Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Orgrimmar
    Posts
    8,132

    The stat squish is more comparable to early wrath leveling at 90.

    This thread may seem to make no sense to some people, and if you are one of those people, please ignore it. This thread is for the people that are complaining that Blizzard didn't squish enough, and thinking we are going to have Cata-higher than cata stats at 100. Like Dragon Soul gear in the first tier.

    TLDR: Blizzard squished a bit lower then most people think. Expect Tier 17 gear to have stats like Late Wrath raid gear/early cata questing gear

    People are thinking that just because a dps has 40+k hp that our dps will be around early cataclysm leveling dps. If you compare gear from this video below. You will see that besides the stamina, "Which they are messing with again in Wod" is around a 72-75 wrath green peice at 90.

    So,if the dps stats stay at around the same value, you can probably expect Purples in tier 17 to be at around Deepholme questing gear.
    I expect we will have around 5-10k dps in the first tier of WoD. Which is a decent bit under Cataclysm. Since they squished this much, I think we can expect to wait 3 expansions before we see another squish.



    The chest peice at 1:01 in the video has 75 stamina, 50 agility, and 66 secondary stats.

    This has 54 stamina, 55 agility, and 38 secondary stats. Not a perfect match I know, but if everything we know in the game today stays similar, they squishes further down then people though.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Last edited by Chickat; 2014-03-07 at 04:14 AM.
    Send me a PM and suggest a forum avatar based on my title, Immortal.

  2. #2
    Moderator aiko-chan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Orem, UT
    Posts
    5,665
    I didn't get to play nearly enough at BlizzCon, but during that build in the gear they gave us I would say I was doing around 6k-8k dps (no Recount obviously, so I'm going off of what I think I remember my abilities doing). If that is the case it puts us around mid-WotLk. If they don't deliver on the promise to reduce scaling it will be the same thing all over again. xD
    Do you play SimCity 5? Come join us on the MMO Champion Regions!
    My Origin friends list is full but hit me up by PM if you want to build a city with me.

  3. #3
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Orgrimmar
    Posts
    8,132
    I imagine raid gear in the first tier will have stats similar to icc. like this. http://www.wowhead.com/item=50970
    Send me a PM and suggest a forum avatar based on my title, Immortal.

  4. #4
    They are probably tuning it more because the HP doesn't really match up with what you'd expect the damage to be. You're talking probably lvl 87 from cata HP and pre-cata damage

  5. #5
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Orgrimmar
    Posts
    8,132
    Quote Originally Posted by aikoyamamato View Post
    I didn't get to play nearly enough at BlizzCon, but during that build in the gear they gave us I would say I was doing around 6k-8k dps (no Recount obviously, so I'm going off of what I think I remember my abilities doing). If that is the case it puts us around mid-WotLk. If they don't deliver on the promise to reduce scaling it will be the same thing all over again. xD
    The stats you had at blizzcon unless it has changed since then wouldn't allow you to do 6-8k dps imo. You had gear similar to grizzly hills questing gear. I would expect you to have been doing 1-3k dps. of course dps goes up every expansion even when using the same gear, but i still don't see how you will be doing 6k dps in grizzly hills greens.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Incredibale View Post
    They are probably tuning it more because the HP doesn't really match up with what you'd expect the damage to be. You're talking probably lvl 87 from cata HP and pre-cata damage
    Yes, you cant really use the stamina to judge the gear. Im using base dps stats. The agility on that hunters gear is around 72-75 wrath questing gear. So i expct the first raid tier to have Toc-icc- or early cata questing stats.
    Send me a PM and suggest a forum avatar based on my title, Immortal.

  6. #6
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jaina Proudmoore's side. Always and forever.
    Posts
    24,651
    Seems like it's going to be like Pre ICC 10 man level of DPS.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  7. #7
    I think the dps will be wrath level while health will be cata level....I guess they will be doing this because they wanted to get rid of resistance or w/e pvp crap is lol but a lot of it will also depend on how they modify the spells compared to your stats

  8. #8
    I think it's too early to look at dps numbers since they didn't even started messing with ability bloat, rotations and stuff on the build used on those videos.

  9. #9
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Orgrimmar
    Posts
    8,132
    If we look at the weapons. http://www.wowhead.com/item=38208 from Boreon Tundra has around the same stats as the bow the hunter in the video has. It seems like the stat level is going to range anywhere from Ulduar-ICC, or even possibly very early cata questing rewards.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gahk View Post
    I think it's too early to look at dps numbers since they didn't even started messing with ability bloat, rotations and stuff on the build used on those videos.
    We are just comparing the stat levels on the gear at the moment.
    Send me a PM and suggest a forum avatar based on my title, Immortal.

  10. #10
    Moderator aiko-chan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Orem, UT
    Posts
    5,665
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    The stats you had at blizzcon unless it has changed since then wouldn't allow you to do 6-8k dps imo. You had gear similar to grizzly hills questing gear. I would expect you to have been doing 1-3k dps. of course dps goes up every expansion even when using the same gear, but i still don't see how you will be doing 6k dps in grizzly hills greens.
    You could be right, I can't say for sure. I know I was getting over 10k crits as a hunter (I talked to my friends about it I know that for sure). Assuming like 12-15k crits, taking the marksmanship rotation into consideration, it would be around 4-6k.

    Napkin math doesn't really matter though, as I'm going off of imaginary numbers I only think I remember from BlizzCon. ><
    I have not analyzed any of the recent videos. We should revisit this discussion when beta is out.
    Do you play SimCity 5? Come join us on the MMO Champion Regions!
    My Origin friends list is full but hit me up by PM if you want to build a city with me.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by aikoyamamato View Post
    I didn't get to play nearly enough at BlizzCon, but during that build in the gear they gave us I would say I was doing around 6k-8k dps (no Recount obviously, so I'm going off of what I think I remember my abilities doing). If that is the case it puts us around mid-WotLk. If they don't deliver on the promise to reduce scaling it will be the same thing all over again. xD
    They will always have to do another item squish every 2 or 3 expansion. They fully accept that. It doesn´t mean they are doing anything wrong.

    You need to have progression as you level from 90 to 100, different difficulties of raids need higher ilvls.. and each tier of raiding within an expansion needs to have higher ilvl gear than the previous tier. Gear inflation ALWAYS needs to happen within a given expansion, and it always is going to be a significant amount. It is no big deal.

    But after that expansion becomes old, then it no longer needs that inflation and can be squished. LK does not need to drop higher level gear than Naxx ( at this point in the game´s life).

    In 3 years, the gear we get from the 6.4 raids does not need to have higher ilvls than the 6.0 raids.

    People need to get this through your thick heads. Having to do a squish does not mean Blizzard made a mistake. Having to do ANOTHER squish in 3-4 years does not mean they are making a mistake with this one. The fact is the way this game is set up, with different difficulties of raids, and 3 or 4 different raid tiers within each expansion means gear inflation is going to happen, it is part of the game and is needed to make the game fun and for their to be meaningful progression for current content.

  12. #12
    none of it matters, the squish, our dps numbers. meh.
    Quote Originally Posted by inboundpaper View Post
    The short answer is nope, the long answer is noooooooooooooooope.

  13. #13
    Moderator aiko-chan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Orem, UT
    Posts
    5,665
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    They will always have to do another item squish every 2 or 3 expansion. They fully accept that. It doesn´t mean they are doing anything wrong.
    It's kind of interesting what happened with ilevel scaling.

    Tier (ilevel) +difference between last tier piece:
    Tier 1 (66)
    Tier 2 (76) +10
    Tier 3 (86) +10
    iLVL jump: 20

    Tier 4 (120)
    Tier 5 (133) +13
    Tier 6 (146) +13
    iLVL jump: 26

    Tier 7 10M (200)
    Tier 7 25M (213) +13
    Tier 8 10M (219) +6
    Tier 8 25M (226) +7
    Tier 9 10M (232) +6
    Tier 9 10M-H/25M (245) +13
    Tier 9 25M-H (258) +13
    Tier 10 10M (251) -7
    Tier 10 10M-H/25M (264) +8
    Tier 10 25M-H (277) +13
    iLVL jump: 77

    Tier 11 N (359)
    Tier 11 H (372) +13
    Tier 12 N (378) +6
    Tier 12 H (391) +13
    Tier 13 N (397) +6
    Tier 13 H (410) +13
    iLVL jump: 51

    Tier 14 N (496)
    Tier 14 H (509) +13
    Tier 15 N (522) +13
    Tier 15 H (535) +13
    Tier 16 N (553) +18
    Tier 16 H (566) +13
    iLVL jump: 70

    This is all to say that they let the item levels get out of control. I don't really blame them, they tried to keep the scaling consistent. It just got all screwed up with the addition of so many modes. The difference between a tier in vanilla was 10. The difference between T14 N and T15 N is 26. T 15 N and T 16 N has a difference of 31.
    Last edited by aiko-chan; 2014-03-07 at 05:02 AM.
    Do you play SimCity 5? Come join us on the MMO Champion Regions!
    My Origin friends list is full but hit me up by PM if you want to build a city with me.

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Frogspoison#1419 Battletag
    Posts
    4,138
    Remeber that we will continue to have exponential stat growth at max level. It seems as though we may have starter-cata health, but with bout half start cata dps (Health pools seem to be increasing at a much larger rate then damage)
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  15. #15
    What also might not be accounted for is how much/little the stats provide as far as base value and scale. If I lost you, let me provide Stamina as an example:

    Currently when we gain stamina in gear, that's obviously not the amount of health we get, it's much higher. Blizzard could also have scaled the value of the new stats down, which would also make the stat squish much more of a cut than some might realize. Even if we had ICC levels of stats, if they scaled much lower than our current model, we won't have ICC levels of health, it will be much lower.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    If we look at the weapons. http://www.wowhead.com/item=38208 from Boreon Tundra has around the same stats as the bow the hunter in the video has. It seems like the stat level is going to range anywhere from Ulduar-ICC, or even possibly very early cata questing rewards.

    - - - Updated - - -



    We are just comparing the stat levels on the gear at the moment.
    The bow that the hunter has in the video is only ilevel 500. Do you realize my monk is ilevel 574 and that some people in full warforged heroics have 581 ilevel?

    We know FOR SURE that the legendary cloaks are not going to be BiS or anywhere near viable at level 100, thanks to blue posts. This means level 100 epics are going to have to be CONSIDERABLY higher ilevel than 600, because the cloaks have 3 secondary stats and a gem socket on them, whereas a tier 17 raid epic cloak will probably have only 2 secondaries and no gem socket.

    My guess is that raid epics in WoD for Tier 17 will most likely be around ilevel 680+, in order to make sure the power between end game MoP heroics and first tier WoD epics stays large enough.

    Long story short, the bow that hunter has in that video is probably at LEAST 150 to 180 ilevels LOWER than what you will see for epics in the very first tier of WoD raiding, meaning the stat difference is going to be VERY large.

    I am without a doubt in my mind CERTAIN that we are going to look at, at the very LEAST, early cataclysm numbers both on the dps AND the health side, if not slightly more.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky_b View Post
    What also might not be accounted for is how much/little the stats provide as far as base value and scale. If I lost you, let me provide Stamina as an example:

    Currently when we gain stamina in gear, that's obviously not the amount of health we get, it's much higher. Blizzard could also have scaled the value of the new stats down, which would also make the stat squish much more of a cut than some might realize. Even if we had ICC levels of stats, if they scaled much lower than our current model, we won't have ICC levels of health, it will be much lower.
    There's also the changes to scaling of abilities. Where in Wrath, we had abilities mostly doing "x base damage + y weapon damage * 0.a weapon damage modifier + b attack power * 0.z attack power modifier" damage, now almost all ability damage is "x% weapon damage + y attack power * z attack power modifier"

    This is a significant change to the amount of damage that can be dealt at that level. It's not uncommon to see a not-well-geared player questing in Wrath doing over 5k now. That was entry level ICC damage back in the day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If a building's about to collapse, you can debate whether it's better to demolish it or repair it, and you can make political-agenda arguments either way. Disputing gravity itself to claim it won't fall down is not a political position, it's just ignorance.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    The bow that the hunter has in the video is only ilevel 500. Do you realize my monk is ilevel 574 and that some people in full warforged heroics have 581 ilevel?

    We know FOR SURE that the legendary cloaks are not going to be BiS or anywhere near viable at level 100, thanks to blue posts. This means level 100 epics are going to have to be CONSIDERABLY higher ilevel than 600, because the cloaks have 3 secondary stats and a gem socket on them, whereas a tier 17 raid epic cloak will probably have only 2 secondaries and no gem socket.

    My guess is that raid epics in WoD for Tier 17 will most likely be around ilevel 680+, in order to make sure the power between end game MoP heroics and first tier WoD epics stays large enough.

    Long story short, the bow that hunter has in that video is probably at LEAST 150 to 180 ilevels LOWER than what you will see for epics in the very first tier of WoD raiding, meaning the stat difference is going to be VERY large.

    I am without a doubt in my mind CERTAIN that we are going to look at, at the very LEAST, early cataclysm numbers both on the dps AND the health side, if not slightly more.
    The mop gear won't have tertiary stats though, which we aren't sure just yet how strong they'll be.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Recondition View Post
    The mop gear won't have tertiary stats though, which we aren't sure just yet how strong they'll be.
    Not at all. Cleave was removed, that only leaves a handful of defensive-ish stats and movement speed.


    Avoidance (reduced area effect damage taken)
    Inspiration (heal on damage received)
    Leech: (heal on damage dealt) Works off every hit.[26]
    Speed: Movement Speed is changing to be calculated additively [from multiplicatively], and most movement speed buffs will stack.[27] For example, two separate 50% movement speed increases on you will result in 200% movement speed, not 225%.[28]
    Sturdiness (reduced durability damage)
    Currently trying to experiences all classes at 100. Count so far: 3.

  20. #20
    Also probably to make sure that bosses abilties hit more in comparison to what a player can do, and thus increase the stress on healers.
    Check out my youtube channel of fail: http://www.youtube.com/EliteRocketbear

    8/8Hc DS

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •