Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[KWC3587]

Stupid theory, and I know exactly nothing about video game design and all that, but is it possible that Blizz is removing flying not because of immersion or some people just wanting it removed, but because without it they don't have to "finish" the zones in Draenor? In previous expansions with flying we didn't also have player characters completely redone, so could the time and resources needed to redo those character models be taking time and resources away from world building/design? If so, then not having flying at launch and waiting until some time after the expansion releases to add flying back in, if they do, would allow them to get the expansion out with "unfinished" zones and give them time to finish the zones after release. Could also explain why we're looking at a possibly late 2014 release instead of the relatively early release some people were expecting; they're waiting to see if they can finish the zones before release.

Again, stupid theory and I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but it's just something I was thinking about.

It's quite possible, but once again they keep going on about an increased development team size. Surely that at least somewhat offsets the character remodel time.

[Raeln]

Instanced PVP was the real upset for PVP servers. Places like Ashran, which won't allow flight anyway, will be a big boost for PVP servers. And they'll still be adding no-fly islands, like Farahlon in 6.1, that will help PVP servers.

And they could always increase the functionality of the Hardened Shell. Make an easier to get version for WoD that has increased range and decreased cooldown. Make flying more risky in Draenor on PVP servers without bothering PVE servers as much.

It won't matter if there isn't a reason for players to be there - which has historically been the reason world PvP has struggled since BGs were first implemented.

As long as world PvP "areas" are built in out-of-the-way areas that are insignificant to the daily life of the typical WoW player - world PvP will be scarce. Not that I care, I moved off a PvP server a long time ago but each expansion Blizzard tries some new gimmick so they can claim to be supporting world PvP.

[Deleted]

Stupid theory, and I know exactly nothing about video game design and all that, but is it possible that Blizz is removing flying not because of immersion or some people just wanting it removed, but because without it they don't have to "finish" the zones in Draenor? In previous expansions with flying we didn't also have player characters completely redone, so could the time and resources needed to redo those character models be taking time and resources away from world building/design? If so, then not having flying at launch and waiting until some time after the expansion releases to add flying back in, if they do, would allow them to get the expansion out with "unfinished" zones and give them time to finish the zones after release. Could also explain why we're looking at a possibly late 2014 release instead of the relatively early release some people were expecting; they're waiting to see if they can finish the zones before release.

Again, stupid theory and I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but it's just something I was thinking about.

It is not stupid, it is highly likely that it is an economic decision. Just like the daily quests in early MoP were, it was all about slowing people down to soften the exodus after the first month(s). We will see if WoD is going to be smaller or less developed than previous addons.

It is however a huge warning sign when developers praise the removal of an aspect as a feature. I have seen this in SWTOR before.

[zEmini]

Removing flying mounts will be a game killer for me. All the hours and gold spent from obtaining these mounts would be pretty much wasted. If they make them ALL ground-able, I may be able to forgive but I still would probably quit.

On the bright side I would have time to do other things.

[Helwinter]

If Ground Speed = Fly speed, sure. Otherwise, hells no. One patch may be too long.

[Drusin]

I know I'm one person out of millions of players but all removing flying will do (in my case) is just annoy me a bit. I'm not going to talk to random people in the world, I'm not on a pvp server and won't flag myself, I'm not grouping with anyone to do anything I can do alone (even if it takes more effort to do alone, if it can be solo'd that will be my choice). All Blizzard will do is take someone who flys everywhere and doesn't interact with random players and make him someone who rides his mount everywhere and doesn't interact with random players. I most certainly won't see the world either if that's their intention, my eyes are trained to lock for quest items/mobs and watch out for bad stuff. Now you're probably readying your fingers to say "garsh Drusin it's an MMO Y U NO socialize" but realize I do socialize, in the city/dungeons/guild. When I leave these places and go out into the world I do so with a specific intention in mind and it is not to mingle. I wouldn't be upset though and this isn't a QQ post despite how it may sound, I'm just saying for ME (one player out of millions) no flying would accomplish 0 of Blizzard's desired goals.

[KWC3587]

Those are decent reasons......to not allow flying while leveling. Once one reaches max level however most of those become irrelevant.

[Conscious]

<snip>

That's all well and nice if everything he's been saying about why they want to remove flying didn't clash with the direction the development team has said they're going to go in. And those reasons are almost entirely irrelevant at max level.

Particular his emphasis on structured questing, when they've said they want to pursue a dynamic and spontaneous questing akin to Timeless Isle.

Also Bashiok is a massive, massive idiot. I take every single word that moron says with a grain of salt.

[Raeln]

That's not compromise. That's making flying distinctly DISadvantageous to other forms of travel, pushing it so far into non-use that it might as well NOT be in the game. It's tantamount to removing it.

Yet it's okay to push ground mounts to the point that they are of non-use?

[Nalam the Venom]

I don't mind the time between time A and B being longer when I'm leveling.

But once I'm level 100..

Why the fuck do I want to sit on flight paths for 15-20 minutes? (to get to your destination)

Why do I want my mount collection, to go mostly unused? (i think you can survive without that for a few months, or you can just go back to the old world whenever you wanna fly)

Why in the fuck is my collector's edition mount unable to fly, despite being advertised as such? (it can fly :> at the next patch)

Why is Blizzard intentionally misleading us? (because they are very evil company that are only after money and to corrupt your soul)

The fuck am I paying more money for an expansion that gives me less? (because you want to play WoD and you don't have a choice? unless you wanna unsub ofc)

You see where this is going? (well it ain't going up in the sky atleast)

see above 10/chars

[Joey Ray III]

You're point seemed to be that people were only on equal ground on the actual ground. As I couldn't fathom the relevance of this statement I had to assume you meant from a pvp standpoint, in which case it still wasn't true. I can knock someone off their mount as easily in the air as I can on the ground.

as easily eh? well tell me, how do you knock them off? unless they're hovering or you were standing close to them when they just took off i'm having problems imagining that.

i'd like to know an easy way to knock people of their flying mounts.

[Asmekiel]

Yet it's okay to push ground mounts to the point that they are of non-use?

Ground mounts are used everywhere though, I see them all the time.

i'd like to know an easy way to knock people of their flying mounts.

Hardened Shell

[Barkloud]

It is not stupid, it is highly likely that it is an economic decision. Just like the daily quests in early MoP were, it was all about slowing people down to soften the exodus after the first month(s). We will see if WoD is going to be smaller or less developed than previous addons.

It is however a huge warning sign when developers praise the removal of an aspect as a feature. I have seen this in SWTOR before.

It is a big economic decision for Blizzard. Developing dailies instead of traditional end game content like dungeons must have saved them a ton in development costs in MOP.

How much money are they saving not having to code the tops of things we cannot see thanks to no flying? How much money are they saving on not having to code the million different places for us to land. No Flying is a tremendous amount of free $$$$ for Blizz.

The player in me hates Blizz. The businessman in me marvels how they can squeeze their playerbase, continuously provide less value, and still get heralded by much of their subscriber base. Look at WoD, no flying plus a 25% increase to cost of exp. You go Blizz, keep tapping those veins.

[Conscious]

It is not stupid, it is highly likely that it is an economic decision. Just like the daily quests in early MoP were, it was all about slowing people down to soften the exodus after the first month(s). We will see if WoD is going to be smaller or less developed than previous addons.

It is however a huge warning sign when developers praise the removal of an aspect as a feature. I have seen this in SWTOR before.

SWTOR, COD, BF4, D3, damn near all the games that remove features touting gameplay, when in the end they're entirely motivated by laziness and penny pinching.

They're moving to keep people subscribed so that the first quarter numbers don't hurt so much. Entirely it, one sweeping time-sink that affects everyone.

see above 10/chars

Reported and blocked.

[KWC3587]

as easily eh? well tell me, how do you knock them off? unless they're hovering or you were standing close to them when they just took off i'm having problems imagining that.

i'd like to know an easy way to knock people of their flying mounts.

Daze, polymorph, so on? You've really never heard it done before?

[Beazy]

Yet it's okay to push ground mounts to the point that they are of non-use?

You dont level your characters?
You dont do BGs?

Ground mounts are just as important.

[Joey Ray III]

Hardened Shell

yes i know but that has limited range and... 15 minutes cd? he said he can knock people off flying as easily as off ground mounts.

[Deleted]

It is a big economic decision for Blizzard. Developing dailies instead of traditional end game content like dungeons must have saved them a ton in development costs in MOP.

How much money are they saving not having to code the tops of things we cannot see thanks to no flying? How much money are they saving on not having to code the million different places for us to land. No Flying is a tremendous amount of free $$$$ for Blizz.

The player in me hates Blizz. The businessman in me marvels how they can squeeze their playerbase, continuously provide less value, and still get heralded by much of their subscriber base. You go Blizz, keep tapping those veins.

Correct. It is even more impressive how they manage to get a lot of players to repeat their excuses to make this decisions. Remember "DAILIES ARE OPTIONAL NOW H`SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUUUUPPP".

They use the exact same reasons and phrases without even thinking. Its amazing.

[Sunseeker]

Yet it's okay to push ground mounts to the point that they are of non-use?

Ground mounts haven't been altered to be worse off than they began. They simply got outdated, just like your 40% mount go outdated by your 60%, and then that one by your 100%, just like walking got replaced by running, and running by mounts themselves.

[Asmekiel]

yes i know but that has limited range and... 15 minutes cd? he said he can knock people off flying as easily as off ground mounts.

That's the only way I know to get any person of their mounts. I don't do PvP though, so I don't really care.