convenient like alt 1 or shift 1
    use ironbark on tanks more, especially dk
    make sure to use your 2p procs and your clear casting procs, a lot of them sat around unused (especially 2p, clearcasting usage may have just been ignored when not needed)
    don't be afraid to spam regrowth on the tank if needed to keep him alive,or to single target bloom or whatever you have to do keep him up, and try to throw a regroth them once in a while rather than just hots
    get more innervates in per fight, cast it the first time you hit about 210k mana and then on cooldown afterwards (70%), you usually do 1 per fight
    it feels like you're conflicted over how to use SotF, just use it for tank healing unless a whirl is about to come

    mistweaver:
    diffuse magic on whirls 1 and 3, fort brew annihilates or whirl 2
    TFT uplift a bit before EVERY whirl to get ReM on all of the raid (or at least 9) (he's just doing some)
    he needs to use enveloping mists more, no wonder tanks are dying, all he does is uplift
    why RJW? imo chi torpedo is the best for garrosh, even on 10, unless you want xuen's dps
    he should either fistweave. or help heal tanks in some way more, in between aoe heeling events
    I assume from lack of fist-weaving and surging that. hes not abusing his meta gem as well as he could be
    make sure he healing sphere spams or even just throws a couple down once in a while in case a tank needs it to get up fAsT!
    And to add to that, the healers need to be pumping out a lot more healing because even with dps not standing in bad stuff they should still be doing more hps for their gear levels.

  7. #7
    Looking at your longer attempts one of the big issues is Cooldown usage (or lack of use). There are key cooldowns being used far too infrequently if at all across the board. As an example looking at the elemental shaman (sorry to pick the shaman out but it's what I'm playing at the moment) in this 8min attempt:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2...?s=3025&e=3509
    1. they used ascendance once in an 8min fight. It has a 3min cd so could have been used 3 times. it's a big cd that makes a huge difference to dps.
    2. ele shaman are awesome for emergency off heals (especially when healers are struggling as they appear to be). Looking at that attempt as an example your shaman contributed zero (0) healing the entire attempt. This means that they didn't pop healing tide totem, healing stream or ancestral guidance once during the entire attempt. Using those cds at the right time can make the difference between a raid group surviving whirling corruption or losing a few people.
    3. Shamanistic rage, 30% dmg reduction on 1min cooldown, does not seem to have been used once.

    Can't see any interrupts there from anyone? What was going on with mind controlled players?

    Looks like the lock is is padding off the adds quite a bit wasting resources on them rather than chaos bolting Garrosh. On one of the longer attempts for example he/she appeared to be 'top' dps overall, but once you take add padding out he/she was 4th dps on Garrosh. If he was using rain of fire to generate embers to chaos bolt Garrosh that would be different but it doesnt appear to be happening. Like others have said, Iron Star usually wipes out a majority of the adds hp anyway so if you're sacrificing single target dps on Garrosh to burn the adds down you're generally doing it wrong.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome
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    Holy shit that hunter is bad. He can easy double his dps.
    Serpent sting never used, kill command almost never used.
    17 cobra shots on a 8min fight...

    Though he is winning dps on some bosses, amazed how far in normal u can go w/o any clue on how to play =D

  9. #9
    Just some class specific stuff.

    Mage / pala have about 65% uptime on inquisition / living bomb / evocation etc.

    These are buffs that increase damage by 15-30% and last a minute. It boggles my mind that every time someone struggles they are doing "class 101" wrong.

  10. #10
    Only have a short second to post, so I'll make it very brief.

    One thing that really stands out in terms of tank deaths (or a real gamble at dying, at the very least) is the CC of adds. While it doesn't happen every time, I bet your raid has noticed that "Golly, those tanks just look like they got one-shot out of nowhere!" The reason is that if you AoE stun the Warbringers or even the minions, their swing timers reset. If they're all in melee range of a tank when the CC wears off, they are all going to hit the tank simultaneously. It's very easy to notice in the logs, because you see all the adds attacking within hundredths of a second.

    It looks like your warrior tank is using Shockwave on them, have him stop doing that and I guarantee you won't have P1 tank deaths from adds destroying your tanks... this also helps healers out so they don't have to go nuts healing the tanks getting trucked.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  11. #11
    I wouldnt try to single heal, a lot of you damage taken comes from avoidable stuff, and you seem to be struggling with empowered whirling corruption as it is

    2 things:
    a) change strats so you dont waste dps in the desecrate weapons in phase 3
    b) move out from obvious stuff in the ground

    You are aiming to push phase 3 before the third intermission so you only deal with empowered mcs during phase 3, you blow lust in phase 3, forget about adds (your OT picks them up) and just dps as hard as you can while spreading losely for EWC and while stacking for empowered mcs
    If you make it to phase 3 with lust and your bres available, you should have the fight

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Hunter needs to go read the Icy Veins guide. Couple of attempts there was 0 serpent sting ticks and 0 kill commands used in a 7 min fight.

    EDIT: Actually world of logs is fucked. It's not showing these in the individual damage list, but overall you can see it with the pet. More reason to upload your logs to warcraftlogs.com instead. We can't even analyze a fight correctly....
    Last edited by Tharkkun; 2014-03-07 at 03:51 PM.

  13. #13
    Really looks like a lot of folks in there need to brush up on some basic class/spec guides.

    The Warlock never cast Twilight Ward. That is a TON of damage they could have mitigated. Also, Dark Soul is not being used as often as it could be.

    In general I'd also recommend if you guys are struggling, to let the tanks / Iron Star do most of the work on the adds. Only have folks who gain in single target from their aoe do any damage to them whatsoever, and only enough to get that single-target boost, and nothing more when they're close to 50% so the Iron Star / tank can polish them off.

    This will push Garry faster through his phases.

  14. #14
    Your Prot Warrior is of the terribad variety. No concept of Active Mitigation or even longer cooldowns. Doesn't follow the priority rotation that all prot warriors should follow. Waste's his rage on cleave, a spell that should only be cast when you have a proc that makes it free. This guy really has no idea.

  15. #15
    I'm struggling to grasp how your lock managed to only cast NINE chaos bolts on an EIGHT minute fight?!

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItcheeBeard View Post
    I'm struggling to grasp how your lock managed to only cast NINE chaos bolts on an EIGHT minute fight?!
    If the OP still has the combat log, upload it to warcraftlogs. As I noted on the hunter things are missing from the log.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    If the OP still has the combat log, upload it to warcraftlogs. As I noted on the hunter things are missing from the log.
    Nah its probably fine, KC is listed under pet and SS uptime probably just is that bad.

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