Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[melodramocracy]

If Blizz thought flight was a problem, they never would have put it in Wrath.
If Blizz thought flight was a problem, they never would have designed Azeroth around it in Cataclysm
If Blizz thought flight was a problem, they never would have added 2 different types of flight in MoP

And if they thought there were no issues that have come from it, they'd have left it in.

[Dormie]

Everything is black and white. Anyone who thinks there is grey area obviously has much to learn about how things really work, and how not to make excuses. So yeah, we'll talk more AFTER 6.1.

Not to sound insulting, but that's probably the dumbest and most false thing you said. There are so many variables and factors that go into everything.
To be clear, I mean 'black and white' as being equivalent to speaking in absolutes.

[Barkloud]

How you can continue to say dumb shit like:



and then disagree with:

"they decided *lets put some serious effort into trying to turn this around so it has a positive effect on the game instead of a negative one* and then spent 3 expansions failing at it."

Is beyond me.

You are truly


ALSO just because you keep bringing it up...

We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

I hear you Bacon.

It is kind of like saying removing flight will not really effect the pace of the game, but I currently do not run because not flying effects the pace of the game.

[-Superman-]

--snipped the dumb shit--

Feel free to add me to ignore. I've been giving you plenty of chances to provide me some shred of evidence, and yet you fail to do so. No shock really since you are pretty much a liar and a troll. I won't be responding to you, or your bullshit and trolling any longer.

[Drytoast]

My posts, outside of calling the breakfast sandwich out on his bullshit, are hardly sensational. If anything, my post count has increased per page as I now have more free time at work, and things in the Beta are slowing down. Nothing more, nothing less. I still enjoy the game, and am still exploring in the Beta. I've no intention of deleting anything, or unsubbing. If I get to a point where things are just no fun anymore, then yes, I will likely unsub and just fade into a sunset somewhere.

Buddy, you switch sides better than a pendulum.


You started this whole shit beyond over they top as superman right? You stalked the devs got banned from the official boards, blocked from dev twitter accounts, started polls and letters...the whole shabang. Got banned from here...

Then you disappeared, and re appeared under a different name, and preached this more zen like approach...

Remember that?

"I over reacted, no flight in a video game isn't a big deal guys! Blah blah, we should just have an open mind...blah blah blah"

Now you've forgotten all that crap, and again...have lost yourself in This stupid argument again, arguing for pro flight.

And while you and I share the same opinions on flight, watching you go on your emotional roller coaster during this thread's lifespan could be used as a great project for any psych doctor...

[Baconeggcheese]

Feel free to add me to ignore.

Believe me I would if putting someone on ignore didn't just highlight their posts making them stick out more than everyone elses and not prevent you from seeing other people quote that person anyway.

Also oh hey more ad hominem! Go figure. No shock there!

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Buddy, you switch sides better than a pendulum.

That's just his "ability to see both sides of the argument" man. You just don't understand him.

[cuafpr]

I just can't believe people are still not over this yet... Playing on T.I. only made me want no fly WoD more. Especially on a PvP server

funny it made me hate no flying even more and avoid TI and if it was for my OCD like level of addiction i'd to the warcraft franchise going back to orcs vs humans i'd prob quit till flying was added in WoD. I can't raid with my current work schedule, and i love flying around to random places and seeing the sights and taking screen shots.

[Barkloud]

I don't feel like wasting time proving it again. But go ahead and pick any 2 spots on the map and fly between the 2 and then take a flight path between the 2, you'll find the difference in travel time minimal.

Then why do you fly instead of run?

[Ordinator]

Then why do you fly instead of run?

Somebody didn't even read what he quoted..

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If Blizz thought flight was a problem, they never would have put it in Wrath.
If Blizz thought flight was a problem, they never would have designed Azeroth around it in Cataclysm
If Blizz thought flight was a problem, they never would have added 2 different types of flight in MoP

Just because it was included in those expansions doesn't mean there was never a plan to balance it. The logic some of you people come up with is just cringe worthy.

[Baconeggcheese]

The logic some of you people.

What you mean "you people"?

[Ordinator]

What you mean "you people"?

Pro flight. Simply put.

[arandomuser]

Really love the change, now my ground mounts get to be relevent, it will be inconvient not being able to get places as quick as i would like to, but hopefully they make flying mounts relevent at some point as well.

[Deleted]

Honestly, i wouldn't mind Flying being gone. As long as they don't think Charging Elites dismounting me in a choke point is a great idea. *COUGH* Timeless Isle *COUGH*

[khalltusk]

Holy shit I missed some full on rage.

Well I am getting pretty stoked for the expansion now, the horde bike is getting some serious mileage from me so far. I am at the stage where I will say "get me the fuck out of Pandaria and onto a new continent". As much as I enjoyed Mop, i've been there too long now.

[Deleted]

If Blizz thought flight was a problem, they never would have put it in Wrath.
If Blizz thought flight was a problem, they never would have designed Azeroth around it in Cataclysm
If Blizz thought flight was a problem, they never would have added 2 different types of flight in MoP

Blizz also added Raid dungeons, which could only be accessed by less than 2% of the playerbase.

Blizz also added 5man dungeons which took up to 4 hours to complete.

Blizz also added world events which crashed their own servers.

Blizz also added overpowered absorbs.

Blizz also Added CloS to the things that could be reset with Preparation.

Shall I go on? You want people to make arguments. Fine. Do it then. "Blizz did something in the past, so it must be correct to do so" is not an argument.



On top of that: What point is it you try to make here? Yes, they think flying is a problem. There are hundreds of blueposts, tweets and interviews out, by the people who actually design and designed the game, stating exactly that, and explaining why.

Blizz: "We have come to the conclusion that flying is a problem"
You: "Blizz doesn't think flying is a problem"

Logic?

[khalltusk]

Blizz also added 5man dungeons which took up to 4 hours to complete.

Blizz also added world events which crashed their own servers.



Logic?

Good old Aq40 event, and long ass BRD runs. Blizzard has changed this game so much and I see no flying as one of those things they will try to force players to play a certain way. I can see it going a few ways : After initial QQ it settles down and life goes on blizzard add flight later on when the content is out dated/new expansion launched where no flying is again the norm : A huge shitstorm comes out and flying is brought back in 6.1 or earlier depending on what actually happens.

Thats pretty much the two ways I see it going.

[MasterHamster]

Blizz also added Raid dungeons, which could only be accessed by less than 2% of the playerbase.

Blizz also added 5man dungeons which took up to 4 hours to complete.

Blizz also added world events which crashed their own servers.

Blizz also added overpowered absorbs.

Blizz also Added CloS to the things that could be reset with Preparation.

Shall I go on? You want people to make arguments. Fine. Do it then. "Blizz did something in the past, so it must be correct to do so" is not an argument.



On top of that: What point is it you try to make here? Yes, they think flying is a problem. There are hundreds of blueposts, tweets and interviews out, by the people who actually design and designed the game, stating exactly that, and explaining why.

Blizz: "We have come to the conclusion that flying is a problem"
You: "Blizz doesn't think flying is a problem"

Logic?

I think this argument is getting a bit ridiculous on both sides. It's obvious from various low-profile posts or tweets that there is discontent with how flying has affected how we tackle content, surely increased over the expansions as world/leveling content has become increasingly easier and easier and the average player "older and older" in terms of how long they've been subscribed.

I don't think flying had nowhere close to as much of a negative effect back in BC or Wrath (with Storm Peaks and Icecrown being designed around flying, and so on) as it has later. In Cataclysm we were allowed to fly right away making 80-85 leveling a joke, but it made sense since the zones were in the re-worked EK and Kalimdor. And if Wintergrasp has taught us anything it's that it's f---ing annoying to get dismounted just because you happened to enter the airspace of a no-flight zone.

So can we take this down a notch? Asking for a post with Blizzard cursing the very day they introduced flying and how they've had people murdering each other in office over their stance of flying or no flying is as much use as rabbling various obvious design mistakes or flaws throughout the years in hindsight.

So my small contribution: The negatives of flying has become worse over the years as world content and leveling has become more and more pushed aside for "endgame". They didn't immediately regret flying, but they haven't felt it necessary to take it out either, though it's obvious they are getting slowly pushed in that direction. In MoP we had IoT, IoG and TI and I think it's fair that they want to extend that kind of experience to a whole continent instead of having these inconsistent islands where people are actually engaged in world content and not flying over it, getting pissed because their flight capability is taken from them over and over. Inconsistency is part of the problem. A small part of me would like flying to be disabled in all continents, for the sole purpose of making us "forget" about flight and make us used to travel on the ground where the game actually is, but that's waaaaay too much at once.

[-Superman-]

And while you and I share the same opinions on flight, watching you go on your emotional roller coaster during this thread's lifespan could be used as a great project for any psych doctor...

That's just it though. I am not back to my old ways. I am simply putting liars and trolls in check, regardless of their side of the aisle. Bark and Rym are both pro-flight, and I treat them the same as Bacon and the other liars in the anti-flight camp. This is not about being pro flight, or anti flight. It is about establishing the absolute facts about what has been said by Blizz about flight.

People who claim flight "is being removed", are liars. Blizzard has never made such a statement.

People who understand flight might not come back with 6.1 are not using much common sense given how Blizz historically caves to casuals.

People who simply just want to argue, rather than discuss the topic at hand, are just assholes who live for the drama.

So, my return to this thread is not to stalk the devs, and preach pro-flight, or do any of the crazy shit I once did as pro-flight. My return to the thread to discuss how the game does feel ok even without flight, even if only for a patch, is still true. I've been enjoying the Beta and took my 5th character to 100 just last weekend. Now, granted, after 3 months in Beta with no flight on Draenor, it has begun to show signs of boredom for me. Now I simply sit and work on my Garrisons. There is very little that is new, and nothing drastically interesting. I avoided pet battles since I plan to do alot of that when it goes live.

So if there is one thing taken away from any of this, when it looks like I am off the rails, that would just be me going off on a liar/troll/whiny bitch and putting the topic back on track. I am very ok with no flight til 6.1... maybe even 6.2. What I am not ok with is ad hominem/ad nauseum/ad trolleum/assholeums on either side of the fence derailing the thread with bullshit, lies, and bickering. If it is relevant to the topic, then it should be acknowledged. Stuff from certain trolls needs to be ignored until they go away. I have no further discussion with certain people, so hopefully they will grow up or shut up and stick to the thread topic.

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Blizz also added Raid dungeons, which could only be accessed by less than 2% of the playerbase.

Every raid can be accessed by anyone if they meet the minimum gear requirement. So this would be a lie.

Blizz also added 5man dungeons which took up to 4 hours to complete.

Like Sunken Temple, which got nerfed, Scarlet Mon which got nerfed, and BRD which got split into 2 sections. Catered to casuals. Just like flight.

Blizz also added world events which crashed their own servers.

And the new world event hasn't even come close.

Blizz also added overpowered absorbs.

To help casuals last a bit longer.

Blizz also Added CloS to the things that could be reset with Preparation.

And they've unlocked raids for soloing, removed some daily cooldowns, and extended some things to help casuals.

Blizz: "We have come to the conclusion that flying is a problem"
You: "Blizz doesn't think flying is a problem"

Show me one post, by a Dev claiming the flight is a "problem". They may say it "trivializes combat" or that it is a bit "over-powered", but they have never called it "a problem". This would be the part where I tell you that is a lie, and am certain you have nothing to back it up.

[dwarfkicker]

What gets me is how vocal the "no flying" crowd is. In BC flying was introduced and subs were on the rise. In WoLK flying was still going and subs were still continuing to rise. Cata had the highest peak of subs and flying was still there. Now I don't chalk flying up to even remotely having anything to do with the decline in subs, so much as Cata just being a ho-hum expansion. Why wasn't the "no-flying" crowd rattling their sabers back in BC? WoLK? Cata? MoP? It wasn't until a few tweets leading up to WoD and the first blizzcon that all of a sudden this small group is now verbally up in arms over flying. Is it the cool, hipster thing to do? Hate on a popular feature that "helps" set WoW apart from other games in the genre? Look at FF14. They're bringing flying mounts to the game. Why? It's a successful feature in WoW. That and they're able to sculpt crazy environments (from the sound of it) around the feature.

I think the immersion arguement is the weakest of all. WPVPers have a better arguement. To the people that say it effects their immersion, you are selfish and petty. Who are any of you to tell others how they should be immersed in the world? One, I'm ok with not flying until patch 6.1. Two, I think flying is great in this game. I don't view it as just a method of convience. I also see it as a cool, enjoyable form of transportation. Soaring up above everything while descending in to take out the badguys or landing in a town like a boss that says, "oh yeah, I'm a big deal." That's immersion right there. And in no way am I telling anyone that's how they should feel when they play the game.

[-Superman-]

I think this argument is getting a bit ridiculous on both sides.

So can we take this down a notch? Asking for a post with Blizzard cursing the very day they introduced flying and how they've had people murdering each other in office over their stance of flying or no flying is as much use as rabbling various obvious design mistakes or flaws throughout the years in hindsight.

I am ok with notching it back, as long as the liars in the thread will quit speaking on Blizzard's behalf. They wanna cite Blizz? Show me a citation. Otherwise it is just a flat out lie, and we've already had enough bullshit in this thread.

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Holy shit I missed some full on rage.

Well I am getting pretty stoked for the expansion now, the horde bike is getting some serious mileage from me so far. I am at the stage where I will say "get me the fuck out of Pandaria and onto a new continent". As much as I enjoyed Mop, i've been there too long now.

Was only rage for liars, in both camps. It's done now. I've put people on ignore who fail to cite Blizzard statements rather than just spewing bullshit and using fancy latin terms.

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Just because it was included in those expansions doesn't mean there was never a plan to balance it. The logic some of you people come up with is just cringe worthy.

And yet when asking Bashiok about balancing flight, they said they had no intention of doing so because the (paraphrased) crazy mechanics to interfere with flight was not something the players wanted, nor something they wanted to waste time developing. I even asked about slowing mounts down. reg flight to 60% and epic flight to 100% to put them on par with ground mount speeds, and he pretty much just laughed. If their idea of "balancing" things is to remove it, I hope they "balance" pvp next.

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Pro flight. Simply put.

Let's not pretend there aren't shitheads on both sides. That's a bit presumptuous of you. Let's not forget Harry Potter with the Pistol who has not been around for awhile.

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Trust me when I say the last thing I am worried about on this planet is my reputation in this thread..

Well then, you are right on target to fulfill opinions. Start citing Blizz. You'll be taken more seriously.