Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Cthulhu 2020]

That's a bunch of garbage and you know it. In order to get a representative sample of any kind, you need to poll people who are relevant to the question. Since you are asking if you are enjoying no flight in WoD, you need to be playing the game. You also need to be sure to only allow one vote per account, not by IP address. You don't know if that is 220,000 people of 110,000 from two IPs. These things matter.

For example: When they poll for Presidential voting, they only poll people who are eligible to vote. You don't ask the grade school kids who they are voting for, unless the question being asked is 'How do grade school children vote'.

So....maybe a logic course should be in order first. Then when they can agree that they aren't going to lie about the results to their predetermined outcome, they can take a statistics class or two.

Again......you can be happy with no flight. Stop making up items. Especially when you're factually incorrect about them.

And poll tampering can be done by either side. What kind of agenda do you think someone poll tampering has to alter an MMOC poll?

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I'd be for flying in Draenor in a future patch. Patch 7.0 that is. So I guess I'm one of those people who wants it in a future patch.

[rda]

I'd be for flying in Draenor in a future patch. Patch 7.0 that is. So I guess I'm one of those people who wants it in a future patch.

Good, and I am one of those who would answer "yes, I have been fine without flying because I was leveling" in your 220,000 people poll.

[Sweetpeaz]

And poll tampering can be done by either side. What kind of agenda do you think someone poll tampering has to alter an MMOC poll?

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I'd be for flying in Draenor in a future patch. Patch 7.0 that is. So I guess I'm one of those people who wants it in a future patch.

It's not poll tampering when it's not meant to be an official poll anyway. It's an opinion of people who frequent this site, not of people who are playing.

You are taking an opinion of this site and extrapolating that into an opinion for the game. So maybe you're the one who's tampering with the results.

Edit: I like no flight during the leveling process. At max level the lack of flight is just puts a spotlight on how little content there is in WoD.

[Ordinator]

If you aren't dealing with a sample indicative of anything close to the player base, your poll information is utterly useless.

It also doesn't give you any intellectual honesty to say that subs were up at the beginning of the expansion, therefore, it must be because of no flight.

I get it, you like no flight. You don't have to make up things to further that point. In fact, that makes your argument look worst. Just say you like it and be done with it.

Then why doesn't the pro flight group stand up and say something to Barkloud when he goes on and on and on and on about forum upvotes? Isn't it the same exact deal.

It's because, as stated, anything that shows favor to no flight is illegitimate to pro flyers. But they still get to parade their DEFINITELY illegitimate arguments till the end of days.

[Deleted]

Yes I think linking posts that have hundreds of up votes supporting flying and hundreds of down votes on anti flying posts show support for flying. The only support I have found for anti flying is the 10 or 15 people here who bash people who post about flying.

We already told you 6 times, we don't care about polls. We don't care what a bunch of kids on 4chan are linking saying "vote this down!". You do, but Blizzard doesn't, and any reasonable person doesn't take polling via the internet serious because it can be easily manipulated. Stop using it as an argument, nobody's gonna take it serious.

Like it or not people want flying back.

People also like to use heroin or are member of Church of Scientology

Yeah, sure, some people do. You sound like Fox News.

Reputation farming: Blizz did not only take away all gameplay relevance of reputations, they also took away all previously existing, more convenient ways to farm reputations.

Bravo, and those two decisions go hand in hand.

They could have implemented reputation gains in heroics via mob killing, these would make instances last some longer.

You don't have to grind to rep farm, you can just gradually get the rep over time. There isn't important things locked behind rep farm. The rewards, such as a follower, mount, or pet isn't mandatory for raiding or PvP.

Blizzard doesn't want you to grind daily dungeons, they want you to do LFR and then progress through Normal and Heroic. If you want a challenge in dungeons, you should do CMs. The dungeons in the first weeks were also a lot more of a grind cause of personal loot and there not being a guaranteed reward on last boss. They also didn't like rep gain from dungeon.

Flying: Does not hurt farming because nobody does farming.

It does hurt bots who'd farm otherwise.

Does hurt platforming - but the only platforming that has been truly relevant for me was the taming of mounts via stables - and they could have easily implemented the limitation of "can only be used while on a ground mount".

Its been relevant in a lot of questing for me, rep grinding (I did do some), daily quests, traveling to world bosses, killing elites.

Aviana's feather damages PvP more than a flying mount ever could, because it can be used in combat.

On a 10 minute CD, and you have access to it as well. You could race each other...

Such a world needs consistency, and WoD does not have any in this regard.

It doesn't? Why? Cause you say so?

Last thing: Please tell me, how does not flying makes a world more populated?

Because people need to stay on the ground and travel via choke points. You actually get to meet other people that way.

Leveling is grounded, but when it ends? I like flying, I spend most of my time in areas where I can do so - which deletes me from the world people with no flight are experiencing.

Every expansion there are people who keep living in the past. There are still tons of raids going on for SoO right now in the Group Finder. Those people are still in a minority though. I don't think the game's missing out on a few people who are lost in old world trying to find each other on their flying mount. The vast majority of the players are simply playing WoD, in Draenor or Draenor's instances.

Remember I said I asked in /g if anyone missed flying? We are also a guild composed of quite some long-term players who have raided hardcore and now sit back and relax a more casual schedule. Those people, even with the server issues, loved the lvling in this expansion the most of all expansions. Especially the TBC players loved the Nagrand area, and area where you need to use travel quite a bit. I spend countless hours in Nagrand, and of course at times it was frustrating, but that's cool cause without any limitations there isn't going to be a reward.

After reading Bashiok's post about no flying,

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6539?page=5#82

which I find informative I wouldn't have stayed subscribed after killing Garrosh if no flying in Draenor was a dealbreaker for me. That post is from end of april. Surely, if you're anti flying, you could've catched up on that and figured you shouldn't keep a sub running refreshing every 6 months, or 3 months.

We even have:

yet, we have yet to receive an answer as to when flying will be implemented, if at all. sounds to me like not at all.

We don't know. We don't purport to have definitive answers for anything, especially before we've even begun external testing.

They didn't know, its an experiment, not a conspiracy. The experiment is positive, else they would've flat out introduced flying in 6.1 ASAP. Not only are they not doing that, they're saying it probably won't be introduced at all.

Once you reach 100 the quests available (ie: garrison "campaign" and apexis dailies, because there is fuck all else to do)

There's a lot more to do once you reach level 100. I already posted about that, I'll repeat it once again:

1) World bosses.
2) Killing all elites.
3) Finishing all quests.
4) Treasures.
5) Achievements.
6) Pet battles.
7) wPvP.

If you don't like any of that, and you don't like raiding or PvP, why stay subscribed? Why are you stealing 15 USD a month from yourself playing a game where you're bored? You'd be better of donating it to something you support.

[Cthulhu 2020]

It's not poll tampering when it's not meant to be an official poll anyway. It's an opinion of people who frequent this site, not of people who are playing.

You are taking an opinion of this site and extrapolating that into an opinion for the game. So maybe you're the one who's tampering with the results.

Edit: I like no flight during the leveling process. At max level the lack of flight is just puts a spotlight on how little content there is in WoD.

I still don't get what your point is and you have yet to answer my question. What about MMOC exactly makes it bias towards the pro-flight crowd?

You somehow think everyone who's in the game playing and not moaning on forums are much much much more displeased with no flight??

[Sweetpeaz]

Then why doesn't the pro flight group stand up and say something to Barkloud when he goes on and on and on and on about forum upvotes? Isn't it the same exact deal.

It's because, as stated, anything that shows favor to no flight is illegitimate to pro flyers. But they still get to parade their DEFINITELY illegitimate arguments till the end of days.

Well at least to post or upvote in the forum you have to have an active game sub, and you can only do it once per account. So it's at least doing something about the integrity of the data being gathered.

[rda]

Then why doesn't the pro flight group stand up and say something to Barkloud when he goes on and on and on and on about forum upvotes? Isn't it the same exact deal.

It's because, as stated, anything that shows favor to no flight is illegitimate to pro flyers. But they still get to parade their DEFINITELY illegitimate arguments till the end of days.

Posts for flying on the official forums do get heavily upvoted all the time at least on the US (on the EU there were threads where the opposite was the case).

I have always said that it looks like the players at large don't care much about flying or no flying *right now, with WoD that we have*. I have always said that polls routinely go both ways, that neither "I want flying" nor "I don't want flying" wins definitively.

I think there's an argument to be made that this means that flying would be best left alone - because whoever is supporting flying now is supporting it because they like it, while those who vote "I am fine with no flying" are a mix of those who are genuinely against flying and those who just express their trust in Blizzard - but that's a different matter.

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We already told you 6 times, we don't care about polls.

The Batman seems to care about polls, no?

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[Flying ...] does hurt bots who'd farm otherwise.

L. O. L.

This isn't the case.

[Ordinator]

Thank you pro flyers for proving my point faster than I anticipated.

[Sweetpeaz]

I still don't get what your point is and you have yet to answer my question. What about MMOC exactly makes it bias towards the pro-flight crowd?

You somehow think everyone who's in the game playing and not moaning on forums are much much much more displeased with no flight??

I think there are some regional differences here too.

The EU playerbase is more heavily PVP oriented compared to North American realms, which are 60/40 PVE.

This next one is note meant to be inflammatory at all. But in the US, a working adult may have a job that requires them to work 50 hours a week or more. In the EU, because of the labor rules, you may be limited to a work week of 35 hours (I work weekly with many people from Germany, and they are not allowed to work overtime of any nature). This also doesn't take into account youth unemployment numbers in the EU.

When I look at the top guilds in the world a significant portion of them are from EU, which leads me to believe that they take the game a little more seriously than our US folks. Yet...the US folks have a distinct population advantage, because US and Asia are a majority of players, that leaves the EU as a distant third in population metrics.

But I don't think either the US or Asia crowd hold much of a candle to the EU players in their fervor towards the game.

This is all guess work, with very little other than realm pop numbers, and guild rankings.

[rda]

Thank you pro flyers for proving my point faster than I anticipated.

Which point was that and how was it proved?

[Cthulhu 2020]

PThe Batman seems to care about polls, no?

Only insomuch as people keep claiming that they're in the majority when they say most people want flight back. When they're proven wrong the excuses start flying.

[rda]

There's a lot more to do once you reach level 100. I already posted about that, I'll repeat it once again:

1) World bosses.
2) Killing all elites.
3) Finishing all quests.
4) Treasures.
5) Achievements.
6) Pet battles.
7) wPvP.

If you don't like any of that, and you don't like raiding or PvP, why stay subscribed? Why are you stealing 15 USD a month from yourself playing a game where you're bored? You'd be better of donating it to something you support.

For perspective, please note that everything that you have listed above, save for achievements and "wPVP", which is boring, skilless and stupid (I did it too much to know), is finished in a week, at the very most, two weeks of playing 2 hours per evening, after getting to 100.

[Deleted]

I think there's an argument to be made that this means that flying would be best left alone

Left alone in the previous content you mean, sure.

because whoever is supporting flying now is supporting it because they like it, while those who vote "I am fine with no flying" are a mix of those who are genuinely against flying and those who just express their trust in Blizzard - but that's a different matter.

Right now we don't have flying, so its best to keep it that way.[/quote]I see, there are no people who like flying but don't want it back. OK, I am one of those, I like flying (I liked flying to Ulduar), but I don't want it introduced in Draenor while the content is current. Whatever happens after that I don't care cause once the expansion is over, the content is irrelevant and you should've subscribed while the content was current for the experience.

The Batman seems to care about polls, no?

Yup, that person is trying to explain why those polls are statistically relevant. I admit they are likely more relevant, but I still don't care much about polls. I care about the logic behind the reasoning instead, not some kind of swarm zerg cause the majority is often right while experts are right. Joe Average is wrong on a lot of subjects...

This isn't the case.

Yes, it is. Not only is it more lucrative to fly, killing those bots in wPvP is hard in a flying world. In a non flying world its far easier. The garrison also nerfed the prices though, so I suppose there are garrison bots out there right now and while those compete with the honest among us via the AH, they don't compete for resources in the world.

Well at least to post or upvote in the forum you have to have an active game sub, and you can only do it once per account. So it's at least doing something about the integrity of the data being gathered.

Apparently there are masses who have an active sub and hate flying. I suppose they're around on all kind of forums.

[rda]

Yes, it is. Not only is it more lucrative to fly, killing those bots in wPvP is hard in a flying world. In a non flying world its far easier. The garrison also nerfed the prices though, so I suppose there are garrison bots out there right now and while those compete with the honest among us via the AH, they don't compete for resources in the world.

You don't know what you are talking about. Bots don't care about flying, it is easy for them to both fly and go on ground. Bot's efficiency with flying in terms of nodes per hour is higher, but so is players'. Your "wPVP" doesn't exist in material amounts, and when a bot is killed, it's only set back a couple of minutes.

[Baconeggcheese]

When they're proven wrong the excuses start flying.

Iseewhatyoudidthere.

[Sweetpeaz]

Apparently there are masses who have an active sub and hate flying. I suppose they're around on all kind of forums.

Well.....there are limited ways to give feedback. In the end, while I applaud people giving their opinions, I feel the only metric that Blizzard cares about is whether or not you are unhappy enough to unsub.

If you stay, regardless of how unhappy, you are contributing to the problem. Basically, those people in the forums arguing for flight, are doing so in the hopes that Blizzard will listen....I'm saying, they will not listen until their bottom line is impacted.

[Deleted]

For perspective, please note that everything that you have listed above, save for achievements and "wPVP", which is boring, skilless and stupid (I did it too much to know), is finished in a week, at the very most, two weeks of playing 2 hours per evening, after getting to 100.

2 hrs a day every day for 2 weeks is a lot of time IMO. Once you get to 100, it appeared according to recent MMO Champion data people start doing dungeons and LFR. Even Normal. If you don't like the raid, nor are into PvP, then there isn't much reason to stick around. You're probably better off unsubscribing.

I do 8 btw; I level up alts.

[Ordinator]

Which point was that and how was it proved?

That pro flyers will call illegitimate sources (forum upvotes) legitimate if it supports their agenda.

[rda]

2 hrs a day every day for 2 weeks is a lot of time IMO. Once you get to 100, it appeared according to recent MMO Champion data people start doing dungeons and LFR. Even Normal. If you don't like the raid, nor are into PvP, then there isn't much reason to stick around. You're probably better off unsubscribing.

I do 8 btw; I level up alts.

Alright, if 2 hours a day for 2 weeks is a lot of time, then WoD definitely has a lot of content. Regrettably, many players think that 2 hours a day is playing casually and if the content other than raids and PVP dries up in 2 weeks of playing casually, it's not good. Just in case, MoP had much more content than for 2 weeks, compare pet battle content alone and you will see why.