Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[gestapo]

I doubt you'll notice, you'll be too busy refreshing the screen replying to this thread.

And you'll be right there with him. Perhaps you should be best friends

[Zigzagzoom]

At cap is fine by me and from what I have seen that is what the majority of ppl want in the end. Or even after the first patch which I'm fine with as well. That way everyone spends all their time on the ground lvl ing experiencing the new content which blizzard has spent so much time creating. Once the content has been explored on the ground and lvl cap is achieved I see no reason to continue in that manner.

[Raiju]

Which doesn't matter anyway because we've had flying in pre-cap in half the expansions with flying.

In Wrath we got flying at 77 and you could buy tomes to sent to your alts. In Cata we had flying from the get-go because it took place in the old world where we already had flying. Only in BC and MoP did we get flying at level cap. So it doesn't make a damn difference whether we're asking for it cap or pre-cap.

Except it clearly affected the content. The reason we got flying in cata is because they sold it as an expansion feature (revamping the old world). We've had lead systems designer state he felt flying was a mistake that they just can't take back now, and given what warlords is doing it's evident others feel the same.

Once again, giving someone a game and also giving them the tools to trivialize it is bad design in general. The whole point about games is setting the potential and limits of what the player can do to create engaging gameplay - and before you try the age old argument of "running through mobs isnt engaging" (neither is flying, hint hint) - it takes a lot more thought processing then autoflying over to actually choose your path through and actively avoid patrols to avoid combat in the case of non-tanks. This is also relevant to immersion, as well.

You're also spinning language to suit you, how is bc and mop "only" but wrath and cata listed off? It's 2 vs 2 in expansion count, and MoP is the most recent with non-flying zones, no flying till level cap, and dev's supporting the idea they are trying to turn away from flying slowly because the game isn't built for engaging aerial play.

[Lumineus]

Maybe because it's 3v1. Druids got flight form at level 68. Flight was never restricted in Outland, the only reason you didn't get it right away is because you just got a mount skill at level 60. Well, in theory anyway. Lots of people never trained it because they couldn't actually afford the 1000g lv60 mounts.

[Florena]

Maybe because it's 3v1. Druids got flight form at level 68. Flight was never restricted in Outland, the only reason you didn't get it right away is because you just got a mount skill at level 60. Well, in theory anyway. Lots of people never trained it because they couldn't actually afford the 1000g lv60 mounts.

I wouldn't count druids, for the vast majority of players you couldn't fly until 70.

[Sunseeker]

Except it clearly affected the content. The reason we got flying in cata is because they sold it as an expansion feature (revamping the old world). We've had lead systems designer state he felt flying was a mistake that they just can't take back now, and given what warlords is doing it's evident others feel the same.

I don't give a fuck. If they thought it was a mistake they shouldn't have included it. Clearly they didn't think it was a mistake BC. They didn't think it was a mistake in Wrath. But oh, somehow Cata changed their minds, yet here we are in MoP with flying, and a world designed to include flying no less! So for being such a big fucking mistake, they certainly didn't act on those feelings. In fact, they actively worked to design the world to include flying.

Frankly this strikes me a a load of shit. Where were the feelings that this was a mistake for the last 8 years? What, was Ghostcrawler twisting their arm and now that he's gone they're free to fix it? Spineless bunch if you ask me. And look: Wildstar, designed almost entirely by ex-Blizzard devs, has flying!

Once again, giving someone a game and also giving them the tools to trivialize it is bad design in general. The whole point about games is setting the potential and limits of what the player can do to create engaging gameplay - and before you try the age old argument of "running through mobs isnt engaging" (neither is flying, hint hint) - it takes a lot more thought processing then autoflying over to actually choose your path through and actively avoid patrols to avoid combat in the case of non-tanks. This is also relevant to immersion, as well.

Flying trivializes the world only as much as raid gear trivializes the world or being max level trivializes low-level mobs. The majority of WoW is instanced content, now more than ever, where no-flying has been enforced except in unique instances (Occulus for example or the Malygos raid).

You're also spinning language to suit you, how is bc and mop "only" but wrath and cata listed off? It's 2 vs 2 in expansion count, and MoP is the most recent with non-flying zones, no flying till level cap, and dev's supporting the idea they are trying to turn away from flying slowly because the game isn't built for engaging aerial play.

Just like what, every other person in this thread? Did you miss the last 466 pages?

SO MAKE AERIAL PLAY ENGAGING. How fucking complicated is that? Other games do it. Blizzard makes the biggest MMO which brings in some of the biggest income of any game and you're telling me they can't be assed to make the game engaging? Yeah, I don't exactly buy that once our feet are stuck on the ground the game is going to suddenly be made more engaging if the Blizzard Devs are telling us "sorry guys, we can't make flying more engaging, so we'll take it away and suddenly everything else we crap out will be twice as engaging!" Yeah...not buying that load for a second.

[Mosotti]

I'm amazed that are still lunatics that say people complain about no flying pre-cap, when no one gives a shit about flying pre-cap. It's one thing to not be able to fly for like 1 week while you do fresh content and another thing to not fly for 2 years, the second year being completely content dry

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I'm amazed that are still lunatics that say people complain about no flying pre-cap, when no one gives a shit about flying pre-cap. It's one thing to not be able to fly for like 1 week while you do fresh content and another thing to not fly for 2 years, the second year being completely content dry

I still haven't seen many good arguments in favor of flying .. besides "we've had it for X amount of years!" ... if you wanna count that. Oh, and "I want flying so it should be so!"

[Sunseeker]

I still haven't seen many good arguments in favor of flying .. besides "we've had it for X amount of years!" ... if you wanna count that. Oh, and "I want flying so it should be so!"

The fact that you choose to ignore them doesn't mean they haven't been posted, repeatedly, throughout this entire thread and others since its inception.

[Drytoast]

I still haven't seen many good arguments in favor of flying .. besides "we've had it for X amount of years!" ... if you wanna count that. Oh, and "I want flying so it should be so!"

That's because you fail at reading I guess.

Reasons to keep flying

- bypass low level mobs that offer no reward or danger
- the ability to fly up and out of harms way should you need to quickly leave your computer, instead of logging out
- the ability to explore places you can't reach on land
- faster more efficient travel from a to b
- the use of mounts you've farmed in the game ad the were intended by design
- Inforces a feeling of accomplishment after you've levelled to max.

Now what reason is their to remove it that I haven't already shot down?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

That's because you fail at reading I guess.

Reasons to keep flying

- bypass low level mobs that offer no reward or danger
- the ability to fly up and out of harms way should you need to quickly leave your computer, instead of logging out
- the ability to explore places you can't reach on land
- faster more efficient travel from a to b
- the use of mounts you've farmed in the game ad the were intended by design
- Inforces a feeling of accomplishment after you've levelled to max.

Now what reason is their to remove it that I haven't already shot down?

All of those fall under "I want!' .... accomplishment? The only way you feel accomplished is by training flight? None of those reason are universal "better for the game" reasons. They just fall under very personal preference. You can still use those mounts. "Fast" is exactly what Blizzard has stated they want to avoid.

[Krixooks]

SO MAKE AERIAL PLAY ENGAGING.

I would almost be pro-flying if Blizzard did make it engaging again, like Skettis and Blade's Edge Plateau.
Unfortunately the flying game has been so boring since then I am so glad they are just working on ground content.

[Ordinator]

SO MAKE AERIAL PLAY ENGAGING.

Engaging ground content sounds a million times better than any amount of shitty flying content they could ever think up. If i wanted to play some awful flying shooter game I'd play something else.

[gestapo]

I still haven't seen many good arguments in favor of flying .. besides "we've had it for X amount of years!" ... if you wanna count that. Oh, and "I want flying so it should be so!"

There isn't a single compelling argument for the removal of flight.

- - - Updated - - -

All of those fall under "I want!' .... accomplishment? The only way you feel accomplished is by training flight? None of those reason are universal "better for the game" reasons. They just fall under very personal preference. You can still use those mounts. "Fast" is exactly what Blizzard has stated they want to avoid.

All your arguments fall under "I want!". None of your reasons are universal "better for the game reasons". They just fall under your personal preference. You can still trudge along on the ground like a pleb if you want to 'immerse' yourself.

Blizzard will keep in flying, so it's a moot point. They're a a business after all and they will make the smarter decision in order to keep making money, which is keeping flying.

[Sunseeker]

Engaging ground content sounds a million times better than any amount of shitty flying content they could ever think up. If i wanted to play some awful flying shooter game I'd play something else.

Why do you have this deluded belief that if they were to not bother with half-assed flying content, that they would suddenly feel compelled to make really engaging ground content.

If they're gonna half-ass their game, they're gonna half-ass all of it.

[PrairieChicken]

I don't give a fuck. If they thought it was a mistake they shouldn't have included it. Clearly they didn't think it was a mistake BC. They didn't think it was a mistake in Wrath. But oh, somehow Cata changed their minds, yet here we are in MoP with flying, and a world designed to include flying no less! So for being such a big fucking mistake, they certainly didn't act on those feelings. In fact, they actively worked to design the world to include flying.

They said multiple times before that they do not like flying. They just came out with guts to implement it right now though. They tried no flying in small scale (IoT, TI) and probably the statistics they got from these allowed them to put no flying for entire continent.

[gestapo]

They said multiple times before that they do not like flying. They just came out with guts to implement it right now though. They tried no flying in small scale (IoT, TI) and probably the statistics they got from these allowed them to put no flying for entire continent.

Obviously it's their game, and while we are interested in playing we will voice our opinions. If they keep these changes the lot of us that prefer flying will most likely leave, and whether or not that affects Blizzard enough remains to be seen. The choice is ultimately up to them and I can't be angry for what they want to do with their own game. I'm a little confused and saddened if they do go through with it because I feel that it would be a disastrous business move, but again, they make their own bed and choices.

All we can do is wait and see.

[Sunseeker]

They said multiple times before that they do not like flying. They just came out with guts to implement it right now though. They tried no flying in small scale (IoT, TI) and probably the statistics they got from these allowed them to put no flying for entire continent.

Took 'em a pretty long time to find their balls if you ask me.

[Drytoast]

All of those fall under "I want!' .... accomplishment? The only way you feel accomplished is by training flight? None of those reason are universal "better for the game" reasons. They just fall under very personal preference. You can still use those mounts. "Fast" is exactly what Blizzard has stated they want to avoid.

Having a pause Button isn't good for the game??? No seriously... you think it's a great thing to have to log out each time life calls you away from the of momentarily?

Getting to the fun parts is bad for the game, what???

Note your lack of reading skills, I never said fly was the ONLY reason one felt accomplished by hitting level cap....btw.

I have yet to see how it's removal adds any thing to the game, that's beyond fairy tale sand day dreams.

It honestly doesn't improve anything with its removal.

With your logic...

Why don't we just remove mounts entirely, and put a fatigue debuff on run, that way people would not be able to skip ANY content, the world would feel even larger, and more immerse!

That's honestly how ridiculous you all sound.

[PrairieChicken]

Took 'em a pretty long time to find their balls if you ask me.

My point is that they didn't suddenly pull out no flying out of a thin air, but they were considering it for a long time before.