1. #7061
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    You have a talented combat drop, and the option to race change to Night Elf. As a Paladin, I have to... hope my Saurok banner actually works...?
    What combat drop do you mean? Dominate Mind?

  2. #7062
    High Overlord Incarnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cradix View Post
    And you'd be wrong. I played vanilla, and I sure as fuck do not want to go back to that style of gameplay.



    Vanilla wasn't "way more dangerous". Hell, compared to every other MMO on the market at the time, Vanilla was a safest one out there. You know what you lost if you died? 10% durability.

    Know what you lost if you played, say, Phantasy Star Online? Everything you had equipped on you dropped if you died. And if one person was a random player? Well, hope they have some decency, or you're gonna lose everything you had equipped because they could just scoop your loot and scoot on out.

    Everquest made you lose whole swaths of experience when you died. Lineage....hell if I fucking know, I barely played any of that game.

    So no, Vanilla was not some magical time of "Superty dooperty ultra-dangerous stuff guize!" It was only "dangerous" if you hadn't played any other MMO on the market at the time.



    I barely if ever saw anyone out in the world back then. You know where I saw most of the people? In Ironforge, since that was where the Auction House was for Alliance. Only time I saw large amounts of players not in my guild at the time was when it was raid time and other guilds were going to raid. When randomly running about? Maybe 5 people max.
    This ^

    People claiming Vanilla being dangerous? Yeah right. I know people can experience things differently, but I cannot help to wonder if the people who say Vanilla was dangerous actually played during Vanilla? I don't believe so seeing how it is drastically different from my own experiences, and I have played since the launch of this game.
    Apart from getting ganked while moving towards the raid instance if you were late or a bit slow at moving out the world actually was safe. As safe as today, with flying and every luxury we got. Getting from point A to point B in Vanilla was however painfully slow and tedious after a while at max level. Well, it was extremely slow (if not horribly slow) during leveling. Only time there were outdoor action was when we had the important world bosses (raiding guilds competing to tag them and keep the tag until kill) and before Blizzard introduced Battlegrounds. Previous to Battlegrounds fights could spark a bit here and there if someone with bored guildmates got corpse camped by a larger number of gankers going around killing lowbies. This even happens today, not just as often as it did during early Vanilla. What we don't have today are those massive outdoor pvp battles that SOMETIMES developed from bored guildmates seeking revenge against corpse campers, who in their turn called over all of their bored guildmates. During Vanilla a whole lot of people were just hanging around in Orgrimmar or IF at the AH's.

    Going everywhere by ground mounts or flight paths are in my opinion a limitation of the users freedom and desire on how they want to experience the game. Flight paths in general are rather boring if you ask for my personal take upon that way of traveling inside a game. I love having the option to fly, but just because I do have this option does not mean I CHOSE to always fly. Which I don't, I spend a lot of time moving by ground mounts too. Simply because I WANT TO and find pleasure in experience the game from that angle and position. For the exact same reason do I chose to fly, when I WANT TO. Flying through the forest, just below the canopy is quite beautiful... Some areas are not really designed with that in mind though. But that's okay.

    No one is forcing anyone to fly, not really anyway. If you feel forced to fly simply by the fact you can fly? Well then you are either really comfortable and lazy (always choosing the faster option) or are just incapable of making your own decisions regarding how you like to travel/experience the game and chose what you think everyone else is choosing - skipping content and taking the fastest option. Ultimately It is YOUR decision, no one is forcing you as it is today (apart for pandaria content until max lvl, and the islands).

    With flying being disabled, you no longer chose yourself. Blizzard chooses for you, indirectly forces you.
    Last edited by Incarnia; 2014-04-26 at 12:12 AM.
    Retired raid member of <Immersion> Frostmane EU.

  3. #7063
    Quote Originally Posted by Renisis86 View Post
    I'm going to venture and say the people who are all need flying, never played with out it. Vanilla seemed way more dangerous. And you actually saw people in the world. OH and there were gathering professions back then too.
    Lol I did play back then, that is how I know I hate it. Well, along with every no fly zone since then.

  4. #7064
    Blizzard chooses for you, indirectly forces you.
    Which is exactly what they should be doing, because they make and design the game, and want us to play it with the vision they intend it be played and experienced.

    This is a good thing.

  5. #7065
    I have no real problem not been able to fly while leveling but blocking the flying ability the whole expansion after capping is not my kind of fun. It will be best for them and the players not to implement that.

  6. #7066
    Quote Originally Posted by Cradix View Post
    And you'd be wrong. I played vanilla, and I sure as fuck do not want to go back to that style of gameplay.



    Vanilla wasn't "way more dangerous". Hell, compared to every other MMO on the market at the time, Vanilla was a safest one out there. You know what you lost if you died? 10% durability.

    Know what you lost if you played, say, Phantasy Star Online? Everything you had equipped on you dropped if you died. And if one person was a random player? Well, hope they have some decency, or you're gonna lose everything you had equipped because they could just scoop your loot and scoot on out.

    Everquest made you lose whole swaths of experience when you died. Lineage....hell if I fucking know, I barely played any of that game.

    So no, Vanilla was not some magical time of "Superty dooperty ultra-dangerous stuff guize!" It was only "dangerous" if you hadn't played any other MMO on the market at the time.



    I barely if ever saw anyone out in the world back then. You know where I saw most of the people? In Ironforge, since that was where the Auction House was for Alliance. Only time I saw large amounts of players not in my guild at the time was when it was raid time and other guilds were going to raid. When randomly running about? Maybe 5 people max.

    Dead on ^

    Hell, with that blue post all it does is push me farther away from WOW. I can skip this expansion till flying is back. Thats money ill spend elsewhere.

    If flying never returns then I'll simply get a new hobby to spend my time and cash on.

    In WOW I will not go back to the days of vanilla.

  7. #7067
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    Which is exactly what they should be doing, because they make and design the game, and want us to play it with the vision they intend it be played and experienced.

    This is a good thing.
    Removing 8 year old features is NOT good game design. FIXING them is.
    Looks like I will be flying in Draenor after all

  8. #7068
    Scarab Lord Wrathonia's Avatar
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    You know what? Fuck it. I'm done. Even Archage has gliders. Not only that they have boats too. Blizzard just isn't trying, plain and simple.
    -=Skyforge=- A new action based MMORPG from the Allods team and Obsidian Entertainment. MMO-C Skyforge thread.
    It's ok to not like things. Posting and you!

  9. #7069
    Removing 8 year old features is NOT good game design. FIXING them is.
    Well, you're technically right - the best way to fix flying and its ability to trivialise gaming combat and the way Blizzard want the game to be played and experienced - is to remove it. Oh hey, there's a new blue post that went up even saying as such.

  10. #7070
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathonia View Post
    You know what? Fuck it. I'm done. Even Archage has gliders. Not only that they have boats too. Blizzard just isn't trying, plain and simple.
    agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArchon View Post
    I can almost taste your arrogance and desperation.

    We know and Blizzard knows if we even have the slightest option to use a flying mount will use it whenever possible...Moment we get the slightest of frustration there we go jumping on the flying mount to bypass. Flying is shit...Accept it.
    Then that should be up to the player to decide how he wants to tackle open world content. Not blizzard at this point.

    They create the constant and you go through it ever how you want. Especially in the open world.

    You want to storm the keep. have at it.
    You want to stealth in and kill just the boss. All you gamer.
    You want to fly in and pick and choose your targets. all you.
    You want to RP it. Have at it.
    You want to get through it as quickly as possible. Thats the gamers decision.
    You want to view every encounter till max level as a speed bump of worthless content and do nothing but raid. Enjoy.


    blizzard taking away flying cause they can't be bothered to balance flying or design content with flying in mind shows a massive lack of ingenuity and creativity.
    Last edited by quras; 2014-04-26 at 12:22 AM.

  11. #7071
    Removing flying at this point creates more work for Blizzard, not less. That is one of the big (and amusing) urban myths people like to throw around.

  12. #7072
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    Which is exactly what they should be doing, because they make and design the game, and want us to play it with the vision they intend it be played and experienced.

    This is a good thing.
    Choice is incredibly beneficial to an RPG, regardless of if you put MMO or SP in front of. It's what Bioware got their asses baked over in regards to Mass Effect 3, the lack of choice. It was their story told the way they wanted to tell it. Well, that's great and all, but I can get the exact same experience for a one-time purchase of 6.99 of any copy of any book, ever. What justifies the 49.99 price tag and 14.99 monthly subscription? Well, I guess we're paying for some fancy graphics, but given the choice, I might prefer to pay Patrick Stewart to come read me my copy of The Hobbit.

    A game with choice, options and variety is going to sell much, much better than a linear, railroaded one-time event. What's the incentive to re-roll? You've already seen the game exactly how the devs want you to see it. There is no alternative way to play, there is nothing different you can do next time. Your second to your X^nth playthrough will be exactly the same as your first. What incentive is there for me to keep playing? I've seen it. I'm done.

    That is a very, very bad strategy for a game that wants you to keep playing for months, even years on end, and on top of that, to keep PAYING for it. You do not want to design a game that is a one-trick pony.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  13. #7073
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    Removing flying at this point creates more work for Blizzard, not less.
    How? Can you please explain?
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyray View Post
    what? you can knock people off ground mounts with auto attack.

  14. #7074
    s
    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    Removing flying at this point creates more work for Blizzard, not less. That is one of the big (and amusing) urban myths people like to throw around.
    Incorrect. Blizzard own words says flying makes them create to much. So removing it allows them to create less.

  15. #7075
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    agreed.



    Then that should be up to the player to decide how he wants to tackle open world content. Not blizzard at this point.

    They create the constant and you go through it ever how you want. Especially in the open world.

    You want to storm the keep. have at it.
    You want to stealth in and kill just the boss. All you gamer.
    You want to fly in and pick and choose your targets. all you.
    You want to RP it. Have at it.
    You want to get through it as quickly as possible. Thats the gamers decision.
    You want to view every encounter till max level as a speed bump of worthless content and do nothing but raid. Enjoy.


    blizzard taking away flying cause they can't be bothered to balance flying or design content with flying in mind shows a massive lack of ingenuity and creativity.
    All that works great in the perfect world...We don't live in a perfect world. What sounds good on paper doesn't translate well in the game. People will take the path of least resistance. It's up to Blizzard to establish how they want their game to be experienced and played, and that's exactly what there doing.

    The lack of effort and ingenuity is bull shit. Continuing to design around a aspect that hurts the game as a whole and having split focus between ground and flying play is foolish. It's not the way game is supposed to be played and experienced, sooner you get that threw your head the better. If you don't like it, find a new game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Removing 8 year old features is NOT good game design. FIXING them is.
    They are FIXING it. Removing a mistake they made 8 years ago.
    Last edited by DarkArchon; 2014-04-26 at 12:37 AM.

  16. #7076
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArchon View Post
    All that works great in the perfect world...We don't live in a perfect world. What sounds good on paper doesn't translate well in the game. People will take the path of least resistance. It's up to Blizzard to establish how they want their game to be experienced and played, and that's exactly what there doing.
    Well, I suppose if they want their game to be experienced in a way that makes a lot of their subscribes unhappy, they'll pay the price.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  17. #7077
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArchon View Post
    They are FIXING it. Removing a mistake they made 8 years ago.
    A "mistake" that many love... Makes a lot of sense. If it wasn't loved they would have removed it long ago. It was one of the most requested features in TBC and wrath to enable flying in classic areas.
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyray View Post
    what? you can knock people off ground mounts with auto attack.

  18. #7078
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArchon View Post
    All that works great in the perfect world...We don't live in a perfect world. What sounds good on paper doesn't translate well in the game. People will take the path of least resistance. It's up to Blizzard to establish how they want their game to be experienced and played, and that's exactly what there doing.
    My rogue, druid, hunter and mage says I don't give a rats ass what blizzard puts in my way.

    I'll skip it.

    Flying just allowed everyone to play how they want. Removing flying past max level is something that no one should support. Removing features instead of expanding on them is some pretty flawed design.


    They are FIXING it. Removing a mistake they made 8 years ago.
    My wallet says otherwise as well as all the other flying mounts I have bought and collected over the years.

    Not using them in current content at max level that I paid more cash for than any previous expansions is unacceptable.

    That mistake you think it is. That mistake was part of the formula that brought WOW to 12 million subs.

    Poor story and poor designed content lost them 6 million subs.

    Flying is not the problem.

  19. #7079
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArchon View Post
    They are FIXING it. Removing a mistake they made 8 years ago.
    Therapy about who you are would be "fixing it". Taking your own life is "removal" There is a difference. Removing flight is not a fix. It is a removal. Fixing it would imply balancing it and making it more on par with ground mounts.
    Looks like I will be flying in Draenor after all

  20. #7080
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Well, I suppose if they want their game to be experienced in a way that makes a lot of their subscribes unhappy, they'll pay the price.
    Will make some people unhappy = Will make some people happy. They won't pay any price. This is my opinion here but i believe more people will be happy then unhappy. A majority from what i've seen so far either like it or they just don't care.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Therapy about who you are would be "fixing it". Taking your own life is "removal" There is a difference. Removing flight is not a fix. It is a removal. Fixing it would imply balancing it and making it more on par with ground mounts.
    This seems to be a thing that's alluding you. You can't balance flying and ground mounts within the game...Having the same aspects, risks, whatever, you name it. To do so would be a massive undertaking and a lot of develop... In the end wouldn't be worth it. It's either a ground game or it isn't. I know in your world you like to believe ground and flying can live in perfect harmony, be balanced...It can't be. Way to much shit would have to be developed, would be a mess. I know it's easy sitting there in your chair thinking it's a simple fix, easy as pie. It ain't and it's not practical.

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