Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Drytoast]

At some point the servers are going to get massively overhauled anyway. The server merges are merely the beginning of the process.

Once WoW gets down to a couple million people, they will need to do something anyway. And 2 million people will still generate more than enough money to afford the change.

I have "no horse in this race". I played on predominantly PvE servers over the course of my WoW time. The 2 PvP servers that I was on with alts both favored the factions that I played (by a lot) so the WPvP never really affected me, hardly at all.

By that point the dev crew that's working on updating WoW will also be decreasing in size, as the majority will be rolling onto making the next big thing.

That's just common sense. They will milk the most out of wow for the least amount of work. Making new server types is NOT a small amount of work. So if you are a wpvp hopeful wishing for big changes from blizzard to make wpvp have more incentive than instanced pvp...well you are in for an awfully long...LONG wait.

(this means get comfy with server factions being skewed drastically as players actively work to avoid any kind of shit that slows down character progression)

[Mafic]

More people in the world? Doubtful after the majority hits 100. More PvP? Doubtful. (a) The majority of players are on PvE realms, (b) many PvP realm players have no interest in world PvP and actively avoid it. Sure, some folks enjoy it, but not many obviously, or people would you know actually be doing it.

Also, it is not speculation actually. People will live in the capitals and their garissons and play World of Quecraft once they hit max level. Max level questing still sucks, based on many many reports from beta testers. Flight paths still suck, again based on reports from many, many beta testers. We will see in WoD the same thing we did in every previous expansion, for the vast majority of players once they ding max level, questing is done and they move on to max level content. Scenarios, Dungeons, Heroics, LFR, etc.

The exception being this time, no one will be able to fly at max, making world travel still incredibly tedious, which will end up causing even more people to sit in cities and queue for stuff, rather than be in the world.

Its already happened on beta. This is not really a surprise or up for debate anymore. The beta test has already proved out what we've been saying forever. No flying is going to be bad for the game and it was pointless to remove it in WoD.

+1 Well said and good post.

Let me add that the time sinks have been added across the board so the removal of flight is simply piling on the time it takes to play the game as people see fit.

[Wingspan]

By that point the dev crew that's working on updating WoW will also be decreasing in size, as the majority will be rolling onto making the next big thing.

That's just common sense. They will milk the most out of wow for the least amount of work. Making new server types is NOT a small amount of work. So if you are a wpvp hopeful wishing for big changes from blizzard to make wpvp have more incentive than instanced pvp...well you are in for an awfully long...LONG wait.

(this means get comfy with server factions being skewed drastically as players actively work to avoid any kind of shit that slows down character progression)

While I don't entirely disagree with you, I should point out that there are games out there generating FAR less money than 2 million subscribers would that actually employ this technology.

It would be an expensive re-tooing (no doubt), but still WELL within the realm of possibility. Added on to the fact that as the game dwindles, more and more server merging in inevitable anyway, it is not such a crazy idea.

I am not saying they WILL do it (really, who knows), just that all evidence seems to suggest it as a possible avenue to explore.

[Varabently]

+1 Well said and good post.

Let me add that the time sinks have been added across the board so the removal of flight is simply piling on the time it takes to play the game as people see fit.

Can you explain how it will increase time to play? Couldn't adding more flight paths, making quests take into account no flying, and giving more herbs/ore per node make up for the difference? I'm just looking for more examples of ways that removal of flying will increase time in a way that can't be compensated for by a slight game design shift.

[Mafic]

Can you explain how it will increase time to play? Couldn't adding more flight paths, making quests take into account no flying, and giving more herbs/ore per node make up for the difference? I'm just looking for more examples of ways that removal of flying will increase time in a way that can't be compensated for by a slight game design shift.

They have done nothing to remedy this. What you see on beta is what you will get in a month and a half. Crafting and gathering professions were nuked to a cinder and everything..everything is tied to a garrison in terms of "progression".

If Cata was considered a railroad expansion and MoP too much change, etc...combine those two and you have WoD.

WoD's redeeming value is the leveling experience is better than Cata or MoP. But at level 100 the Apexis crystal grind is going to rub people off way worse than gated dailies of MoP.

[Lord Havik]

Fine by me, I got this cool juggernaut mount and never used it since I was flying everywhere. Perhaps now I'll actually get some use out of it.

[Wingspan]

Fine by me, I got this cool juggernaut mount and never used it since I was flying everywhere. Perhaps now I'll actually get some use out of it.

Was there some reason keeping you from using it before? Like let's say, in a major city or older content?

[Arom]

+1 Well said and good post.

Let me add that the time sinks have been added across the board so the removal of flight is simply piling on the time it takes to play the game as people see fit.

I agree completely. I've said all along that removal of flying at lvl 100 is simply a feeble effort on Blizzard's part to artificially extend the life of the content

[Anzaman]

@Varabently

I think that there's enough flightpoints in the zones.

Shadowmoon Valley:


Gorgrond:


Talador:


Nagrand:


Spires of Arak:


Frostfire Ridge (Alliance):

And in addition:

[Ragedaug]

If Cata was considered a railroad expansion

I hadn't heard that before. What's a "railroad expansion"?

[Drytoast]

While I don't entirely disagree with you, I should point out that there are games out there generating FAR less money than 2 million subscribers would that actually employ this technology.

It would be an expensive re-tooing (no doubt), but still WELL within the realm of possibility. Added on to the fact that as the game dwindles, more and more server merging in inevitable anyway, it is not such a crazy idea.

I am not saying they WILL do it (really, who knows), just that all evidence seems to suggest it as a possible avenue to explore.

You don't understand though. The 2 mil that would still be subscribed are your absolute loyalist. Why do this heavy retooling when you don't HAVE too.they could serve those last 2 mil with shit on a stick and so long as it has blizzard's icon on it, they will buy.

I fully expect instead, by that point WoW would go free to play, more attention would be paid to the store, and as it is like right now side revenue exploited such as that hearthstone shit. Which is why it's no surprise to me that garrison looks like something you could log into your cellphone to maintain.

Throw some adverts on the ap that handles your garrison, and blizzard makes bank...while the gamers get gameplay not much more complicating than planting flowers in final fantasy 11.

That's what I suspect will happen when this game gets down to 2 mil or less.

[Wingspan]

You don't understand though. The 2 mil that would still be subscribed are your absolute loyalist. Why do this heavy retooling when you don't HAVE too.they could serve those last 2 mil with shit on a stick and so long as it has blizzard's icon on it, they will buy.

I fully expect instead, by that point WoW would go free to play, more attention would be paid to the store, and as it is like right now side revenue exploited such as that hearthstone shit. Which is why it's no surprise to me that garrison looks like something you could log into your cellphone to maintain.

Throw some adverts on the ap that handles your garrison, and blizzard makes bank...while the gamers get gameplay not much more complicating than planting flowers in final fantasy 11.

That's what I suspect will happen when this game gets down to 2 mil or less.

Meh, maybe. The "loyalist" comment makes some sense, but as I stated, they are going to need to re-tool by that time anyway. Re-tooling will become mandatory at some point. We are already seeing it with the combined realms (server merges). It is only going to get worse.


If you think about it, "phazing" into a PvP version of a zone is really no different than an instance (just larger with more player capacity). You can already phase into a PvP server with cross-realm stuff... this would just be an extension of it.


They could even regulate the populations a bit better and bring a bit more balance to it. Hell, Ashran may even be a testing ground for the tech.


FTP though, my personal guess is that they will be under a million subs before they breach that. I don't have any real stats in front of me, but I would suspect that even 2 million paid subscribers generates more money than any FTP on the market.

Although, if they ever start releasing yearly expansions (as they have tried to do since forever), they will inevitably start shrinking a lot in size. At that point, they might try a "free expansion" with a subscription gimmick as a last ditch effort before going fully FTP.


It will be interesting to see.

[Lord Havik]

Was there some reason keeping you from using it before? Like let's say, in a major city or older content?

I queue for valor cap. I fly to Siege. I hearth back.

Other than AFKing on it in SW or traveling between outdoor bosses in siege, I rarely got use out if it.

Not in favor of removal of flight either, just indifferent.

[Ragedaug]

I queue for valor cap. I fly to Siege. I hearth back.

Other than AFKing on it in SW or traveling between outdoor bosses in siege, I rarely got use out if it.

Not in favor of removal of flight either, just indifferent.

Was there some reason keeping you from using your ground mount to run to SoO?

[Wingspan]

I queue for valor cap. I fly to Siege. I hearth back.

Other than AFKing on it in SW or traveling between outdoor bosses in siege, I rarely got use out if it.

Not in favor of removal of flight either, just indifferent.

It sounds like you don't get much use out of mounts in general.

Unless your playstyle changes (mostly instances) you probably won't be affected much either way, so I understand the indifference.

[Lord Havik]

Was there some reason keeping you from using your ground mount to run to SoO?

Just faster to fly. Even if it's like 50 feet from the shrine. A more efficient use of time than traveling by robo scorpion for the sheer entertainment value.

Most people queue for everything. What isn't queued for is in instances. And what is not queued for or in instances is mostly irrelevant to all but farmers, levelers and RPers.

As I power level through dungeons, rarely farm and never RP, I mostly view the change as a time expense issue in which my not being able to fly would make me slower. And since that time required to travel will not be greatly effected since I can just take the flightmaster or set my hearth to a place nearby, my position is one of indifference as I will not be greatly inconvenienced.

[Ragedaug]

It sounds like you don't get much use out of mounts in general.

Unless your playstyle changes (mostly instances) you probably won't be affected much either way, so I understand the indifference.

The indifference makes more sense to me, what I don't get is his previous statement.

"Fine by me, I got this cool juggernaut mount and never used it since I was flying everywhere."

You can already not fly everywhere. So there's nothing stopping from using it now. So he could run or could fly, and when given a choice of both, he always picks flying. So knowing this, he's fine with Blizzard removing his preference, because once he can't choose not to do it, he'll have to do it.

"I'm fine with blizzard removing something I choose to do because it will force me to do something I'm actively choosing not to do".

I dunno. I know my perplexity has been stated by many people many times, but I still have not been able to get my head around the reasoning.

[Drytoast]

Can you explain how it will increase time to play? Couldn't adding more flight paths, making quests take into account no flying, and giving more herbs/ore per node make up for the difference? I'm just looking for more examples of ways that removal of flying will increase time in a way that can't be compensated for by a slight game design shift.

Your assuming blizzard will compensate for it. Why should they?

[Lord Havik]

The indifference makes more sense to me, what I don't get is his previous statement.

"Fine by me, I got this cool juggernaut mount and never used it since I was flying everywhere."

You can already not fly everywhere. So there's nothing stopping from using it now. So he could run or could fly, and when given a choice of both, he always picks flying. So knowing this, he's fine with Blizzard removing his preference, because once he can't choose not to do it, he'll have to do it.

"I'm fine with blizzard removing something I choose to do because it will force me to do something I'm actively choosing not to do".

I dunno. I know my perplexity has been stated by many, many times, I still have not been able to get my head around the reasoning.

Mainly because if I CHOSE to use my ground mount to travel, I would be going more slowly than is efficient.
I won't be glad that I have to navigate every insanely convoluted path Bliz decides to throw at folks trying to travel by land, but my infinitesimal level of inconvenience is offset by "Well, at least I get to use THIS now and not be sub-optimal while doing it".

It's not so much "I'm fine with blizzard removing something I choose to do because it will force me to do something I'm actively choosing not to do" as it is "I'm fine with blizzard removing something I choose to do because nothing really changes when they do and so I don't care either way".

Bliz could get rid of all mounts, add teleportation to anywhere, increase run speed by 99999999999999999% and the outcome would be the same. All players would have the same relative movement speed, nothing would change except the slight difference in IRL time it took to get to each locale. Hardly something to get on a cross about.

[-Superman-]

Tbh, I'm having a hard time believing that's ever going to see the light of day on live. It's just way way way WAY too overpowered, especially with no equivalent for (most) other classes.

Unless they've completely exhausted their supply of fucks to give, I have to think they're just fucking with us. Right?

I've been using the hell out of it in Beta. Most enjoyable. There is a 1% chance it could get scrapped like Path of the Titans, but I think flight during PvP is just their way of forcing people to participate in Ashran content.

- - - Updated - - -

Was there some reason keeping you from using it before? Like let's say, in a major city or older content?

I believe the words you are looking for are:

Speed & Convenience

- - - Updated - - -

Was there some reason keeping you from using your ground mount to run to SoO?

Again, those two words:

Speed & Convenience. Someone's inability to show restraint, and play the game using the mount they enjoy the most means they think they are in the top, competitively speaking. Most players are just lazy, so unless ground mounts are FORCED, no one would willingly pick a ground mount over flying mount just for... you guessed it... speed and convenience.