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  1. #41
    The ONLY reason that I still used WoL for the majority of this tier was their expression editor. The real power of logs was never simple DPS reports (you can get those through in-game addons) - but being able to view raw logs and reconstruct what happened during a fight.

    Until yesterday, I didn't notice they had updated it (haven't had to check much since progression is well over), but from just playing around with it, WCL's new(ish) pins system is actually enormously more powerful once you get used to the syntax.

    There's really no reason to use WoL anymore, but people are just used to it since the name is synonymous with "logs" right now. I suspect it'll go the way of WWS when 6.0 hits and everything breaks.
    Shandaren, Brewmaster/Recruitment Officer of <Might> of US-Zul'jin (14/14H, 3 days/10 hours per week).

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanberry
    The ONLY reason that I still used WoL for the majority of this tier was their expression editor. The real power of logs was never simple DPS reports (you can get those through in-game addons) - but being able to view raw logs and reconstruct what happened during a fight.
    Yeah, I should probably make a front page post explaining that the Expression Pins are implemented. Our expression syntax is actually far more powerful than WoL's, since we have implemented primitives for arbitrary range checking, so e.g., you can build a giant filtering expression that tells you who did useful damage on Paragons and filter out all the padding damage.

    Query pins have range checking too, although it's limited to testing aura presence/absence. That's still quite powerful, since it lets you see who damaged Nazgrim in Defensive Stance for example. (Again, WoL cannot do this in its log browser.)
    Creator of Warcraft Logs, feral druid in Temerity

  3. #43
    World of logs have always been broken. If you want real data about which classes/specs are best for what then you have to do run the mathematical data calculations yourself and see for yourself which class/spec is better for what.

    WOL has always been shit. Real data comes from calculations and mathematical reports which require careful studying and evaluations of the specific class or spec. It's not from meter padding.

  4. #44
    Does anyone know if Epeen is going to work with WCL soon?

    Epeen is almost mandatory at a high level, and the only reason my guild logs both WoL & WCL is because Epeen only uses WoL.

    WCL is vastly superior in almost every way.

  5. #45
    Of course there's a few parses where people DC or do something really weird but on the whole the vast majority of parses are legit and if you're actually good at your spec you will be ranking all the time. I've never understood where the circle jerk bandwagon comes from that talks shit about people padding and that's where all the ranks come from and that's why good players like themselves never rank not to say there aren't valid complaints in some cases but that particular attitude is quite annoying

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Kihra View Post
    Yeah, I should probably make a front page post explaining that the Expression Pins are implemented. Our expression syntax is actually far more powerful than WoL's, since we have implemented primitives for arbitrary range checking, so e.g., you can build a giant filtering expression that tells you who did useful damage on Paragons and filter out all the padding damage.

    Query pins have range checking too, although it's limited to testing aura presence/absence. That's still quite powerful, since it lets you see who damaged Nazgrim in Defensive Stance for example. (Again, WoL cannot do this in its log browser.)
    Have you contacted epeenbot and ProRaiders to include you?

  7. #47
    Brewmaster durrtygoodz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesmarcus View Post
    Have you contacted epeenbot and ProRaiders to include you?
    ProRaiders already do and I'm sure epeenbot will soon.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kihra View Post
    Yeah, I should probably make a front page post explaining that the Expression Pins are implemented. Our expression syntax is actually far more powerful than WoL's, since we have implemented primitives for arbitrary range checking, so e.g., you can build a giant filtering expression that tells you who did useful damage on Paragons and filter out all the padding damage.
    Sorry for the offtopic but this is something I would be very much interested in knowing how to exactly do. I tried using the pins for a while but couldn't really get them to do what I wanted.

  9. #49
    Use Warcraft Logs or better yet don't use either, they just promote unhealthy behavior anyway. Did you kill the boss? Good. No one should care how fast or who got the luckiest procs or best opening or any other contrived nonsense.

  10. #50
    Brewmaster durrtygoodz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frymastermeat View Post
    Use Warcraft Logs or better yet don't use either, they just promote unhealthy behavior anyway. Did you kill the boss? Good. No one should care how fast or who got the luckiest procs or best opening or any other contrived nonsense.
    Well that's just like, your opinion maaaan

  11. #51
    quit using world of logs when i got robbed of two rank 1s in the same night because 95% of the logs on there are exploited, use warcraft logs.
    Last edited by asil; 2014-03-08 at 08:03 PM.

  12. #52
    lots of bugs, keep up to speed with their competitors as they are far superior.

  13. #53
    Well, WCL bugs out time to time too. I was logging paragons heroic kill last week and I had 620k dps at the end of fight (in WoL) and 720k on WCL (bugged and recorded only last 4 mins of the fight , where last 4 bosses are up). So it looks like I got a cheated rank 1 on WCL but when you go and check WoL it is actually a legit rank 1.

    No idea why that happens tho

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by frymastermeat View Post
    Use Warcraft Logs or better yet don't use either, they just promote unhealthy behavior anyway. Did you kill the boss? Good. No one should care how fast or who got the luckiest procs or best opening or any other contrived nonsense.
    Except that's not the main reason log sites exist - it's for immediate feedback on how a pull went, checking what went wrong, who padded etc. Ranks are just something extra that (sadly) most people care about more than the actual log.
    Frozendruid of Temerity - 14/14HC @ 12 hours/week.

  15. #55
    Herald of the Titans Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okay View Post
    World of logs have always been broken. If you want real data about which classes/specs are best for what then you have to do run the mathematical data calculations yourself and see for yourself which class/spec is better for what.

    WOL has always been shit. Real data comes from calculations and mathematical reports which require careful studying and evaluations of the specific class or spec. It's not from meter padding.
    WOL was referenced by Developers when you wanted to provide data to them. GC himself used it as a source of truth. But this last expansion it's gone to hell.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by frymastermeat View Post
    Use Warcraft Logs or better yet don't use either, they just promote unhealthy behavior anyway. Did you kill the boss? Good. No one should care how fast or who got the luckiest procs or best opening or any other contrived nonsense.
    I and the the majority people use it to improve your personal performance. For example, f I see my serpent sting is only up 75% of the time on a fight but I notice that's consistent with others then I don't need to improve. I can also check if I'm lining up my bestial wrath correctly with trinkets post fight.

    Of course you can also use it as a tool for guild mates who are willing to take constructive criticism. Or you can flex your epeen to people who don't care.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by frymastermeat View Post
    Use Warcraft Logs or better yet don't use either, they just promote unhealthy behavior anyway. Did you kill the boss? Good. No one should care how fast or who got the luckiest procs or best opening or any other contrived nonsense.
    You missed the reason most people use logs. Self improvement.

    Post less, think more!

  17. #57
    Logs are an extremely powerfull and important tool for any decent guild. Recently I tested the replay feature of warcraftlogs.com and its amazing. Thok suddenly switched to phase 2 because someone moved between the groups? Check the replay and you know exactly who! Its somewhat annoying to learn the way this website works again when I was so used to the expression editor in worldoflogs. Oh well, I will have to spend a few hours figuring out how it all works I guess.

    I completely understand the fun of rankings aswell, but they promote bad play (and yes, padding always is bad play). Altho I believe in the end its better to have motivated ambitious players that try to rank then to have players that simply dont care at all. As long as these players dont pad during progress I dont really mind that much.

  18. #58
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    wowwebstats!!!

    :P

    I've moved over to WCL and haven't looked back. I encourage all frost mages looking to me for help to also use WCL. Much easier to analyze decision making and provide help!

  19. #59
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    I can't tell weither you are serious or not since Thotbott by itself doesn't exist anymore, all the information is read from Wowhead...kinda normal since it was bought over.
    Very serious. I still use Icy Weapon as an enchant too because it has the coolest glow.
    "Wrong. Deterrence deflects 100% of Iron Prison (Not tomb) dmg." -Jaydenkor, 2014


  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by frymastermeat View Post
    Use Warcraft Logs or better yet don't use either, they just promote unhealthy behavior anyway. Did you kill the boss? Good. No one should care how fast or who got the luckiest procs or best opening or any other contrived nonsense.
    Not optimizing your opening could mean a major difference in the long run, and it's not "nonsense".

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