1. #5221
    Can you guys just get over it, please? Most rational peoples response is, 'meh, I don't care much either way'. Cause it's really not a big deal.

  2. #5222
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Can you guys just get over it, please? Most rational peoples response is, 'meh, I don't care much either way'. Cause it's really not a big deal.
    I don't get you people with this type of attitude. If you have an issue which is really important to you, and you take multiple occasions to speak out about it because you find it's very important to you, why does it gnaw at you so hard that other people have other issues which matter for them just as much? Why can't you get over it but we have to get over it?

    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    My concern is that the world will end up being too flat in order to enable you to access things they want you to access without flying. Maybe it won't be, but I like the idea that there's stuff on top of mountains that you can't access without flying. Rare items to find, max-level quests, rare mobs, whatever.

    EX: a lot of the old world (even after the revamp) and BC feels flat. Everything you need to do can be accessed by horse with only a couple exceptions for end-game content (raids, Netherwing dailies). Wrath feels the same in the pre-77 leveling zones, Borean Tundra, Howling Fjord, Zul'whatever, Dragonblight. After those zones, the Storm Peaks and Icecrown are very vertical zones, where a great deal of the zone is missed or simply inaccessible if you can't fly. Cata was sorta 50/50, the zones integrated with the old world, Uldum, Hyjal and Twilight Highlands, were also very flat, even though you could fly right away in the new old world, there was very little vertical design to them. Deepholm and the Naga lands (swimming is basically flying underwater) had a lot of *drumroll* depth to them, there was a lot of hidden caves, cliffs and other things that made the world feel very 3D.

    MoP seemed designed for flying from the first zone. There was a LOT of vertical pillars, cliffs, hills and it only increased once you got out of the starting areas (Jade Forest, Karasang Wilds, Valley of the Four Winds), it only became more 3D.

    So I think there's enough evidence to say that zones that are designed without flying have a history of being flatter in order to enable mount-based access. I find this to be more personally jarring to my experience in the game than not seeing other people out. World's are not flat, making them unrealistically so in order to allow ground-mounts to get everywhere just makes things dumb, IMO.

    So anyway, that's really my concern about a flying-less Draenor. Sure we might get flying once 6.1 comes, but that doesn't feel certain. So far the Dev posts on the subject have been "we'll see how it goes." not "yes you're getting flight in 6.1 for sure". So I'm not holding my breath.
    This is very valid, I think we would have a very different northern Draenor much more similar to Blade's Edge, at least in height, if not spikes, than what I've seen now, which looks like a long flat plane similar to "Bore"-an Tundra. While pandaria starting zone seemed to be designed with flight in mind, I wouldn't really say the same for the rest:

    - Farmville valley: flatline central, safe for the little rapist-monkey hills.

    - Mountain place: 60% flat except for the mountain and temple. The hidden Troll zone was a VERY nice touch, it added contrast to an otherwise "plane" zone.

    - Qiraji 2.0 place: I liked the places where the trees rose higher, otherwise once again, flatey-flat.

    - Green pastures Tauren 2.0 place: that was ok, not gonna nitpick.

    - Jungle place: that was actually REALLY cool, I haven't felt that lost in a zone since STV, I loved it.

    So far in Draenor Nagrand is looking to be a pretty elevated zone, otherwise like you say it's shaping up to be another large pancake saucer.

  3. #5223
    Legendary! Callace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Most rational peoples response is, 'meh, I don't care much either way'.
    Most people that still play the game no longer enjoy it, so that's hardly saying much.

    Whenever Blizzard makes a detrimental decision, all I see are people lining up to excuse themselves for all the time they've wasted.

  4. #5224
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    makes you wonder doesn't it, what if blizzard did the same thing in draenor they did in vanilla wow, ran out of time to make the zones of draenor 100% decent, so used flat and undeveloped textures you couldn't see without farsight or bugging.

    they won't what us to see the laziness.



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    Actually this is how Silvermoon really look : a lot of gaps , unfinished terrain , basically everything that cannot be seen from the ground level is not developed.






    I supose now they want to develop an entire expansion like this. For sure they will gain some time if they do this. But is still lazyness.
    Time to vote with the wallet . Is the only thing that can wake them up.




    .
    Last edited by vandam; 2014-04-10 at 12:12 PM.

  5. #5225
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Actually this is how Silvermoon really look : a lot of gaps , unfinished terrain , basically everything that cannot be see from the ground level is not developed.






    I supose now they want to develop an entire expansion like this.
    Time to vote with the wallet . Is the only thing that can wake them up.




    .
    Really getting tired of the stupidity in this forum, THEY ARE ADDING FLIGHT, THEY DESIGNED DRAENOR to be able to fly through....they didn't take short cuts, they did the whole goddamn thing with flight in mind, just because we don't get it as soon as we hit level cap doesn't mean it isn't coming. Even Timeless Isle, and the other islands they added in MoP that disable flight are still designed flight capable!

  6. #5226
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Actually this is how Silvermoon really look : a lot of gaps , unfinished terrain , basically everything that cannot be seen from the ground level is not developed.






    I supose now they want to develop an entire expansion like this. For sure they will gain some time if they do this. But is still lazyness.
    Time to vote with the wallet . Is the only thing that can wake them up.




    .
    Silvermoon is not the same as the regular world, and they still do this in dungeons for obvious reasons.

    Silver moon is in an instance, I think miles under Outland? Nobody could reach those areas on live without exploits or hacks, therefore it was left untouched. Blizzard uses premise assets to buil the world, and could easily place on more spires and add collision. Why don't they? Because it would be pointless and simply put more pressure on the game engine to recognize the collision and have the chunks loaded.

    However, in Draenor and really any outside area, doing this is not plausible for a variety of reasons. The use of itemslike gliders, abilities like levitate, or the new meteor from cinder fall allow players to get to most areas. Plus flight paths go over much of the world, while they do not pass over silvermoon. Leaving holes in the world would allow exploiting, but Silvermoon is not in the world, it's a secluded instance and players can't glide in or out of it.

    Go to the top of Hyjal, and without a flyin mount you should be able to drift into Azhara if you have a player knock you back. Try it on Kun Lai summit an you could probably make it to the Vale or northern Jade Forest. Even without flyin you can get to a lot of areas by other means, so Blizzard will have to design all the needed chunks.

  7. #5227
    Quote Originally Posted by wow2011 View Post
    Flying has always been limited one way or another for very good reasons. Also, other games don't implement flying not because they cannot or too lazy, it is because they have wow as an example before them. Flying isn't just all pro and no con and other game developers just haven't come up with a good way to balance the pro/con yet.

    We need to stop this conspiracy theory of blizzard wants to do less so they are not allowing flying. Blizzard is trying to make the game fun at max level and flying is hindering them from doing so. I don't know what Blizzard has planned will work or not right now without learning more.

    Basically, I would say don't assume WoD end game will be exactly the same as MoP end game. Maybe Blizzard has somehting planned that will make open world fun at end game.
    Other games don't have flying because flying is really expensive to put into a game. Blizzard has always been the preeminent MMORPG game company. Leaving flying out is doing WoD on the cheap which Blizzard has never been before. it's just depressing. Also, of course, if you say "wait and see" you mean that they haven't put flying in WoD. Flying is much to expensive and time consuming to just "wait and see" about. If they put it in, there would be no reason for "wait and see". "Wait and see" means they have not put flying in WoD but they don't want to tell us until they absolutely have to. We'll find out in the beta but I'd bet you anything there's no flying WoD.
    Last edited by Stellan; 2014-04-10 at 01:26 PM.

  8. #5228
    Quote Originally Posted by Stellan View Post
    Other games don't have flying because flying is really expensive to put into a game. Blizzard has always been the preeminent MMORPG game company. Leaving flying out is doing WoD on the cheap which Blizzard has never been before. it's just depressing. Also, of course, if you say "wait and see" you mean that they haven't put flying in WoD. Flying is much to expensive and time consuming to just "wait and see" about. If they put it in, there would be no reason for "wait and see". "Wait and see" means they have not put flying in WoD but they don't want to tell us until they absolutely have to. We'll find out in the beta but I'd bet you anything there's no flying WoD.
    Or what if wait and see means they are waiting for feedback before making a final decision?

    A world designed for ground travel can always support flying. The same cannot be said for a world designer with flight in mind. That's why they are designing for ground, and waiting for feedback to determine if they should or should not enable flight.

  9. #5229
    If we got a new ground mount rank, increasing it another 75-100%, I'd gladly retire my flight mounts.

  10. #5230
    I would not like the fact that we cant fly in the next exp. pack

    To return back to ground mounts is in my opinion not an improvement (maybe in the first months i am fine with that)
    What they need to work on is to make the sky a risky place.

    Maybe give flying mounts a debuff bar that you can fly 2 min then need to land to recover your mount otherwise it will crash land.
    Maybe put mobs in the air that attack players on mounts (the higher in the air the higher the level of these mobs gets)
    Place cannons and guards on flying mounts around settlements and cities.
    Give hooks (engineering) that players can use to make ppl dismount.
    Last edited by Tromage; 2014-04-10 at 03:15 PM.

  11. #5231
    Legendary! Callace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Or what if wait and see means they are waiting for feedback before making a final decision?

    A world designed for ground travel can always support flying. The same cannot be said for a world designer with flight in mind. That's why they are designing for ground, and waiting for feedback to determine if they should or should not enable flight.
    They're waiting for people to buy the expack regardless. Not on actual feedback.

    That being said, what is the point of not adding flight when the expack is over, or the landmass is no longer current?
    I don't think we're going to see flight on the new continent in 6.1 (or 7.0 for that matter)for the same reason we won't see flight on TI or IoT in 6.0. It has nothing to do with improving the game. They just can't be bothered.
    Last edited by Callace; 2014-04-10 at 04:49 PM.

  12. #5232
    Quote Originally Posted by Tromage View Post
    I would not like the fact that we cant fly in the next exp. pack

    To return back to ground mounts is in my opinion not an improvement (maybe in the first months i am fine with that)
    What they need to work on is to make the sky a risky place.

    Maybe give flying mounts a debuff bar that you can fly 2 min then need to land to recover your mount otherwise it will crash land.
    Maybe put mobs in the air that attack players on mounts (the higher in the air the higher the level of these mobs gets)
    Place cannons and guards on flying mounts around settlements and cities.
    Give hooks (engineering) that players can use to make ppl dismount.
    All of these options are terrible, most would rather have flight removed than have flight in but be impossible...we saw this in valley of the four winds when the plains hawks could attack us while flying, all they did was daze to dismount you and you fell to your death...bad gameplay

  13. #5233
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    In preparation I am leveling my rogue with no flying. I didn't fly through Outland and I'm not flying in Northrend either (level 70 so far). Honestly it's really nice to go back to ground mounts again and experience the beauty of every zone...and the strategic choice of how I want to get to my next objective. Not that killing things is hard (usually) but that I want to find the best path to avoid or engage what I want to. Flying removes all of that and my opinion has changed: REMOVE FLYING.



  14. #5234
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Can you guys just get over it, please? Most rational peoples response is, 'meh, I don't care much either way'. Cause it's really not a big deal.
    And yet you still haunt this thread just as much as them.
    Looks like I will be flying in Draenor after all

  15. #5235
    Legendary! Callace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    In preparation I am leveling my rogue with no flying. I didn't fly through Outland and I'm not flying in Northrend either (level 70 so far). Honestly it's really nice to go back to ground mounts again and experience the beauty of every zone...and the strategic choice of how I want to get to my next objective. Not that killing things is hard (usually) but that I want to find the best path to avoid or engage what I want to. Flying removes all of that and my opinion has changed: REMOVE FLYING.
    Yeah, but aren't you a bit of a masochist? I don't want to slowly, slowly squeeze every last second of replay value. I don't have the endurance for that! (I'm glad that you do.)

    p.s. I didn't mean masochist as a put-down, just that some people are tougher/have different thresholds than others
    Last edited by Callace; 2014-04-10 at 05:04 PM.

  16. #5236
    Quote Originally Posted by Callace View Post
    They're waiting for people to buy the expack regardless. Not on actual feedback.

    That being said, what is the point of not adding flight when the expack is over, or the landmass is no longer current?
    I don't think we're going to see flight on the new continent in 6.1 (or 7.0 for that matter)for the same reason we won't see flight on TI or IoT in 6.0. It has nothing to do with improving the game. They just can't be bothered.
    They have not even touched on flight in 7.0, norm took of it has been made. 7.0 is when Draenor is no longer current, not 6.1, not 6.2, but when the new expansion is out, then the previous one is no longer current. Pandaria is still plenty current, there is still Cloud Serpnt riding, needed for mounts added this patch, still ores used for current gear and mats used for current gear, IoT still offers some upgrades for new characters and a source of charms. All the dungeons are still relevant for challenge modes if used, just because its 5.4 doesn't mean the rest of MoP is untouched, just less used. In 5.2, when we got IoT, greater Pandaria was still used. Why you would think that 6.1 would make the entire of Draenor irreleven is incomprehensible. We don't know they plans post expansion if flight will be allowed or not, but adding it in 7.0 is not comparable to 6.X, 6.X the continent is still utilized somewhat, and players will be spending a lot of time there.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tromage View Post
    I would not like the fact that we cant fly in the next exp. pack

    To return back to ground mounts is in my opinion not an improvement (maybe in the first months i am fine with that)
    What they need to work on is to make the sky a risky place.

    Maybe give flying mounts a debuff bar that you can fly 2 min then need to land to recover your mount otherwise it will crash land.
    Maybe put mobs in the air that attack players on mounts (the higher in the air the higher the level of these mobs gets)
    Place cannons and guards on flying mounts around settlements and cities.
    Give hooks (engineering) that players can use to make ppl dismount.
    So full the sky to a point of ridiculousness with mobs? Or just have them spawn on you and bother you? Canons only pose a small hinderence, if they were any more common then players would be aggregated by being dismounted without their control.

    Remember early MoP when hawks would bother everybody at half hill? Or in Outland when chimeras chase you relentlessly in the air? We can't fight in the air

  17. #5237
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    And yet you still haunt this thread just as much as them.
    i know you're not talking to / about me,but it does apply to me, so i would like to respond rationally and logically. The basic premise of this thread is flawed in saying that flying isn't going to be in the next expansion, which is blatantly false, blizzard has stated countless times (to anyone willing to pay attention) that we will have flight in the next expansion, just not at launch. They've gone on to say "IF we planned to remove flight in an expansion we would tell you about it beforehand, to stop people from over-reacting before hearing our side of the discussion first." which means...they may eventually decide to not have flight (in another expansion), but for now it's staying.

    The problem is people see this forum, and don't read the entire thing, and just join the no-flight-GRRR-bandwagon without knowing all the facts, without listening to the game developers intents, or without the common sense implication that blizzard would think long and hard about removing a majority of player's favorite convenience in the game as a "surprise" or lie....they'd lose so much business it wouldn't be worth it. this is something they would admit to and announce for an expansion they day they announced the expansion to judge reaction first at blizzcon, and on the forums as a whole.

  18. #5238
    Legendary! Callace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    They have not even touched on flight in 7.0, norm took of it has been made. 7.0 is when Draenor is no longer current, not 6.1, not 6.2, but when the new expansion is out, then the previous one is no longer current. Pandaria is still plenty current, there is still Cloud Serpnt riding, needed for mounts added this patch, still ores used for current gear and mats used for current gear, IoT still offers some upgrades for new characters and a source of charms. All the dungeons are still relevant for challenge modes if used, just because its 5.4 doesn't mean the rest of MoP is untouched, just less used. In 5.2, when we got IoT, greater Pandaria was still used. Why you would think that 6.1 would make the entire of Draenor irreleven is incomprehensible. We don't know they plans post expansion if flight will be allowed or not, but adding it in 7.0 is not comparable to 6.X, 6.X the continent is still utilized somewhat, and players will be spending a lot of time there.
    I'm telling you that if they don't add it in 6.1, they will never add it again to any new content. They aren't going to roll the dice once a decision is made.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I will also say, most of the alpha shots look like fully-realized renderings/no props or SMC facades. So that gives me some hope that they were being honest about the possibility of re-adding it later. That it wasn't just a put-on.
    Last edited by Callace; 2014-04-10 at 05:10 PM. Reason: typo, clarification

  19. #5239
    Quote Originally Posted by Callace View Post
    I'm telling you that if they don't add it in 6.1, they will never add it again to any new content. They aren't going to roll the dice once a decision is made.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I will also say, most of the alpha shots look like fully-realized renderings/no props or SMC facades. So that gives me some hope that they were being honest about the possibility of re-adding it later. That it wasn't just a put-on.
    i think with their updated tech, and i mean physical tools that they use, it seems easier to make the full world flyable than try to do the original "Prop" system, and fans expect the full world, not just hte look of full world...so even if they remove flight the world will still be fully developed

  20. #5240
    Legendary! Callace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinryu View Post
    i think with their updated tech, and i mean physical tools that they use, it seems easier to make the full world flyable than try to do the original "Prop" system, and fans expect the full world, not just hte look of full world...so even if they remove flight the world will still be fully developed
    That is good news. Maybe they'll adopt some moderation after all.

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