1. #8001
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thes View Post
    I doubt it makes much difference if you can or cannot fly straight to quest objectives. Most of the content we often talk about is instanced anyway.
    Well true, but how do we get to instanced content?

    Quests, or leveling through dungeons.

    Obviously flying doesn't affect leveling through dungeons, but it does affect the rate at which we quest.

    Now, if you take an early-Cata approach, where you had to actually reach the dungeon entrance before you could queue for it, and you tie unlocking dungeons into the quest progression, then by slowing our questing, they've slowed our leveling. They've slowed all pre-max-level content consumption. If it is taking longer for fewer people to reach max level, this will have a ripple effect of leaving fewer people capable of dungeon or raiding at max-level. Second to this: Blizzard has stated they want to increase "max level questing".

    If we follow the model: all content is gated on the basis of quest completion, then by slowing our quest completion, they've now slowed all forms of content consumption, even at max level.

    Which basically means, as was pointed out: less work and more profit for blizzard, while players are saddled with more work and less content.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

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  2. #8002
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Half of mmo-c =/= half the WoW community.
    Oh come on.

    You can't possibly believe that to be true, right?
    Last edited by mmocd12d3b42be; 2014-05-30 at 07:36 PM.

  3. #8003
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I guess its really just a difference of personalities. I would never think straight to flying. I would think of funny stories with friends, the great story and quests, progressing in Naxx and ICC, being one of the first guilds on my server to complete a hardmode. Getting crapped on in WG (Faction imbalance ftw) achievements, selling shitloads of titansteel. I wonder if I went into general/trade and asked "What are your fondest memories or Wrath" .. I just wonder how many times "soaring through the cold mountains" would come up ...

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    Weren't you just complaining about the lack of quests like Bashiok or whoever mentioned? Level is trivial, it was an example of how that could happen.. 0.0 Source on 1% or fewer quests?
    I don't need to give you a source for common sense. Go pull up any random high level levelling zone and come back and tell me how many quest hubs can be completed by a series of dive bombing single targets. The answer, if not zero, will be damned close. Just because you can drop down on some quest objectives doesn't mean that flying trivializes questing in any meaningful way. You cannot meaningfully progress via questing without spending a great deal of time on the ground and the mere existence of a few single objective quests doesn't make this untrue.

  4. #8004
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Well true, but how do we get to instanced content?

    Quests, or leveling through dungeons.

    Obviously flying doesn't affect leveling through dungeons, but it does affect the rate at which we quest.

    Now, if you take an early-Cata approach, where you had to actually reach the dungeon entrance before you could queue for it, and you tie unlocking dungeons into the quest progression, then by slowing our questing, they've slowed our leveling. They've slowed all pre-max-level content consumption. If it is taking longer for fewer people to reach max level, this will have a ripple effect of leaving fewer people capable of dungeon or raiding at max-level. Second to this: Blizzard has stated they want to increase "max level questing".

    If we follow the model: all content is gated on the basis of quest completion, then by slowing our quest completion, they've now slowed all forms of content consumption, even at max level.

    Which basically means, as was pointed out: less work and more profit for blizzard, while players are saddled with more work and less content.
    Or if we follow the MOP model of doing dungeons and scenarios it unlocks in the queue system for that dungeon the moment you hit the level of the dungeon and when you hit whatever ilvl is required you are set to go. It was made even easier by the fact that you could buy an entire full set of green gear including trinkets at above the instance you were queuing for's ilvl about an hour into MOP. Until they tell me otherwise, I am going to assume they are using that model for leveling dungeons and scenarios over the Cata model.

    For end game, they have already stated that the harder heroics will require you to hit silver on proving grounds, at this time we don't know what the ilvl requirement is to enter proving grounds, nor do we know what ilvl the gear scales back to in proving grounds, nor do we know if they are having normal dungeons for end game for the people who don't want to do proving grounds and go into lfr. So, it is pretty hard to say how much questing will effect it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooky View Post
    yeah wow cool..how about raising the valor cap consider WoD isn't that far away? 1000 valor points gets u a lollipop and kick in the nutsack these days! Back in my day we could get a bucket of candy and a pet ferret with that sort of points!
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
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  5. #8005
    High Overlord hotmess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerGamer84 View Post
    Unsubscribing over not being able to fly? If all you do is fly around why are you even playing?
    Same reason they need tier gear and trinkets in LFR. "Make everything easy for me"

  6. #8006
    Quote Originally Posted by hotmess View Post
    Same reason they need tier gear and trinkets in LFR. "Make everything easy for me"
    Thanks for being super condescending. Believe it or not, there are people who do more than queue for LFR that like to fly. My husband and I run a raiding guild. We killed normal Garrosh back in December, so while we're not hardcore, we're certainly not casual LFR heroes who want everything handed to them on a silver platter. We're at least a little bit above average. We want to fly. Flying gives a new perspective on things. It allows one to explore in ways that are not possible on the ground. I can certainly accept not flying while leveling (though I think Storm Peaks and Icecrown show that flying while leveling can be done well if the devs aren't just being lazy), but once I've done that content, I've done it. Why should I have to take forever to go where I want (and if I'm on a flight path, not be able to change my mind midway) once I've done all that? What possible gain is there? And if we're going to talk about Timeless Isle stuff, TI is stupid. WoW is not a platformer and I do not want to have to do jumping puzzles in a game whose jumping and movement controls are as mushy as WoW's are.

    If flying "makes things easy," that's on the devs. There's all kinds of things they can do to make things hard, but they choose not to. Flying just makes things less tedious, gives a new perspective on things, allows exploration from another angle and a chance to appreciate the art from a closer angle, and I find it fun. The first thing I do whenever I level a character up is buy their flying. Not equip the masses of gear I've made them, not pick my 90 talent, not pick up quests or dailies or do my farm-I buy my flying. It's been an integrated part of the game for over seven years now. Removing it for the foreseeable future in new content or forever is stupid and the reasons that have been touted by Blizzard are straw men that show their laziness. As for world pvp, if it's that big a deal for it (though I have my doubts there-I remember chasing people down on flying mounts in Wrath and gleefully laughing as I knocked them off and used my parachute to live while they splatted, and that was obviously before the turtle shell), fine, disable it for pvp servers, but don't punish the rest of us because gankers want to gank.

  7. #8007
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Well true, but how do we get to instanced content?

    Quests, or leveling through dungeons.

    Obviously flying doesn't affect leveling through dungeons, but it does affect the rate at which we quest.

    Now, if you take an early-Cata approach, where you had to actually reach the dungeon entrance before you could queue for it, and you tie unlocking dungeons into the quest progression, then by slowing our questing, they've slowed our leveling. They've slowed all pre-max-level content consumption. If it is taking longer for fewer people to reach max level, this will have a ripple effect of leaving fewer people capable of dungeon or raiding at max-level. Second to this: Blizzard has stated they want to increase "max level questing".

    If we follow the model: all content is gated on the basis of quest completion, then by slowing our quest completion, they've now slowed all forms of content consumption, even at max level.

    Which basically means, as was pointed out: less work and more profit for blizzard, while players are saddled with more work and less content.
    But this line of thinking goes awry when you call Blizzard lazy. they could still be putting in great effort, but intentionally slowing things down for other reasons. Its not likie they can pick one choice or the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyphnos View Post
    I don't need to give you a source for common sense. Go pull up any random high level levelling zone and come back and tell me how many quest hubs can be completed by a series of dive bombing single targets. The answer, if not zero, will be damned close. Just because you can drop down on some quest objectives doesn't mean that flying trivializes questing in any meaningful way. You cannot meaningfully progress via questing without spending a great deal of time on the ground and the mere existence of a few single objective quests doesn't make this untrue.
    You made the claim, so you can do that work.

  8. #8008
    Quote Originally Posted by hotmess View Post
    Same reason they need tier gear and trinkets in LFR. "Make everything easy for me"
    Well you don't need flying to queue for LFR, you need it for... archeology, pet battles, rare farming, mats gathering, transit to and from raids and daily hubs, getting back to defend your garrison, etc. Incidentally, having tier bonuses is also beneficial for things besides mythic raiding, in case you didn't notice while you were farming Celestials for it and doing Brawler's Guild. You know it's not like Flex is the pinnacle of difficulty either, sweetheart. But I guess since you don't need to fly to it (YET) it's OK, right?
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  9. #8009
    Quote Originally Posted by Nayaga View Post
    Your official Blizzard Fanboy sunglasses are causing you to have a reading comprehension problem.
    When you accuse everyone disagreeing with your clearly contradictory posts that they have reading comprehension problems, I don't think the problem lies entirely with them. No one is telling you how to play your game. We are defending a choice Blizzard made with reasonable facts while you're growing increasingly upset that they have the ability to forcibly direct their game in a direction they feel is better for the whole, at your expense if necessary.

  10. #8010
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    Well you don't need flying to queue for LFR, you need it for... archeology, pet battles, rare farming, mats gathering, transit to and from raids and daily hubs, getting back to defend your garrison, etc. Incidentally, having tier bonuses is also beneficial for things besides mythic raiding, in case you didn't notice while you were farming Celestials for it and doing Brawler's Guild. You know it's not like Flex is the pinnacle of difficulty either, sweetheart. But I guess since you don't need to fly to it (YET) it's OK, right?
    Well, technically you don't NEED flying for any of the stuff you listed. No arguing on it making it easier though
    Khadgar: Prepare to heroically CTRL-E through the portal with me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooky View Post
    yeah wow cool..how about raising the valor cap consider WoD isn't that far away? 1000 valor points gets u a lollipop and kick in the nutsack these days! Back in my day we could get a bucket of candy and a pet ferret with that sort of points!
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    QUICKLY FRIENDS, TO THE HYPERBOLEMOBILE!

  11. #8011
    Deleted
    The world Blizzard created in World of Warcraft is not built around having a fly mount. There have been many expansions since they introduced flying mounts, and still, the maps they have created are still not fit for flying mounts.

    The world they created is built for ground mounts, and finally Blizzard is able to see that, that they aren't able to create world where fly mounts have a place. So they will focus on ground mounts instead.

  12. #8012
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomchicken View Post
    Or if we follow the MOP model of doing dungeons and scenarios it unlocks in the queue system for that dungeon the moment you hit the level of the dungeon and when you hit whatever ilvl is required you are set to go. It was made even easier by the fact that you could buy an entire full set of green gear including trinkets at above the instance you were queuing for's ilvl about an hour into MOP. Until they tell me otherwise, I am going to assume they are using that model for leveling dungeons and scenarios over the Cata model.

    For end game, they have already stated that the harder heroics will require you to hit silver on proving grounds, at this time we don't know what the ilvl requirement is to enter proving grounds, nor do we know what ilvl the gear scales back to in proving grounds, nor do we know if they are having normal dungeons for end game for the people who don't want to do proving grounds and go into lfr. So, it is pretty hard to say how much questing will effect it.
    Sure, but my point was really if the goal is to slow down content consumption, then allowing people to skip the now slower leveling process and simply stay in town and do dungeons all day, is not going to achieve that effect. Which makes the removal of flying to "slow down content" or "bring back danger" meaningless because it has no affect on those players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eiserne Drossel View Post
    The world Blizzard created in World of Warcraft is not built around having a fly mount. There have been many expansions since they introduced flying mounts, and still, the maps they have created are still not fit for flying mounts.

    The world they created is built for ground mounts, and finally Blizzard is able to see that, that they aren't able to create world where fly mounts have a place. So they will focus on ground mounts instead.
    I'm so glad we had you here to tell blizzard that their 8 years of design was wrong.

    But please tell me, how did you ride your ground mount out to Tempest Keep? Netherwing Ledge? Bastion of Twilight? Deepholm? Blackwing Descent?
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

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  13. #8013
    Brewmaster Nayaga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    When you accuse everyone disagreeing with your clearly contradictory posts that they have reading comprehension problems, I don't think the problem lies entirely with them. No one is telling you how to play your game. We are defending a choice Blizzard made with reasonable facts while you're growing increasingly upset that they have the ability to forcibly direct their game in a direction they feel is better for the whole, at your expense if necessary.
    he changed the wording of what I said then said I was wrong based on that. Lol!!

    Please show me my contradiction on what I said instead on a fanboy miss reads.

  14. #8014
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    You made the claim, so you can do that work.
    Uh, you made the claim that there were a large number of easily trivialized quests.

  15. #8015
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Sure, but my point was really if the goal is to slow down content consumption, then allowing people to skip the now slower leveling process and simply stay in town and do dungeons all day, is not going to achieve that effect. Which makes the removal of flying to "slow down content" or "bring back danger" meaningless because it has no affect on those players.
    Now that's a good question. Can't answer that one. I suppose the only way to even begin answering it is by asking how many players don't go into the open world for any reason once they hit max level.
    Khadgar: Prepare to heroically CTRL-E through the portal with me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooky View Post
    yeah wow cool..how about raising the valor cap consider WoD isn't that far away? 1000 valor points gets u a lollipop and kick in the nutsack these days! Back in my day we could get a bucket of candy and a pet ferret with that sort of points!
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    QUICKLY FRIENDS, TO THE HYPERBOLEMOBILE!

  16. #8016
    Quote Originally Posted by Rankin View Post
    Uh, you made the claim that there were a large number of easily trivialized quests.
    No, that was Blizzard. You made the claim otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nayaga View Post
    he changed the wording of what I said then said I was wrong based on that. Lol!!

    Please show me my contradiction on what I said instead on a fanboy miss reads.
    Lying about what happened won't make you right. No one can change your posts.

  17. #8017
    Brewmaster Nayaga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    No, that was Blizzard. You made the claim otherwise.

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    Lying about what happened won't make you right. No one can change your posts.
    Why is it a lie? Back-up you accusations with examples.

  18. #8018
    Quote Originally Posted by Nayaga View Post
    Why is it a lie? Back-up you accusations with examples.
    Well, no. Show me where anyone changed your posts? If you can't you're lying.

  19. #8019
    Brewmaster Nayaga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Well, no. Show me where anyone changed your posts? If you can't you're lying.
    You provided a conclusion for what I stated based on your interpretation of what I said. The interpretation was wrong an so was the conclusion. When I get off my iPhone I will cut and paste it for you. Your conclusion of what I said changed what I wrote.

  20. #8020
    Quote Originally Posted by Nayaga View Post
    You provided a conclusion for what I stated based on your interpretation of what I said. The interpretation was wrong an so was the conclusion. When I get off my iPhone I will cut and paste it for you. Your conclusion of what I said changed what I wrote.
    No, I can't change what you wrote. If I am interpreting it wrong, it might be user error on either of our ends. That doesn't mean "someone change your post or what you wrote."

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