1. #20861
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Well to be honest, you could simplify all "pro-flying" arguments to 'safety" and so on. When I play a MMORPG I don't expect to be completely safe just because I finished a 1.5 mount cast.
    It's not safety but speed but.... ok. Don't flightpaths offer much the same "safety" option? You fly over terrain, obstacle and mobs just like with freeform flight. You 'trivialize' ground content even worse, don't you, because you can't even voluntarily stop and engage... you're forced to finish the path before you set down.

    I would say that flightpath as no better than, and in someway worse, than freeform flight for that very reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    That's pretty much it, isn't it. There a lot of talk how removing flight is merely to slow us down, which I personally think is as worthless...
    It's what Bashiok admitted to in a post back in March. The furor that cropped up as a result caused Blizz to edit the post to remove the admission so good luck finding an intact copy... but tons of people saw it and remember it. "Worthless" or not, it is fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    as saying that quests that requires 5 wins instead of 7 slows us down.
    Just like needing 120 mats to craft and item this xpac instead of only 80 for a similar but less powerful item from last xpac slows us down so... yeah?
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    You dumb fucks....
    Reported.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    I was enjoying your argument until I got to dumb fucks.

    And if that was the goal, I agree! Anything that potentially removes danger from the world should be removed, and if flight is a victim, so should all porting to dungeons, summons, teleports, all LF/PvP queues and flight paths. Why, the world would be so populated then!!
    Here, here! No mounts of any kind either. No runing... all walking all the time.

    And let's remove weapons and gear, potions and food too.

    I know! Make The Ironman Challenge the real game... 24/7! Now THAT would be "something completely different!"

  2. #20862
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Well to be honest, you could simplify all "pro-flying" arguments to 'safety" and so on. When I play a MMORPG I don't expect to be completely safe just because I finished a 1.5 mount cast. That's pretty much it, isn't it. There a lot of talk how removing flight is merely to slow us down, which I personally think is as worthless as saying that quests that requires 5 wins instead of 7 slows us down. You dumb fucks don't understand pacing and thats why you will never understand why Blizzard don't want us to fly over everything they create.
    Dumb fucks aside, thats not the issue here. Yes, Azeroth/Draenor are safe as hell, but it doesn't have anything to do with flying/no flying, rather than game design. Every time you level in MoP you do it grounded, eh? I don't recall a single moment of danger during all that time, only Valley came close with Virmen all over the freaking place - and they only mildly annoyed you.

  3. #20863
    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    I was enjoying your argument until I got to dumb fucks.

    And if that was the goal, I agree! Anything that potentially removes danger from the world should be removed, and if flight is a victim, so should all porting to dungeons, summons, teleports, all LF/PvP queues and flight paths. Why, the world would be so populated then!!
    Those are different.

  4. #20864
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninepenny View Post
    Those are different.
    In one way or another they all allow a player to either "bypass" or "avoid" terrain and/or mobs. They "remove danger from the world" which goes to the erroneous "safety" b.s.

  5. #20865
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
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    You make it sound as if I'm personally slowing you down willingly when it's reasonable pacing that is.

    Then again what do I expect. Reading the posts in this thread makes it obvious all of you expect instant gratification and thus shouldn't be playing MMOs anyway.

    I doubt it's an unfair assessment that most of you played Skyrim using Fast Travel then asked why the game was so lackluster.

    Idiots.

    Let's keep it civil, please. Infracted.

    EDIT: Ugh that was too far and I am sorry.
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2014-10-04 at 09:31 AM.
    Active WoW player Jan 2006 - Aug 2020
    Occasional WoW Classic Andy since.
    Nothing lasts forever, as they say.
    But at least I can casually play Classic and remember when MMORPGs were good.

  6. #20866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    It's not safety but speed but.... ok. Don't flightpaths offer much the same "safety" option?
    That's why we can't have a decent discussion in this damn topic.

    People like you keep distorting meanings and ignoring context.
    How can you fail to see the gigantic difference between the safety of a flightpath and the safety of flying mounts?
    Flight paths have fixed origins; fixed destinations; no half-way dismounting; no changes in destination.
    You can't tell the difference of the things you can do with the safety of flying mounts, and the things you can do with the safety of flight paths? Or are you too proud to admit it?

    As for trivializing content, what are you smoking? Flight paths aren't trivializing or skipping content - you need options/choices to be able to do that.
    If you're on the ground, you have the option to fight that mob or skip it.
    If you're on a flight path, what choice do you have?

    If you want to discuss, learn to understand first.
    Last edited by Nurvus; 2014-10-03 at 10:06 PM.
    Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
    Why did you necro a thread?

  7. #20867
    The Lightbringer zEmini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I did, but 100's of post in this thread kept saying it wouldn't happen.

    @zEmini

    Exploration at the cost of gameplay
    Games are built on limitations you have as a player. I believe Extra Credits did a good video on this concept?
    Convenience - You can get portals to the 3 zones you require along with the ability to portal other players. Seems like WoD has more convenience without breaking gameplay
    Fun - subjective.
    Why add in new limitations then? There never was before. If portals are allowed, I don't see how flying breaks things more. Since fun is subjective - which I agree - then gameplay can also be subjective.

    Ill tell you one thing, if Timeless Isle is any indication to what things are going to be like for WoD without flying, we are going to have some problems.

  8. #20868
    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    ANd...another wpvp fanatic who tries to use the non-impact of flight on wpvp to justify flight's removal. Puhhhlleeeaasee. Long dead argument.
    2 things. It does have an impact. No one is saying that it is THE WPvP killer. And it has never been a justification for flight, just an additional pro on the list of no flight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mask View Post
    Part of an MMO like World of Warcraft (or Everquest before it, or countless other games now) is the fantasy of playing a character like what comes from fantasy novels or movies. You rarely read stories like that where people just fly around as though they had jetpacks all the time. There is a reason for that, it ruins the story! Flight works fine as a narrative for limited uses (like the eagles saving Frodo and Sam) but it completely circumvents all kinds of story arcs and travel related adventures.

    I have to say gameplay is so much more fun and immersive when you have to hoof through terrain and dangers to get to an objective than when you get to just point your flying mount a direction and "afk autorun" until you can drop down from above.

    Flying mounts as they exist in WoW today are freaking terrible. As soon as the novelty of them wore off in Burning Crusade I started to hate what they did to the game and haven't stopped hating it in these last 7 years. The longer they are disabled in WoD the better.
    This is the fundamental truth and really all that needs to be said. But it won't be because *incoming rationalizations*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    Immersion is subjective and not a valid basis for removing the feature. Gimping me to benefit you is bad. I am more than willing to let you play the game according to your own preferences and choices, using or not using and all of the features in the game at your own discretion.
    That's actually NOT what you're doing. Having flying forces people to the air in the same way not having them forces people to the ground. It's honestly hard to take anyone that tries to talk around this seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teetster View Post
    *stuff*
    People complain about things. Got it. There has been 5x more people upset in the past for things like LFR CRZ and PvP(balance) than there ever has been for flying. There is far MORE active support for no flying than there has been for any of those things.

    This is what's going to happen. WoD will release. People will be running around with flying in their head, jump to the forums and complain about how awful WoD is without flight. Those people are gonna come complain even if the game IS good with no flight, just because they're riding around with it in their head.
    3 weeks in, most people other than the extremists like Maneo and Barkloud will forget about it other than the random thread here and there.
    1/4 to half way into WoD Bliz will put flying back in at least some zones under their own judgment.
    Fliers will come to the forum and talk about how bad it was and how right they are.
    Fin.
    Last edited by Dormie; 2014-10-03 at 11:50 PM.

  9. #20869
    And the problem with that viewpoint is that it's something that can ONLY be accomplished prior to level cap, in the FIRST version of the game that someone plays. After that you have Aragorn dualwielding Anduril and Glamdring with full Mithril armor and the One Ring, simply walking into Mordor and slaughtering the entire Orcish race. Epic gear "ruins" the story more than convenient transit. Yes, if they had the eagles at the beginning they could have flown into Mordor, and gotten wrecked because they were 95 levels too low for the content and outfitted in vendor greys, because that's the nature of the heroes in fantasy novels, they're complete noobs.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  10. #20870
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    2 things. It does have an impact. No one is saying that it is THE WPvP killer. And it has never been a justification for flight, just an additional pro on the list of no flight.

    People complain about things. Got it. There has been 5x more people upset in the past for things like LFR CRZ and PvP(balance) than there ever has been for flying. There is far MORE active support for no flying than there has been for any of those things.

    This is what's going to happen. WoD will release. People will be running around with flying in their head, jump to the forums and complain about how awful WoD is without flight. Those people are gonna come complain even if the game IS good with no flight, just because they're riding around with it in their head.
    3 weeks in, most people other than the extremists like Maneo and Barkloud will forget about it other than the random thread here and there.
    1/4 to half way into WoD Bliz will put flying back in at least some zones under their own judgment.
    Fliers will come to the forum and talk about how bad it was and how right they are.
    Fin.

    Your dreaming in more ways than one. First, there has never been outrage about LFR CRZ even close to comparable to this. Second, most players will not just silently accept it. They will rage and because of this and many other deficiencies in WoD they will quit.

    Blizzard will trip over themselves to get it in ASAP, even pushing up 6.1 to do so if needed.

  11. #20871
    Quote Originally Posted by Teetster View Post
    Your dreaming in more ways than one. First, there has never been outrage about LFR CRZ even close to comparable to this. Second, most players will not just silently accept it. They will rage and because of this and many other deficiencies in WoD they will quit.

    Blizzard will trip over themselves to get it in ASAP, even pushing up 6.1 to do so if needed.
    The only outrage about this both here and the official forums have been the same handful of people keeping the threads up. My only point is that things with more controversy have gone through before so don't count on this.
    Last edited by Dormie; 2014-10-04 at 01:11 AM.

  12. #20872
    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    To date we can't fly until level cap so the only free-form flight to a 'quest objective' is post level cap... and thus trivial content one has either experienced already in some way, or which is effectively "meaningless" to character progression other than from a completists viewpoint (achieves, whatever). Doing such with flight can already be problematicly grindy or boring. Doing with w/o flight will be worse.
    Wrong, you're still going to farm your Mining/Herbing nodes. You know this is what most people care about, now farming can't be brain dead. You would also do this for any daily quest at level cap with flying enabled. There will be some daily quests in the game. If there really is going to be SO LITTLE content that flying infringes upon, tell me, why are you flying around post level cap? Surely your queue system doesn't require it and it's of no real value to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    Describes Flightmaster and flightpoints to a "T". Why is freeform flight the target and not flightpoints? Bad argument.
    Going from my house to work is not the same as going to the bus station by house to the bus station by work. We are not always at our destination using a single method of transportation. It's nice to get around easier, it's bad to completely negate the whole sense of having a world by having the majority of players up in the air and making the world feel empty. This is a MMORPG not a SPORPG.

    Also, you hate world PvP, I do not, it is a valid argument. You seem to hate any counter argument that is valid that ruins yours with a "who cares?" philosophy. It's poor, should consider not subscribing if you can't handle these things.

  13. #20873
    It's nice to get around easier, it's bad to completely negate the whole sense of having a world by having the majority of players up in the air and making the world feel empty. This is a MMORPG not a SPORPG.
    Exactly. Masterhampster also knows what hes talking about, and i've been enjoying his posts.

    Some of this stuff (such as the quote above) sounds like such obvious common sense - that it's hard to believe it still needs to be pointed out to pro-flying clowns and trolls here, who have their heads firmly stuck in the sand trying to pretend the sky is falling.

  14. #20874
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    You dumb fucks don't understand

    Whether or not your incompetent stupid mind realizes it

    Idiots.
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    to be pointed out to pro-flying clowns and trolls here,
    If this is really the best your side has left, gimme a sec to grab my umbrella and raincoat before you all start flinging the shit at your feet.

  15. #20875
    Quote Originally Posted by jd5 View Post
    If this is really the best your side has left, gimme a sec to grab my umbrella and raincoat before you all start flinging the shit at your feet.
    It's the result of slamming your head against a wall for months.

  16. #20876
    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    Lol! You twist and tap-dance pretty good. Which Blizz dept do you work for again?
    What the fuck is wrong with you people? My god...just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them a Blizzard employee. Quite honestly if lack of flying in Wod chases people like you out of the game then I'm all for it. You used to be somewhat rational but now you are just as vitriolic, hateful and bitter as the other malcontents here I'm sorry that people with a differing opinion is interrupting your whiny echo chamber but this forum is for discussion and if you can't handle that then maybe you should take a step back and get some much needed perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barkloud View Post
    You do not argue your principles. You mostly badger and insult people whose opinions differ from yours.

    I could be totally wrong about everything i am stating about no flying. i can admit that. Can you admit you maybe wrong about everything you have said?

    Probably not.... Go on though. Call people liars or do whatever else you do. It only shows your arguments have no weight.

    In political campaigns, if your platform is not a winner, attack the opposing candidate. That is what you are doing.

    You do not discuss the merits of your stance. You attack those who stand against you.

    As i have always said, you are free to run now. Why wait to play the gme how you want to?

    I repeat

    YOU

    CAN

    RUN

    RIGHT

    NOW


    Say it with me....
    Posts like this are blatant trolling. The issue at hand is how flying mpacts how we interact with the game world and with each other. It isn't about disliking the actual mounts. Telling people to use ground mounts and let others fly doesn't address the issue of how that affects the game world. If any of you are serious about getting flying in Wod you need to not only get on the same page as Blizzard but that of those who dislike how flying has changed the game. Until you actually acknowledge the issues people have with flying no one is going to give a fuck what any of you think including Blizzard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    Personally, I recommend you stop engaging him and just report him. Let the mods read his b.s. and do their thing. Problem solved.
    And yet you have the gall to throw a hissy fit whenever anyone questions your viewpoint. I love it. This is pure gold. Someone disagreeing with you doesn't make them a troll nor is it against any rules on these forums. If anything you and Barkloud are the ones trolling and harassing others and when that fails you all resort to derailing the thread to deflect from the fact you have no actual counter argument to what anyone is trying to say to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    Sounds like your problem. Traveling is a large part of the game; flying is how we been traveling for years. But it seems you need more
    -Exploring the world from another point of view
    -Freedom!!!
    -Convenience; because seriously haven't we all spent enough time playing a ten year old game?
    -Fun (probably the most important of all)

    Once again you don't have to use flying mounts. You can use portals or Flight paths, or stay grounded.
    Again this doesn't address the fact that everything in game happens at ground level and the fact that if everyone is up in the air in their own little world, they aren't interacting with each other. THAT is the issue. THAT is why people have been asking for flying to be taken out of game. NO ONE not one single person has ever said they hate the actual flying mounts themselves.

    As far as travel goes, we have flight paths and ground mounts and numerous items that transport us to any number of places quickly and Wod seems to be adding more and more. They aren't slowing down travel, they are simply changing HOW you travel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiXThEPiEcEs View Post
    Don't worry! Stables building offers 20% more ground speed and you can't be dazed while mounted!
    If you are being dazed off your mount then you are purposely running through mobs rather than around them. I have seen beta tester after beta tester after beta tester state that dazing hasn't been a problem for them whatsoever. Honestly if this is a large reason why people want flying then wouldn't it make more sense to ask Blizzard to change the daze mechanic or remove it rather than demand flight back?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    I was enjoying your argument until I got to dumb fucks.

    And if that was the goal, I agree! Anything that potentially removes danger from the world should be removed, and if flight is a victim, so should all porting to dungeons, summons, teleports, all LF/PvP queues and flight paths. Why, the world would be so populated then!!
    All those other methods of travel are controlled by the game, not by the player and don't impact interaction in the same way as flying does. Really continuing to sidestep this point isn't going to help you get flying in Wod. It will just get you ignored by Blizzard and rightfully so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberzombie View Post
    In one way or another they all allow a player to either "bypass" or "avoid" terrain and/or mobs. They "remove danger from the world" which goes to the erroneous "safety" b.s.
    Playing dumb isn't going to get you flying in Wod either. Like I said if you really want Blizzard to change their mind then you would do well to at least acknowledge and comprehend their side of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    Why add in new limitations then? There never was before. If portals are allowed, I don't see how flying breaks things more. Since fun is subjective - which I agree - then gameplay can also be subjective.

    Ill tell you one thing, if Timeless Isle is any indication to what things are going to be like for WoD without flying, we are going to have some problems.
    There is nothing subjective about the fact that flying impacts interaction. There is just no getting around that point. Again those other methods of travel are controlled by the game and not the player which means Blizzard can control how these travel methods impact interaction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    And the problem with that viewpoint is that it's something that can ONLY be accomplished prior to level cap, in the FIRST version of the game that someone plays. After that you have Aragorn dualwielding Anduril and Glamdring with full Mithril armor and the One Ring, simply walking into Mordor and slaughtering the entire Orcish race. Epic gear "ruins" the story more than convenient transit. Yes, if they had the eagles at the beginning they could have flown into Mordor, and gotten wrecked because they were 95 levels too low for the content and outfitted in vendor greys, because that's the nature of the heroes in fantasy novels, they're complete noobs.
    Last time I checked not one single piece of gear takes players out of the game world into dead space. The issue is interaction not how powerful your characters are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teetster View Post
    Your dreaming in more ways than one. First, there has never been outrage about LFR CRZ even close to comparable to this. Second, most players will not just silently accept it. They will rage and because of this and many other deficiencies in WoD they will quit.

    Blizzard will trip over themselves to get it in ASAP, even pushing up 6.1 to do so if needed.
    Are you joking? There were hundreds of capped threads on LFR and especially CRZ in the first few weeks of implementation alone and yet Blizzard hasn't removed either. Interestingly enough, many of the people who bitched and whined about CRZ forcing them to interact with others are the exact same people raising hell over lack of flying in Wod.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jd5 View Post
    If this is really the best your side has left, gimme a sec to grab my umbrella and raincoat before you all start flinging the shit at your feet.
    It is no small wonder that people are getting aggressive and hostile towards those who whine incessantly about wanting flying in Wod. It isn't because they disagree it is because none of you will actually discuss the reasons why people dislike flying. It has been page after page after page of "no one is stopping you from using your ground mount" and "waaaahh i got dazed because i purposely ran through a mob" and other such nonsense. Look we get it. People like being able to fly in game. That's great. It was a fun way to experience the game but the problem is flying isn't a major part of the game and shouldn't come at the expense of game play.

  17. #20877
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Are you joking? There were hundreds of capped threads on LFR and especially CRZ in the first few weeks of implementation alone and yet Blizzard hasn't removed either. Interestingly enough, many of the people who bitched and whined about CRZ forcing them to interact with others are the exact same people raising hell over lack of flying in Wod.

    To be fair here, I think these are for different reasons.


    To begin with, LFR is simply popular... HUGELY popular everywhere BUT the forums. As an extra feature it was probably fairly cheap to implement, and kept A LOT of people busy. That is win/win for developers.


    CRZs were likely a financial and performance decision based on "wasted space" (lots of server space dedicated to almost no player population). Considering that it was never removed, I would also have to guess that they determined the sub losses connected to it were pretty minimal.


    While I don't know if the no-fly thing will have a truly major impact on subs, I would have to think it will be much more significant than CRZs. One thing is certain however, Bliz is not going to give up on this without a fight (there is too much potential profit to be had), so I would kind of expect another full-blown "epics on the ground" style experience by 6.1 and possibly even the patch afterwards if the losses are in that sweet spot between "let them fly" and "kill it forever".

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    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    It is no small wonder that people are getting aggressive and hostile towards those who whine incessantly about wanting flying in Wod. It isn't because they disagree it is because none of you will actually discuss the reasons why people dislike flying. It has been page after page after page of "no one is stopping you from using your ground mount" and "waaaahh i got dazed because i purposely ran through a mob" and other such nonsense. Look we get it. People like being able to fly in game. That's great. It was a fun way to experience the game but the problem is flying isn't a major part of the game and shouldn't come at the expense of game play.

    The problem here, is that flyers don't tend to believe that it harms gameplay and no-flyers do... and BOTH beliefs are merely opinions, nothing more.


    Currently, Bliz is taking a stance that it harms gameplay (or at least some of the developers do)... but for 7 or so previous years it was somehow perfectly fine in their eyes. SO fine in fact, they they specifically chose to add it to the 2 primary continents, which they simply did not have to do (and if it was so damaging, you think they would not have). And then they also added it in the next expansion after that (again, why, if it was so damaging).


    Clearly opinions, and this is all they are, can change. And if enough people actually leave over this, the opinion will miraculously change again.
    Last edited by Wingspan; 2014-10-04 at 03:52 AM.

  18. #20878
    Quote Originally Posted by Wingspan View Post
    Currently, Bliz is taking a stance that it harms gameplay (or at least some of the developers do)... but for 7 or so previous years it was somehow perfectly fine in their eyes. SO fine in fact, they they specifically chose to add it to the 2 primary continents, which they simply did not have to do (and if it was so damaging, you think they would not have). And then they also added it in the next expansion after that (again, why, if it was so damaging).
    Being that the new zones for cata were a part of Azeroth, I can imagine adding flying to all of Azeroth was an effort to keep the travel fluid. Having to ground mount to Hyjal so you can mount up and fly would just seem strange. Still, why does it matter that they chose this expansion to have a new design direction? Should they just always do what they've done in the past simply because it's what they've always done? What better time than now to face this problem head on?

  19. #20879
    Quote Originally Posted by Ordinator View Post
    Being that the new zones for cata were a part of Azeroth, I can imagine adding flying to all of Azeroth was an effort to keep the travel fluid. Having to ground mount to Hyjal so you can mount up and fly would just seem strange. Still, why does it matter that they chose this expansion to have a new design direction?

    If the opinion at the time was that flight damaged the game then NONE of Cata should have had flight... not the new zones in Azeroth, not the old zones, none. I am sure it was pretty costly for the massive flight-capable overhaul, so it would have been insane of them to do it if they thought it was damaging the game. The same goes for MoP really.



    It does not matter that they chose this expansion. It merely matters that it happened at all. The reason it matters is because it is evidence that opinions change... we had 7-ish years of Bliz thinking "flight good" followed by the last year or so as "flight bad" (which is an opinion change in action).

    Bliz is actually showing us through their own actions that the game impact is largely opinion and subject to change. And if they collect enough evidence that too many people leave due to the change, then "flight awesome-good" will be the new battle cry at the home office.



    Should they just always do what they've done in the past simply because it's what they've always done?


    There is nothing inherently wrong with change, but this change removes something rather large in scope. Removing features can be unwise as a general rule, but removing them when your product is in a state of decline kind of adds some extra kick to it. It could be dangerous. It could actually be more damaging to the game than any affect flight ever had. Who knows though?



    What better time than now to face this problem head on?


    Again... if this is a "problem" or not is a matter of opinion, nothing more, nothing less. It happens to be the current designer opinion, but (as with all opinions) subject to change. After all, it already HAS changed once.
    Last edited by Wingspan; 2014-10-04 at 05:30 AM.

  20. #20880
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    I was enjoying your argument until I got to dumb fucks.

    And if that was the goal, I agree! Anything that potentially removes danger from the world should be removed, and if flight is a victim, so should all porting to dungeons, summons, teleports, all LF/PvP queues and flight paths. Why, the world would be so populated then!!

    Hehe you are still posting nonsense in this thread?

    You need to seriously reassess your life priorities.

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