Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Lane]

The only thing I don't like about no flight is flight paths. Holy shit they are boring and tedious, the most prominent afk/alt tab bait in the game by far.

Every time I fly out to Chillwind Point to do the daily there's always at least a dozen AFK players at the gryphon who I figured alt+tabbed as soon as they chose the destination from IF.

Slippery slope arguments are for the simple minded. Why not ask me if I believe running should be removed as well?

Except Ferocity has a point considering one of the major arguments for anti-flight is "skipping content". You're doing the exact same thing running through it on epic mounts. I mean, if mob density is content then I guess everyone should be on foot forced to fight everything they come near.

[Mafic]

the problem is that by removing fly blizzard saved developing time, so unless they take a wallet hit big enough to nullify the gain this will remain battle against the windmills.

Correct.

But I think their flying mount sales in their official store nose dived which is why they are floating trial balloons to offer other services through their store.

[melodramocracy]

Oh I agree.
I merely posted that because "navigation need to matter" is one of the favs of the "No flight" crowd.

Doesn't it?

Let me ask you, is it not valuable on some level knowing the fastest way to get to / from Undercity to Silvermoon? Or from Ironforge to Stormwind? How about what airships can bring you places from various main cities, etc?

It's all pretty much part of the same bucket whether you have flying or not.... learning your surroundings and the best ways to get around quickly, whether that be from one continent to the next, or knowing where all the instance entrances are in Blackrock Mountain, or knowing how to get around and traverse terrain in WoD's version of Nagrand. All of it is knowledge that (hopefully) comes with experience.

I'm honestly amazed that some folks in this thread ever made it to 60 to begin with, seeing what a dampener ground mounts are on their experience.

[rebecca191]

I made it to 60 on two characters in vanilla but I thought the travel was pretty bad, and that was before flying so I didn't know how much better it could be. I didn't really level alts much until the tome became available in WotLK and then I had like 6 85s in Cata because I loved flying while leveling.

[Mafic]

I made it to 60 on two characters in vanilla but I thought the travel was pretty bad, and that was before flying so I didn't know how much better it could be. I didn't really level alts much until the tome became available in WotLK and then I had like 6 85s in Cata because I loved flying while leveling.

WoW's travel system in vanilla was in line with what was coming out at the time (exception being City of Heroes). However when it was introduced in Burning Crusade it was a game changer. NCSOFT noticed this as they had millions of subs for Lineage 2 and started introducing flying mounts and flying ideas into their subsequent patches. It even prompted them to create Aion (flying oriented combat), which while wasn't well received in the west it was still a success in Korea. To be honest, I don't think we see Eve online if it wasn't for WoW pushing the MMO genre to three dimensions.

Looking at MMO's that don't have flying mounts, they tend to have to rely more on teleports/waypoints/scrolls of escapes/etc. This works fine in those games given they have dynamic world events (Rift), or they are supposed to be small scale (Guild Wars).

[iperson]

Except Ferocity has a point considering one of the major arguments for anti-flight is "skipping content". You're doing the exact same thing running through it on epic mounts. I mean, if mob density is content then I guess everyone should be on foot forced to fight everything they come near.

He only has a point if your position is that flying mounts aren't that different than ground mounts. If that's your position then why is there a problem? Oh wait, that's not your position, you accept that flying is a game changer, in a literal sense, and that's why you're so upset.

[Lane]

He only has a point if your position is that flying mounts aren't that different than ground mounts. If that's your position then why is there a problem? Oh wait, that's not your position, you accept that flying is a game changer, in a literal sense, and that's why you're so upset.

Not that you've bothered to keep up with anything I've said in this thread thus far, but to repeat myself again my 'position' is that travel in WoW sucks, period, with or without flying. Flying made it suck slightly less so. If I'm 'upset' about anything it's that I easily spend 50% (or more) of my game time just trying to get to a destination where I can actually play.

[Navitas]

the problem is that by removing fly blizzard saved developing time, so unless they take a wallet hit big enough to nullify the gain this will remain battle against the windmills.

Did they? Pretty sure they've already said that the devs didn't know there would be no flying until after 6.1. So the game was designed with flight in mind. Hence no time saved during development. So, this is untrue.

[Granyala]

Doesn't it?

Let me ask you, is it not valuable on some level knowing the fastest way to get to / from Undercity to Silvermoon? Or from Ironforge to Stormwind? How about what airships can bring you places from various main cities, etc?

It's all pretty much part of the same bucket whether you have flying or not.... learning your surroundings and the best ways to get around quickly, whether that be from one continent to the next, or knowing where all the instance entrances are in Blackrock Mountain, or knowing how to get around and traverse terrain in WoD's version of Nagrand. All of it is knowledge that (hopefully) comes with experience.

I'm honestly amazed that some folks in this thread ever made it to 60 to begin with, seeing what a dampener ground mounts are on their experience.

Yes of course such knowledge is important.
Well at least during leveling.
Later on, auto afk flightpaths or direct teleports replace any road you would travel via mount.

Fastest way from UC -> SM? I'd say the UC teleport orb... or if you have your HS linked to shrine HS -> portal.
HS -> portal is probably faster than waiting for the deeproads tram.

As for dungeon entrances: we get teleported. Why do you think your randoms stayed on the ground after a wipe in cata? Because they had 0 clue where the dungeon is located.
I also have 0 clue where Draenors dungeons are physically located, because I never had a reason to go there. Even after a wipe you don't run through the portal anymore, in case you haven't noticed.

Don't kid yourself: WoW is full of instant teleports and auto flightpaths, removing flight won't make the whole instanced vs. not instanced feel any less disjointed and surely won't teach anything new past leveling.

Oh and how the folks reached 60? They probably hated leveling and just pushed through it ASAP. Just a guess though since I'm not one of the flight dependent people.

[Chain Chungus]

This whole no flying craze was started by the Wildstar devs arguing the same exact argument we hear from Blizzard now, and Blizzard simply did what they always do: copy the competition in an attempt to outdo them at their own game.

Everything about this expansion screams Wildstar copying. From the no flying, to the housing/warplot fusion (garrisons), building like settlers (also garrisons), rare mob hunting, jumping puzzles, new models that look similar, going to another planet, some shared mob tagging, attempts at forcing world pvp, also attempts to force "hardcore" gaming, bonus objectives, crafting revamp, the Everbloom, etc. All these and more are examples of how this is WoWStar. It was also rushed out in an attempt to compete with that game even though it was thoroughly unfinished.

[Strawberry]

The only problem I have with no flying is that I get stuck in every little branch and rock. Frustrating.

[-Superman-]

This whole no flying craze was started by the Wildstar devs arguing the same exact argument we hear from Blizzard now, and Blizzard simply did what they always do: copy the competition in an attempt to outdo them at their own game.

Everything about this expansion screams Wildstar copying. From the no flying, to the housing/warplot fusion (garrisons), building like settlers (also garrisons), rare mob hunting, jumping puzzles, new models that look similar, going to another planet, some shared mob tagging, attempts at forcing world pvp, also attempts to force "hardcore" gaming, bonus objectives, crafting revamp, the Everbloom, etc. All these and more are examples of how this is WoWStar. It was also rushed out in an attempt to compete with that game even though it was thoroughly unfinished.

Fuck Wildstar. That overhyped piece of shit was a ginormous waste of time.

[Granyala]

Fuck Wildstar. That overhyped piece of shit was a ginormous waste of time.

I did get to lv 12... DAMN that questing was dull and generic. Don't even know why I actually bought it. :>

[Chain Chungus]

Fuck Wildstar. That overhyped piece of shit was a ginormous waste of time.

The sad thing is WoW copied it for no reason in the end, as Wildstar defeated itself within a short period of time.

[Elim Garak]

Wildstar was ok, I leveled to the max. Hoverboard rules, and their fastest ground mounts are faster than wow's, not to mention the other means of travel especially if you are an explorer. Not to mention double jump. So though they didn't have flying they did everything to ease the pain.

The only problem of Wildstar it is TOO hardcore. and I mean WoW Vanilla hardcore. That is a bad kind of hardcore. Nothing to do at max level.

[Granyala]

The only problem of Wildstar it is TOO hardcore. and I mean WoW Vanilla hardcore.

Yup. I chuckled and already saw the ship sink when I heard the DEVs talk about "hardcore" stuff.

Lets face it: difficult-only games don't fly very well anno 2014. The bulk of gamers have changed a lot.

[-Superman-]

I did get to lv 12... DAMN that questing was dull and generic. Don't even know why I actually bought it. :>

IKR? My buyer's remorse only took 3 hours to appear.

[Anzaman]

As for dungeon entrances: we get teleported. Why do you think your randoms stayed on the ground after a wipe in cata? Because they had 0 clue where the dungeon is located.
I also have 0 clue where Draenors dungeons are physically located, because I never had a reason to go there. Even after a wipe you don't run through the portal anymore, in case you haven't noticed.

Well, we did have to go to the dungeon entrance and locate it before we were able to queue there in Cataclysm.

And as for Draenor -dungeons, sometime ago before Inn -dailies were changed, my friend suggested going in and bubble-HS'ing out after obtaining the item. Then we bumped to issue that we had no clue where Grimrail Depot -dungeon entrance is, haha. So we just ended up queue'ing there and doing the whole instance, as leaving after looting the item is kinda dick.

- - - Updated - - -

I did get to lv 12... DAMN that questing was dull and generic. Don't even know why I actually bought it. :>

I liked WildStar, but my friends didn't... so back to WoW.

[-Superman-]

Well, we did have to go to the dungeon entrance and locate it before we were able to queue there in Cataclysm.

And as for Draenor -dungeons, sometime ago before Inn -dailies were changed, my friend suggested going in and bubble-HS'ing out after obtaining the item. Then we bumped to issue that we had no clue where Grimrail Depot -dungeon entrance is, haha. So we just ended up queue'ing there and doing the whole instance, as leaving after looting the item is kinda dick.

- - - Updated - - -


I liked WildStar, but my friends didn't... so back to WoW.

That was only in Beta. Once it went live, you could just queue as you saw fit. Never even had to step foot into Hyjal or Vash'jir. Just had to be lvl 80.

[ssviolett]

Everything about this expansion screams Wildstar copying

Ahahah, you are so right! Few days ago when I invited my friend to play WoW and after we got to Shadowmoon Valley he asked me, wtf this is looks like so much like Wildstar we just left? He left the game after that

- - - Updated - - -

I did get to lv 12... DAMN that questing was dull and generic. Don't even know why I actually bought it. :>

12?? Damn you, you are weak!

I got to lvl 14 xD

Wasted about 40 bucks on that