1. #4201
    lol are people really saying no flying at the beginning of the expansion will cause them to not play the game? If flying is that important to you in a game where flying isn't that huge of a factor, why not go buy a flight simulating game? You can fly all you want. Every single expansion has been like this, it's not a huge deal.

  2. #4202
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    PvP happens on PvP servers? Oh wait. That's right. That's part of the reason I left mine so many years ago. That, and an asshat named ANGWE. An orc rogue who DOMINATED Menethil Harbor all by himself.

    On Topic: Flying mounts help players who are stuck on their stunlock servers to avoid at least a few asshats. If this does become a permanent thing, I pitty those people the most.
    Nobody is stuck there. If they keep losing they can get friends to help or they can get good. Otherwise they can leave.

  3. #4203
    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    They'd be just as hypocritical as the people that hate flying with a passion but still fly... There are a few of those people in this thread.
    No. How is it hypocritical to "not like" flying mounts but have to use them because they are incredibly more efficient than ground mounts are in the current game?

    This is far different than stomping one's feet and telling Blizzard to go suck a lemon because they aren't developing a new continent to use flying mounts, then 5 minutes later go sign up to play a game that doesn't even have flying mounts period.

    I mean, is flying important to them or not? If it's that important, then I would think it would be a requirement for them to enjoy other games too.

  4. #4204
    Quote Originally Posted by Njtobknets View Post
    lol are people really saying no flying at the beginning of the expansion will cause them to not play the game? If flying is that important to you in a game where flying isn't that huge of a factor, why not go buy a flight simulating game? You can fly all you want. Every single expansion has been like this, it's not a huge deal.
    no every single expansion has not been like this, have you even played WoW before?

  5. #4205
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    Yet that is how it works in-game at this very moment.

    Aside from mining herbs/ore, there is little to no reason to be flying around Pandaria and the most recent additions for alts to use to gear up are no-flight anyway.

    World of Queuecraft for LFR/LFD requires no flying mounts.
    Pandaria is still new content... There are people that still join today and play. There are people that are hunting down mounts, doing dailies, leveling alts, pet battles, archaeology, flying to raid, enjoying the scenery, mining, herb gathering, doing achievements, etc... Don't tell me pandaria is outdated when it's current content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    No. How is it hypocritical to "not like" flying mounts but have to use them because they are incredibly more efficient than ground mounts are in the current game?

    This is far different than stomping one's feet and telling Blizzard to go suck a lemon because they aren't developing a new continent to use flying mounts, then 5 minutes later go sign up to play a game that doesn't even have flying mounts period.

    I mean, if flying important to them or not? If it's that important, then I would think it would be a requirement for them to enjoy other games too.
    There is only one reason why you would fly if you hate it, and there are many reasons to not fly. If you have more fun grounded than why are you flying?
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyray View Post
    what? you can knock people off ground mounts with auto attack.

  6. #4206
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashrael View Post
    someone's convenience is a bad word here.
    As someone could say "It is so much more convenient to kill people when they don't fly. Don't take my convenience away with 6.1 flying."
    Well, they should have thought of that before introducing flying mounts on PvP servers.

  7. #4207
    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    Pandaria is still new content... There are people that still join today and play. There are people that are hunting down mounts, doing dailies, leveling alts, pet battles, archaeology, flying to raid, enjoying the scenery, mining, herb gathering, doing achievements, etc... Don't tell me pandaria is outdated when it's current content.
    Considering that we are on 5.4 - what was released in 5.0 is mostly horizontally progressive stuff. If people are just building characters to get into endgame, there is very little for them out in Pandaria that cannot be looted from Timeless Isle (no-flight) to get them into LFR / Flex to get themselves geared up.

    At this point in the expansion cycle, the Pandaria open world is only relevant content primarily because that be where the current herbs/ore are gathered from. Almost everything else would be done for story/lore/grins.

    There is only one reason why you would fly if you hate it, and there are many reasons to not fly. If you have more fun grounded than why are you flying?
    Why would you drive a car if you prefer riding a bicycle?

    It's more efficient and a detriment if you don't. If I don't use a flying mount in the current game, then I am quite literally shooting myself in the foot if I even want to pretend to gather herbs/ore at a reasonable rate. There is no way I can compete with others to get nodes on a ground mount moving at 100% and dealing with mob agro when everyone else is flying at 450% with their /godmode toggled on.

    I'll also stab out there that this is another thing that GW2 got right - personal node spawns. Took some getting used to.
    Last edited by Raeln; 2014-03-25 at 03:23 PM.

  8. #4208
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    Considering that we are on 5.4 - what was released in 5.0 is mostly horizontally progressive stuff. If people are just building characters to get into endgame, there is very little for them out in Pandaria that cannot be looted from Timeless Isle (no-flight) to get them into LFR / Flex to get themselves geared up.

    At this point in the expansion cycle, the Pandaria open world is only relevant content primarily because that be where the current herbs/ore are gathered from. Almost everything else would be done for story/lore/grins.
    Not everyone plays to raid, champ. Blizzard released numbers close to 50% of the player base has done at least one raid boss this expansion. What does the other 50% do when raiding isn't their concern? Oh, that's right, they do open world stuff and PvP.
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyray View Post
    what? you can knock people off ground mounts with auto attack.

  9. #4209
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Well, they should have thought of that before introducing flying mounts on PvP servers.
    There's a number of things they should have thought of before making PvP server rulesets.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    Not everyone plays to raid, champ. Blizzard released numbers close to 50% of the player base has done at least one raid boss this expansion. What does the other 50% do when raiding isn't their concern? Oh, that's right, they do open world stuff and PvP.
    Don't make the mistake of just assuming that everyone expects a flying mount to do that stuff though.

    With the number of the games out there that haven't touched flying - I can safely conclude that market research and focus group testing is telling them that most players don't care a whit about flying mounts.

    My suspicion is if Blizzard put some type of waypoint system in, the majority of their playerbase would probably rejoice that they don't have to spend so much time in the air moving from point A to point B.

  10. #4210
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    Why would you drive a car if you prefer riding a bicycle?

    It's more efficient and a detriment if you don't. If I don't use a flying mount in the current game, then I am quite literally shooting myself in the foot if I even want to pretend to gather herbs/ore at a reasonable rate. There is no way I can compete with others to get nodes on a ground mount moving at 100% and dealing with mob agro when everyone else is flying at 450% with their /godmode toggled on.

    I'll also stab out there that this is another thing that GW2 got right - personal node spawns. Took some getting used to.
    I don't drive a car... I actually do prefer a bike. Bad analogy. There are actually good reasons to not drive a car. Like the cost of gas and the damage you do the environment.

    Flying isn't godmode if everyone can do it and it doesn't effect the actually game play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    Don't make the mistake of just assuming that everyone expects a flying mount to do that stuff though.

    With the number of the games out there that haven't touched flying - I can safely conclude that market research and focus group testing is telling them that most players don't care a whit about flying mounts.

    My suspicion is if Blizzard put some type of waypoint system in, the majority of their playerbase would probably rejoice that they don't have to spend so much time in the air moving from point A to point B.
    I don't care what other games do, and I am not assuming anything here.

    You can't safely conclude that at all. WTF, Now who is assuming? Can you provide stats and links to this market research?
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyray View Post
    what? you can knock people off ground mounts with auto attack.

  11. #4211
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    LOL this thread is still going. How fun you all must be having . I know I am!

    I don't even care about no flying, just let me get my hands on the updated Draenai models and get nostalgic over Karabor Temple. Please Blizzard, just let me live there.
    I am KickButtMario. I kick butt because I am Mario. The coolest, longest, living, protagonist out there in the video game industry.

  12. #4212
    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    I don't drive a car... I actually do prefer a bike. Bad analogy. There are actually good reasons to not drive a car. Like the cost of gas and the damage you do the environment.
    I have no such choice. My job is just a bit further than I can ride a bicycle and it would be unsafe to do so with so many cars on the road.

    On top of that, the weather can change on a dime here.

    The point was, the car is like a flying mount - it is nearly infinitely more advantageous for transportation than a bicycle is. In TBC, it was also massively more expensive to acquire flying mounts/licenses than the ground mount was, though that is quickly overlooked because of how gold income has grown. You can get enough in gold from just finishing off the MoP quests at 90 on a single character to buy multiple alts their epic flight licenses.

    Flying isn't godmode if everyone can do it and it doesn't effect the actually game play.
    Flying is /godmode. If you get killed while on a flying mount, you either was AFK, stupid or just not paying attention. With the exception of a very few mechanics that force dismount, you can simply spacebar your way out of any combat and at above 60 yards, there's not a mob anywhere that will attack you.

    It is the closest thing to /godmode that you can get in WoW without having GM status.
    Last edited by Raeln; 2014-03-25 at 03:37 PM.

  13. #4213
    I don't mind no flying to be honest, consider it like this, if raiding had flying involved, most would say it would be ruined, as you'd just skip everything and fly to the boss. Ditto with battle grounds and arenas, if flying could be used, both would be ruined, as you could stay on your mount the whole match, or just wait until an advantage presents itself and swoop in. I think maybe that's kind of why they took it out, questing, gathering at nodes.... none of that stuff is very interesting nowadays. At least with no flying, the opportunity for world pvp and actually having to avoid mobs will happen.

  14. #4214
    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    I don't care what other games do, and I am not assuming anything here.

    You can't safely conclude that at all. WTF, Now who is assuming? Can you provide stats and links to this market research?
    I sure can assume that.

    You can bet your next year's worth of paychecks that if other MMORPG franchises thought they could get significant gains in subscribers by adding flight, they would immediately.

    You don't find it the least bit strange that most of those other MMORPGs try to clone nearly every aspect of WoW - from combat to crafting, from LFD to raiding - yet oddly, almost every single MMORPG out there avoids flying.

    You don't find that strange? That speaks volumes to me buddy. That means it's a "no-no" in the MMORPG development world. That means the ROI on flying is terrible and that market testing/sampling/focus group testing is showing that the majority of MMORPG players don't care about it.

  15. #4215
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    I have no such choice. My job is just a bit further than I can ride a bicycle and it would be unsafe to do so with so many cars on the road.

    On top of that, the weather can change on a dime here.

    The point was, the car is like a flying mount - it is nearly infinitely more advantageous for transportation than a bicycle is. In TBC, it was also massively more expensive to acquire flying mounts/licenses than the ground mount was, though that is quickly overlooked because of how gold income has grown. You can get enough in gold from just finishing off the MoP quests at 90 on a single character to buy multiple alts their epic flight licenses.
    And yet you want to force everyone onto a bicycle

  16. #4216
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    I have no such choice. My job is just a bit further than I can ride a bicycle and it would be unsafe to do so with so many cars on the road.

    On top of that, the weather can change on a dime here.

    The point was, the car is like a flying mount - it is nearly infinitely more advantageous for transportation than a bicycle is. In TBC, it was also massively more expensive to acquire flying mounts/licenses than the ground mount was, though that is quickly overlooked because of how gold income has grown. You can get enough in gold from just finishing off the MoP quests at 90 on a single character to buy multiple alts their epic flight licenses.



    Flying is /godmode. If you get killed while on a flying mount, you either was AFK, stupid or just not paying attention. With the exception of a very mechanics that force dismount, you can simply spacebar your way out of any combat and at above 60 yards, there's not a mob anywhere that will attack you.

    It is the closest thing to /godmode that you can get in WoW without having GM status.
    If you die on a ground mount you're either AFK stupid or not paying attention. Its rare to get dismounted by another player but I guess that can happen still. Other than that its the same as flying in terms of you actually dieing. Only place its a bit riskier is timeless isle and thats only due to the mobs being brutal on squishy people.

  17. #4217
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    It is the closest thing to /godmode that you can get in WoW without having GM status.
    Actually, that would be a Rogue. /stealth and /vanish. You can't hit what you can't see.

  18. #4218
    Quote Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
    I have no such choice. My job is just a bit further than I can ride a bicycle and it would be unsafe to do so with so many cars on the road.

    On top of that, the weather can change on a dime here.

    The point was, the car is like a flying mount - it is nearly infinitely more advantageous for transportation than a bicycle is. In TBC, it was also massively more expensive to acquire than the ground mount was, though that is quickly overlooked because of how gold income has grown. You can get enough in gold from just finishing off the MoP quests at 90 on a single character to buy multiple alts their epic flight licenses.

    Flying is /godmode. If you get killed while on a flying mount, you either was AFK, stupid or just not paying attention. With the exception of a very mechanics that force dismount, you can simply spacebar your way out of any combat and at above 60 yards, there's not a mob anywhere that will attack you.

    It is the closest thing to /godmode that you can get in WoW without having GM status.
    I can escape all encounters against players and NPCs in this game without flying. I guess I am a god. I ride 20 miles to work on bike, but the weather here is pretty good.

    I was dirt poor in classic(not even a thousand gold throughout the two years of gathering it), the first to level 70 in TBC on my server, and I was still able to purchase flying a day after I dinged 70. Why are you people lying about how easy/hard it was to get flying mounts back then?
    Last edited by urasim; 2014-03-25 at 03:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyray View Post
    what? you can knock people off ground mounts with auto attack.

  19. #4219
    Quote Originally Posted by Karragon View Post
    And yet you want to force everyone onto a bicycle
    Not really.

    Had you been reading my position throughout this thread, you'd know that I am more in favor of simply nerfing flying mounts in some way so that there is actually a meaningful decision to be made about which mount would be better to use depending on the situation.

    I have no problem with flying mounts remaining the choice for long distance travel and ground mounts remaining the choice for short distance travel - as in, fly to the questing area, then use ground mounts while doing your business around the hub.

    As it is though, once you train flying mounts and buy one - you may as well just remove and delete all your ground mounts. You'll never need them again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    If you die on a ground mount you're either AFK stupid or not paying attention. Its rare to get dismounted by another player but I guess that can happen still. Other than that its the same as flying in terms of you actually dieing. Only place its a bit riskier is timeless isle and thats only due to the mobs being brutal on squishy people.
    Unless you are a tank - you can get dazed from ground mounts. You cannot on a flying mount.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Actually, that would be a Rogue. /stealth and /vanish. You can't hit what you can't see.
    /eyesquint

    Are we talking about a PvP server again? If we are, then several classes have abilities to nullify stealth after the few seconds of immunity Vanish is "supposed to provide".

  20. #4220
    At least they are starting to acknowledge flight is gone, from this mornings MMO-CHAMPION main page:

    Player: We cant fly in warlord's how do we solve issues like this.
    Blizzard: A) We don't intend to have bugs like that. B) I just said 'fly' as that's what's common now. 'Ride' does the same thing. (Celestalon)

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