1. #1

    Item Level should indicate the difficulty a player has done.

    Just to put a disclaimer on this first. I came back to raiding in MoP from burning out in Ulduar. Did Normal ToT with one group then changed just before Soo to do Heroics and am currently at 13/14h. I think it's great that there a numerous levels of difficulty and that everyone can test themselves to their own skill level.

    What I've found in doing PuG's for normal or flex is that a players ilvl does not meet their perceived skill level. Getting 553 tier from Celestials and 559 items from Ordos along with the 608 from the Legendary Cloak has inflated peoples ilvl far past their experience in LFR or flex. This leads to frustration for others who believe they should be better than they are and from the people themselves who find themselves being raged at or kicked from a group where they met the requirements.

    World Bosses are going to be included in WoD so there is no easy way around this. One solution I can see is for the WB's to drop ilvl gear that is equivalent to the difficulty that the player has cleared. Not perfect I know so it would be great to hear from other people their views on the matter and any changes, if any, that they would make.

  2. #2
    We don't need another simplified number to judge people by, period.
    There are too many flaws already with those already popular measures, item level, dps, scoreboards, achievement points, etc.

    Item level shouldn't be used as a measure of skill.
    If you are trying to rely on that, then you are doing it wrong.

    If people are kicked from a group due to flawed requirements, then it isn't the kicked player at fault.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2014-03-06 at 09:46 PM.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    We don't need another simplified number to judge people by, period.
    There are too many flaws already with those already popular measures, item level, dps, scoreboards, achievement points, etc.

    Item level shouldn't be used as a measure of skill.
    If you are trying to rely on that, then you are doing it wrong.
    Brb while I trial 9 people for a PuG. I don't know why you said 'another' as well, I'm not asking for a separate system.

  4. #4
    The Patient
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    So your complaint is that you've had some bad PUGs? And you want Bliz to assign a way for you to filter people with lesser gear, because you think that will solve the problem? Just making sure I am reading this correctly.

    I see you mention that you burned out in Ulduar, which tells me you might have missed GearScore... which did exactly what you are describing, and did nothing to ensure that a player was decent. Want better PUGs, make better groups. Stop grabbing people based solely on ilvl.
    Here is what you might consider an unexpected truth: The only place where I commonly see elitist assholes is here. I rarely encounter them in the game. The game as portrayed on forums is not the game that most people actually experience. - MoanaLisa

  5. #5
    Elitists and their first world problems.... /facepalm

    On Topic: I think you will find the game has changed drastically in 4.5 years and now caters to a broader audience, primarily comprised of casuals. As a casual myself, I can honestly say your idea is not well formulated and stinks of elitism and the need to segregate players in an MMO. I'm sure there are more hardcore MMOs on the market. You should go find one. I have news for you, this is only the beginning of the everlasting transition into CasualCraft, and I for one, will be happy to see every last elitist who feels the urge to put down others, leave the game so we can get on with playing it. There are some great players in this game. What makes them great is they play the game THEIR way with THEIR guild and they never trash talk casuals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimson View Post
    Want better PUGs, make better groups. Stop grabbing people based solely on ilvl.
    This is the correct answer.

  6. #6
    bring back WoW-heroes, obviously the best choice.
    It's like crossing an intersection. There's shit going on all over the place and you don't panic and act like an idiot then do you?

  7. #7
    Ilvl already does this...

    Full flex gear + crafted 553s and/or celestial tier and cloak has one around 552-553 ilvl. LFR gear plus crafted/celestial/cloak should top out around 541 or 542.

    These are approximations based on toons I have of various gear levels.

  8. #8
    The game has already done too much of this, and it started with gear score in LK. Getting carried Is easy if you have the right friends/guild and is not indicative of skill level, barring certain heroic fights.

    If you're a genuinely good player but gear up slowly due to returning to the game late or having rl get in the way? Too bad noob scrub, lfm for my flex 1 PuG which is technically doable by ilvl 515 but you'd better be 540 and over!

    I've raided since Vanilla and did heroics in Lk, Cata and early MoP but just because I took a 2 patch break from 5.2-5.4, I was fucked three ways to Sunday when trying to gear up again. It happened, but took months of painful lfr and flex pugging followed by a guild actually giving me a chance despite my lower ilvl.

    Discrimination by ilvl shouldn't happen in a group unless someone is blatantly underperforming, as long as they're high enough to complete the content and are properly gemmed/geared/capped. Going by ilvl alone doesn't filter out bad pugs. It's lazy and allows mediocre or even bad players to just coast by as long as they have those precious purples.

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    No. I've had enough of people coming up with stupid ways to harrass, police, and segregate any part of the player population. Seriously, people, get over yourselves. Let other people enjoy the game. If you really want to ensure a specific experience in LFR or a dungeon, MAKE YOUR OWN GROUP.



  10. #10
    ilvl is only useful to baddies leading pugs, what is more useful is logs/achievement dates etc, ofc you're not going to expect logs from a pug, but item level isn't really that useful.

    we had an apply in t14 from a guy with good logs, but too low ilvl for 13/16 hc, but we took him anyway geared him up he was eventually 2nd damage on sha of fear 25 realm first, had him all the way to 13/14 hc in SoO now he's in sanitas. so yeah item level...not useful at all.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Fumu View Post
    The game has already done too much of this, and it started with gear score in LK. Getting carried Is easy if you have the right friends/guild and is not indicative of skill level, barring certain heroic fights.
    Back in BC you had to provide Attack Power or Spell Power to get into PuGs. The measures aren't the issue, it's the community.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    you're likely wrong, and we don't care anyway.
    Source

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    Just to put a disclaimer on this first. I came back to raiding in MoP from burning out in Ulduar. Did Normal ToT with one group then changed just before Soo to do Heroics and am currently at 13/14h. I think it's great that there a numerous levels of difficulty and that everyone can test themselves to their own skill level.

    What I've found in doing PuG's for normal or flex is that a players ilvl does not meet their perceived skill level. Getting 553 tier from Celestials and 559 items from Ordos along with the 608 from the Legendary Cloak has inflated peoples ilvl far past their experience in LFR or flex. This leads to frustration for others who believe they should be better than they are and from the people themselves who find themselves being raged at or kicked from a group where they met the requirements.

    World Bosses are going to be included in WoD so there is no easy way around this. One solution I can see is for the WB's to drop ilvl gear that is equivalent to the difficulty that the player has cleared. Not perfect I know so it would be great to hear from other people their views on the matter and any changes, if any, that they would make.
    Or you could look them up on the armory/ask for a linked achievement to show their experience.

  13. #13
    This doesn't really matter because their ilvl will still be lower than someone whos full normal and especially full heroic geared. It's an average. Not your highest piece.

  14. #14
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    That's why achievements are important to check when putting a pickup-group together. We don't need to change the entire gear system to something that wouldn't make sense anyway and destroy expansion progression.
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  15. #15
    Epic! Lime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khorm View Post
    What I've found in doing PuG's for normal or flex is that a players ilvl does not meet their perceived skill level.
    Pretty much stopped reading right here. As someone who often grabs members due to ilvl, I can tell you that it has absolutely nothing to do with skill. I merely take them because it means that they have at least done certain fights, usually repeatedly, and I don't have the time to run trials for group spots. However, if I'm in a group with someone with a low ilvl and they seem to know their stuff, I'll remember them for when I'm making a group.

    ilvl =/= skill

    On topic: No, we don't need this.

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  16. #16
    No...In my past raiding experience even being back in a "hardcore" raiding guild who was top Horde on the server at the time there are still people who do difficult content and still manage to screw the pooch and be bad.

    I've known, and have been in the position of having crap luck on getting any items. I've been doing SoO for awhile now and still the only set bonus I've been lucky enough to get was from Celestials, and because of this for the longest time no group would bother taking me until I reached a certain number.

    The tools at your disposal don't guarantee a good player, it's why PUGing is risky. You can end up with someone who has a high iLv and they have the reaction time of a potato, or take a chance on a low iLv player and bam, they excel.

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