Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[-Superman-]

This has to be one of the most simplistic concept I have ever seen on this forum.

People overcomplicate things. I like to simplify. Helps me cut through other people's bullshit.

Your analogy states that if you agree with one piece of republican policy that you're a republican. We are advising you that it's an unintelligent and rather dense analogy that's incorrect.

I never said I don't agree with you. I would just have been smarter about my analogy. I never once stated I was for or against flight. Assumptions and, as previously stated, absolutes aren't good when having a discussion.

It's okay for you get defensive. Most people hate hearing the truth about their really bad analogies and assumptions and that it puts them in the simple category.

Use whatever analogy you choose to help you better understand that you, and others who agree with Blizzard, are in the anti-flight group. I'm just not one to sit here and listen to people straddle some fence like they want to be everyone's friend. You are either pro-flight, or anti-flight. Period. Flying either adds to the game, or it detracts from it. Period.

[Mafic]

Sounds like a laziness problem rather than a design problem.

WotLk and MoP were enjoyable to traverse Valley of Four Winds gets a bad rep because of the annoying 1/2 HP mobs but beyond that the zones in Pandaria were designed very similar to WotLK design.

And Uldum is by no means was it designed to be primarily flying zone for leveling purposes. That was the one zone where it was a ground oriented zone compared to the other Cata zones which heavily favored flying mounts for leveling.

[-Superman-]

Ironic that you call it a basic concept. It is entirely possible to agree with Blizzard on a given subject and be anti Blizzard on others. Most people fall into this category.

I never said agreeing with Blizzard made you a Blizzardist. I said agreeing with their position on Anti-flight puts you in the anti-flight group. You might also be anti-crz for all I know. Not that I really care since that is a topic for another thread. My main concern is calling it like I see it. In this thread, on this topic, if you side with Blizz, you are anti-flight. Plain and simple.

[Zoneseek]

The only thing I don't like about no flight is flight paths. Holy shit they are boring and tedious, the most prominent afk/alt tab bait in the game by far.

[Granyala]

Compare it to zone design from before. Surely there were few outliers, but usually zones and maps were quite straightforward.

Apart from a few mountain paths in Nagrand, they still are. Avianas trivializes any navigational obstacle.

[bufferunderrun]

the problem is that by removing fly blizzard saved developing time, so unless they take a wallet hit big enough to nullify the gain this will remain battle against the windmills.

[Ferocity]

Apart from a few mountain paths in Nagrand, they still are. Avianas trivializes any navigational obstacle.

That's if you have Inn, and it has 10 min cd and it has duration of 5 sec (from what I see). So many "ifs" and "buts", it makes it practical only if you are on very short venture in the world. It isn't answer to archeology, pet hunting, resource harvesting (yes, yes, I know...) and just freedom of traversing we had.

It also means that you need to build inn on whatever char you play and get lucky with daily, which you can get only at lv100.

[iperson]

People overcomplicate things. I like to simplify. Helps me cut through other people's bullshit.

Says the guy who can't seem to say "I want flying because it's faster and lets me skip stuff." in less than 4,000 words...

- - - Updated - - -

I never said agreeing with Blizzard made you a Blizzardist. I said agreeing with their position on Anti-flight puts you in the anti-flight group. You might also be anti-crz for all I know. Not that I really care since that is a topic for another thread. My main concern is calling it like I see it. In this thread, on this topic, if you side with Blizz, you are anti-flight. Plain and simple.

HMMM

According to the anti-flight camp in this thread, Blizz makes decisions about its game, and implements them to improve gameplay. Therefore, by their own logic, if Blizz made a lvl 90 boost to bring people up to speed to play in Draenor with friends, then the anti-flight group proves that a 90 boost is good gameplay because it was a decision made by Blizz and enforced by Blizz for the good of the game. If it were not good gameplay, Blizz would not have done it, as shown by their need to leave flight locked until possibly 6.2.

Which is it? You can agree with non-flight but disagree with other decisions or not?

As an aside, I think the level 90 boost was a great thing. Not trivializing current content and not forcing people to do 10 year old content before they can play with their friends are very different things.

I'd love to see them add some kind of compromise though. Something that allowed your flying mount to fly on a 15 minute CD or something (maybe even make it a craftable item with charges to give crafters something to do until they can add some new recipes.) It would add convenience without making the game essentially mount, fly to herb/mob/node/nub to gank rinse and repeat. I think there's middle ground to be found.

[Ferocity]

Says the guy who can't seem to say "I want flying because it's faster and lets me skip stuff." in less than 4,000 words...

Do you use ground mounts because they are faster (than on foot) and let you skip "stuff"?

Serious question, would you be glad if ground mounts were gone?

Edit: This question is basically for everyone who is against flying.

[iperson]

Do you use ground mounts because they are faster (than on foot) and let you skip "stuff"?

Serious question, would you be glad if ground mounts were gone?

Slippery slope arguments are for the simple minded. Why not ask me if I believe running should be removed as well?

[-Superman-]

Says the guy who can't seem to say "I want flying because it's faster and lets me skip stuff." in less than 4,000 words...

That's just it. I'm not trying to skip anything. I do EVERYTHING. I collect battle pets, fish in fishing pools, complete missed quests, do bonus missions, gather more for archaeology, help others with their quests, give people lifts from one hub to another on my Sandstone Drake and more. This is why you are not allowed to truncate my statements. You haven't got a clue about what I do with the capacity of flight.

Which is it? You can agree with non-flight but disagree with other decisions or not?

As an aside, I think the level 90 boost was a great thing. Not trivializing current content and not forcing people to do 10 year old content before they can play with their friends are very different things.

I'd love to see them add some kind of compromise though. Something that allowed your flying mount to fly on a 15 minute CD or something (maybe even make it a craftable item with charges to give crafters something to do until they can add some new recipes.) It would add convenience without making the game essentially mount, fly to herb/mob/node/nub to gank rinse and repeat. I think there's middle ground to be found.

Like I said, I am calling no one a Blizzardist, so disagree with as much of their policy and design as you like. But the moment you side with them on flight... you are in the Anti-flight group. Plain and simple, and I will not be repeating it. There is plenty of middle ground and compromise to be had. Now we just need a Gnomish Engineer to create a Developer's Lead-From-Ass and Head-From-Ass Extractor to use on the Devs and we are in business. Also, that piece you coated was dripping with Sarcasm. I would never admit Blizz ever had a good idea. They would nerf/remove it the next day.

[Ferocity]

Slippery slope arguments are for the simple minded. Why not ask me if I believe running should be removed as well?

Those arguments are no worse (I basically used one of same arguments) than arguments of "anti-flight" people.

We'd speak about running, if we couldn't use ground mounts :)

[iperson]

Those arguments are no worse (I basically used one of same arguments) than arguments of "anti-flight" people.

We'd speak about running, if we couldn't use ground mounts

You see, there's this giant chasm between flying and regular mounts. We wouldn't be having this discussion at all if you didn't believe there was, so to try and turn the discussion to ground mounts as if the 2 are comparable is intellectually dishonest at best.

[Ferocity]

You see, there's this giant chasm between flying and regular mounts. We wouldn't be having this discussion at all if you didn't believe there was, so to try and turn the discussion to ground mounts as if the 2 are comparable is intellectually dishonest at best.

Similar chasm is between ground mounts and running:
1. You can't outrun mobs.
2. You have more problems with terrain, as ground mounts can jump over bigger chasms and other obstacles. So you are even more bound toward 2D traversing.
3. It takes even more time to get from point A to point B for no justifiable reason.
That's basically what "anti-flight" people are warring for, no? Skipping content and speed.

Please, explain me, what is that something, that I miss?

[Granyala]

That's if you have Inn, and it has 10 min cd and it has duration of 5 sec

2 minutes (dependent on height of course). Used correctly you can traverse half the zone in a few seconds.

[Ferocity]

2 minutes (dependent on height of course). Used correctly you can traverse half the zone in a few seconds.

Still... it is poor man's solution...

Reminds me WotlK, when I was too greedy to buy flying for alt. Workarounds to get to important places in the world (e.g., Ulduar in progression) in the end persuaded me to buy flying. Similar situation was in MoP, so I had to buy flying for some alts.

WoD.... not many reasons to go "out in the world", but I really liked some zones (don't laugh - Spires of Arakk, except gnomes' part) and would like to traverse them on flying mount. I am one of those people who likes to mess with content in such way. I like to fly around, chatting with friends, doing random stuff, like gathering (not because I need ore, herbs, gold, just because I can and it is relaxing), etc. :)

[Deleted]

Similar chasm is between ground mounts and running:
1. You can't outrun mobs.
2. You have more problems with terrain, as ground mounts can jump over bigger chasms and other obstacles. So you are even more bound toward 2D traversing.
3. It takes even more time to get from point A to point B for no justifiable reason.
That's basically what "anti-flight" people are warring for, no? Skipping content and speed.

Please, explain me, what is that something, that I miss?

flying mount makes you able to fry from point A to B in one straight line flying over other players and thousand mobs making it a afk trip

it's not fun at all and makes the game more dull and less immersive plus it makes it more of a .. fly here, fly down, pick up this, fly away
while ground mount may require more fighting and planning using your environment

ground mounts makes it faster to get from point A to B but it's not done in one straight line and you can't afk it, you will run into other players and might have to outrun / kill mobs

[Granyala]

Still... it is poor man's solution...

Oh I agree.
I merely posted that because "navigation need to matter" is one of the favs of the "No flight" crowd.

[iperson]

Similar chasm is between ground mounts and running:
1. You can't outrun mobs.
2. You have more problems with terrain, as ground mounts can jump over bigger chasms and other obstacles. So you are even more bound toward 2D traversing.
3. It takes even more time to get from point A to point B for no justifiable reason.
That's basically what "anti-flight" people are warring for, no? Skipping content and speed.

Please, explain me, what is that something, that I miss?

There's a lot you missed, but based on the logic fails in your post above I'm afraid no one will be able to explain it in terms you can understand.

[Ferocity]

flying mount makes you able to fry from point A to B in one straight line flying over other players and thousand mobs making it a afk trip

it's not fun at all and makes the game more dull and less immersive plus it makes it more of a .. fly here, fly down, pick up this, fly away
while ground mount may require more fighting and planning using your environment

ground mounts makes it faster to get from point A to B but it's not done in one straight line and you can't afk it, you will run into other players and might have to outrun / kill mobs

World pvp (lol) aside, you can skip thousand mobs on ground mount, you can outrun them easily in most cases. So it is much more about going straight to point B, instead of methodically killing every trivial creature along way.

Dull and non-immersive is personal thing (and isn't it immersive to just run? On ground mount you skip a lot of details, you miss them because you move too fast, ignoring everything until point B), and those who don't like fly because of this, they always have option to use ground mounts.

No, I still don't get it. Try harder.

There's a lot you missed, but based on the logic fails in your post above I'm afraid no one will be able to explain it in terms you can understand.

That was concrete question. You are trying to avoid it. Explain me why flying vs ground mounts are so much different from ground mounts vs foot? Maybe you can't explain it to me, because there is nothing to explain and there is no justification to not having flying on Draenor?

Edit: And where is fail in my logic? That having to use various workarounds and walkarounds to get to same important places in the world are awful? It is fun 1st time around, when you level, and you level through most of the overworld content. 2nd+ time it becomes routine. Nothing "immersive", nothing new to see. And no danger (if WoW overworld mobs are dangerous for you, you need to rethink gaming in general).