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  1. #21
    Blademaster Nasirah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    Disc
    -----
    Prayer of Healing
    Spirit Shell Prayer of Healing
    Prayer of Mending
    Offensive Penance (3 Medium Smart Heals 40 yards)
    Lvl 90
    New Disc Stronger Holy Nova (Moves with raid, aka Spinning Crane Kick)

    Holy
    -----
    Prayer of Healing
    Prayer of Mending
    Circle of Healing (5-6 Smaller Smart Heals 20 yards)
    Lvl 90
    Holy Word: Sanctuary (Weakest AE heal stuck in 1 spot for 1 min, considered pointless to cast outside T16)

    You really think Disc has weak AoE? Holy actually has less now, which is probably why they had to make the talent that turns Greater Heal into an AoE, but now Holy Priests have to lose a talent for competitive AoE or go Disc.
    This is definitely not true, currently disc has no weakness with AoE healing that's correct, but saying that Holy has less AoE? Holy is potentially one of the strongest AoE healers currently in the game, the problem is just that in the current environment Holy is lacking the smart/passive AoE healing that other healers get so they're consistently beaten to the punch turning most of their throughput into overhealing.

    With the changes to smart healing and atonement, penance potentially won't function like it does now, the amount atonement is going to restore is being hinted to be lower than what it currently is and the random targeting being implemented for smart healing is going to mean it's not guaranteed to hit the lowest health raid/party member. If they do make PoH our high throughput AoE heal that's going to limit the amount we can cast it because of mana limitations so it's only going to be used for periods of high AoE damage. These changes leave disc without an efficient AoE heal that all other healing classes have, including holy's CoH and more potent renews. Holy Nova will also not be as strong as a monks SCK, Blizzard is categorizing that as a monk's high throughput AoE. I'd imagine it will be more akin to CoH or LoDs output, the only issue I see with the new Holy Nova is that every other classes efficient AoEs have some form of throttle on them, be it a CD, holy power, or being a HoT where the healing done is high but not instant. The current information about Holy Nova doesn't include any throttle, instant cast, no CD, it will just presumably be location based which is easily enough worked around.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    Disc
    -----
    Prayer of Healing
    Spirit Shell Prayer of Healing
    Prayer of Mending
    Offensive Penance (3 Medium Smart Heals 40 yards)
    Lvl 90
    New Disc Stronger Holy Nova (Moves with raid, aka Spinning Crane Kick)

    Holy
    -----
    Prayer of Healing
    Prayer of Mending
    Circle of Healing (5-6 Smaller Smart Heals 20 yards)
    Lvl 90
    Holy Word: Sanctuary (Weakest AE heal stuck in 1 spot for 1 min, considered pointless to cast outside T16)

    You really think Disc has weak AoE? Holy actually has less now, which is probably why they had to make the talent that turns Greater Heal into an AoE, but now Holy Priests have to lose a talent for competitive AoE or go Disc.
    just personal opinion. i wouldnt say spirit shell+ prayer of healing is a heal since if some one is low on health and it is used it isnt really healing them.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    Disc
    -----
    Prayer of Healing
    Spirit Shell Prayer of Healing
    Prayer of Mending
    Offensive Penance (3 Medium Smart Heals 40 yards)
    Lvl 90
    New Disc Stronger Holy Nova (Moves with raid, aka Spinning Crane Kick)

    Holy
    -----
    Prayer of Healing
    Prayer of Mending
    Circle of Healing (5-6 Smaller Smart Heals 20 yards)
    Lvl 90
    Holy Word: Sanctuary (Weakest AE heal stuck in 1 spot for 1 min, considered pointless to cast outside T16)

    You really think Disc has weak AoE? Holy actually has less now, which is probably why they had to make the talent that turns Greater Heal into an AoE, but now Holy Priests have to lose a talent for competitive AoE or go Disc.
    Disc does have weak AoE, it is just masked by the uncapped nature of the L90 talents which won't be hanging around for WoD. Remove that and you have what, Prayer of Healing (listing it with Spirit Shell doesn't make it a different heal) as a true AoE heal which currently suffers from being group bound and PoM and Atonement as pseudo-AoE heals.

    Come WoD a disc priest would have Prayer of Healing and much less intelligent PoM and Penance without being given Holy Nova. That doesn't really make a brilliant AoE toolset.

  4. #24
    Nope. Not buying it. The spells are all there for Disc to AoE and they do it better than any other healer in MoP currently.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    Nope. Not buying it. The spells are all there for Disc to AoE and they do it better than any other healer in MoP currently.
    Theres your problem right there. You are considering MoP (or rather, SoO) in which case discipline appears to have a decent AoE toolset arising purely from the broken nature of the L90 talents (which are being nerfed, along with Atonement). It is somewhat spurious to talk about the problem regarding future AoE situations if you only want to consider how things are currently.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    Nope. Not buying it. The spells are all there for Disc to AoE and they do it better than any other healer in MoP currently.
    Sorry, I fail to see how disc (been playing since Ulduar) priests are supposed to have the best AoE. They used to have the worst AoE back in wotlk and even Cataclysm. Now there AoE healing is ok at best - having major drawbacks. They basically rely on the lvl90 talents and their overpowered mana regen to do any useful AoE. Nerf those 2 aspects (Blizzard's plan), and Disc AoE takes a major blow.

    I am really excited about the announced changes. I currently really dislike disc healing and would reroll in WoD if it weren't for these cool changes, making disc finally more challenging and interesting.

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord b2121945's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    Disc
    -----
    Prayer of Healing
    Spirit Shell Prayer of Healing
    Prayer of Mending
    Offensive Penance (3 Medium Smart Heals 40 yards)
    Lvl 90
    New Disc Stronger Holy Nova (Moves with raid, aka Spinning Crane Kick)
    Hi.

    6.0:
    PoH - you can't even nerf it because it's so shit currently
    SS+PoH - absorbs reduced (NERF)
    PoM - cast time (NERF)
    Off Penance - smart healing no longer smart (NERF)
    L90 - heals for less, even though it's OP only in 25M (NERF)

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by b2121945 View Post
    Hi.
    Off Penance - smart healing no longer smart (NERF)
    Atonement components will also heal for less than standard efficient heals.

  9. #29
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    Disc
    -----
    Prayer of Healing
    Spirit Shell Prayer of Healing
    Prayer of Mending
    Offensive Penance (3 Medium Smart Heals 40 yards)
    Lvl 90
    New Disc Stronger Holy Nova (Moves with raid, aka Spinning Crane Kick)

    Holy
    -----
    Prayer of Healing
    Prayer of Mending
    Circle of Healing (5-6 Smaller Smart Heals 20 yards)
    Lvl 90
    Holy Word: Sanctuary (Weakest AE heal stuck in 1 spot for 1 min, considered pointless to cast outside T16)

    You really think Disc has weak AoE? Holy actually has less now, which is probably why they had to make the talent that turns Greater Heal into an AoE, but now Holy Priests have to lose a talent for competitive AoE or go Disc.
    Except at lvl100 Disc gets a shitty single target shield where Holy gets a paladin's Holy Radiance.

  10. #30
    Legendary! muto's Avatar
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    Would rather have Holy Nova replace Mind Sear for Holy and Disc.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by gorkos View Post
    just personal opinion. i wouldnt say spirit shell+ prayer of healing is a heal since if some one is low on health and it is used it isnt really healing them.
    Doesn't matter. If someone drops to 20k health, and you put a 40k shield on them, they can take 60k damage before they die.

    If someone drops to 20k health and you heal them for 40k, they can still take 60k damage before they die. "Isn't really healing them" is irrelevant, both increase their effective health. One simply has a duration (which in current content is mostly irrelevant).
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Amezea View Post
    Theres your problem right there. You are considering MoP (or rather, SoO) in which case discipline appears to have a decent AoE toolset arising purely from the broken nature of the L90 talents (which are being nerfed, along with Atonement). It is somewhat spurious to talk about the problem regarding future AoE situations if you only want to consider how things are currently.
    My posts were in response to someone who said that finally Disc would get some AoE love, implying they don't currently have decent AoE, in current content.
    Last edited by Darkener; 2014-03-09 at 12:46 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    My posts were in response to someone who said that finally Disc would get some AoE love, implying they don't currently have decent AoE, in current content.
    They do, on the surface, due to the L90 talents. The other apparently AoE healing tools really aren't potent enough unless content is being considerably overgeared.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    Nope. Not buying it. The spells are all there for Disc to AoE and they do it better than any other healer in MoP currently.
    This surely cannot be a serious comment. Claiming that disc is the best AoE healer out there at the moment is just fundamentally incorrect.

    If we're not the worst, we're one of the worst at AoE healing.

  15. #35
    DracoDraco posted a really accurate analysis describing why disc toolkit is actually subpar when it comes to aoe healing and why it could be envisionned good in SoO context.
    I don't remember where it is though, and, sadly, the thread changed somewhere into an argument where hpallies where unplayable and disc was OP. Again...

  16. #36
    Disc is great at preventing Aoe damage, but it's really lacking when you need to Aoe heal people up. That's why it works well with pure healers. You can get by though with PoH and one of the Tier 90 talents.

    If they're nerfing absorbs my guess is Disc will need a decent AoE heal to remain competitive. I just hope our absorbs don't become so weak that we're watered down and start to resemble every other healer.

    Holy spec also has Lightspring and Divine Hymn that surely count as AoE healing spells.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    Disc
    -----
    Prayer of Healing
    Spirit Shell Prayer of Healing
    Prayer of Mending
    Offensive Penance (3 Medium Smart Heals 40 yards)
    Lvl 90
    New Disc Stronger Holy Nova (Moves with raid, aka Spinning Crane Kick)

    Holy
    -----
    Prayer of Healing
    Prayer of Mending
    Circle of Healing (5-6 Smaller Smart Heals 20 yards)
    Lvl 90
    Holy Word: Sanctuary (Weakest AE heal stuck in 1 spot for 1 min, considered pointless to cast outside T16)

    You really think Disc has weak AoE? Holy actually has less now, which is probably why they had to make the talent that turns Greater Heal into an AoE, but now Holy Priests have to lose a talent for competitive AoE or go Disc.
    The powerful classes in WoD will be the ones with big HoTs and big ST heals; of which disc has neither.

    They're nerfing atonement and they're diminishing the value of absorbs by buffing everybody's HP. Currently Disc ST heals are fairly week. Add all that together and it looks like Disc will be the weakest healing class by a long way unless HN ends up being useful.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Bench333 View Post
    The powerful classes in WoD will be the ones with big HoTs and big ST heals; of which disc has neither.

    They're nerfing atonement and they're diminishing the value of absorbs by buffing everybody's HP. Currently Disc ST heals are fairly week. Add all that together and it looks like Disc will be the weakest healing class by a long way unless HN ends up being useful.
    If the current implementation of DA remains I hope we don't see encounters where we need to remove someone above a certain raw health threshold. Either we will need an ability that can't generate DA or encounters will need to be based upon effective health. Communicating how much someone has of the latter with the standard UI (and from which source it has been given) could get messy.

  19. #39
    I actually see a bright future for Disc (and Holy) in WoD. Whereas you only needed one in 10-man heroic raiding you will probably want two in Mythic 20-man each covering 10 players. Disc will still be desireable for absorbs, with any nerf to absorbs being compensated by healing to keep things balanced. With an improved Holy spec Priest healers dual-spec'd Disc/Holy (as many of us are) can basically pick what is best per boss, throughput or absorb/utility. Priest healers, particularly ones who have mastered both healing specs, will have an advantage, perhaps getting 2 of only 4 healing slots.

  20. #40
    What I understood from the healing watercooler is that they won't significantly change absorb mechanics. They're just going to decrease absorbs efficiency and rework healing specs that heavily rely on them (Hpal and Disc) in order for them to still be viable. Maybe something like 75% heal and 25% absorb overall.

    About encounters now based upon effective health (where effective health = health + shield ; am I right ?). I think that's an interesting idea that could lead to some new mechanics (although I can't imagine one right now) and I wouldn't mind that but don't you think it could affect the flavour, even the diversity of some encounters ? (I'm not beeing sarcastic in any way, I really want posters' opinion on the matter)
    I mean another chimaeron like fight would supposedly still be a big PitA for a disc priest and an EDC scarab lord P3 fight could make us shine. But to me those different mechanics add depth to the game so I'd rather go with a bigass heal that can't generate DA and keep those mechanics.

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