1. #10001
    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    Ares they the best examples of interaction you can come up with? Hardly what I would consider engaging gameplay.
    Gameplay is subjective. What you consider gameplay is not what I would consider gameplay.

    YOUR game =/= MY game.

  2. #10002
    Brewmaster Nayaga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    Flight paths - Flying to areas under the control of the game makers. This leaves huge areas limmersive engaging and dangerous.
    Personal mount - You said it - engaged when you choose to be usually avoiding engagement imersion and danger as much as possible.

    As they said, they want to make the world more engaging immersive and dangerous.
    They have said they are removing flight to "make the world more engaging immersive and dangerous", but in my opinion it is bullshit.

    Remove personal flying mounts will have me on flight taxi more. flight taxi have zero engagement, immersion and danger. Removing flight is to slow our content consumption down.

    Also I use personal flying mounts to engage in what I'm interested in. Not to avoid the entire world. If I wanted to do that, I would sit in the cities all day, and I don't!
    Last edited by Nayaga; 2014-06-18 at 08:16 PM.

  3. #10003
    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    Flight paths - Flying to areas under the control of the game makers. This leaves huge areas limmersive engaging and dangerous.
    That leaves huge areas I will never see because I was not engaged in the game at that time where me flying would keep me entertained enough to go somewhere on my on. Be it going AFK or just rummaging though my inventory, The game graphics are not good enough for me to just watch it while someone else drives me.

    Personal mount - You said it - engaged when you choose to be usually avoiding engagement imersion and danger as much as possible.
    It's up to the individual player for immersion and danger and both are very subjective to argue for. What you like and what others like are 2 different things.

    Take TI for instance. That placed sucked when we got it for free, having to pay $50 for it doesn't maker it better when its everywhere.

    As they said, they want to make the world more engaging immersive and dangerous.
    blizzard can't really accomplish that goal. Nothing is stopping gamers from saying, F-U and skipping most of the open world as they buy a level 90, level on the ground as we always have if not level in dungeons and then move to dungons and raids never seeing the world.

    Immersion is up to the gamer and blizzard has no control of that.

  4. #10004
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    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    You would be happier in a single player game. You want the world to revolve around you.
    Many parts of the game are for solo activity, pet battles, archaeology, ore, herbs, skinning, exploring, pet collecting, dailies. fishing and so on. Blizzard created these single player aspects of the game, should we delete these too?

  5. #10005
    Quote Originally Posted by Nayaga View Post
    Sight seeing on a flight taxi is hardly "interacting" with the world.

    The "way" of a MMO is interacting with the world, not ignore it.

    If you have failed to come up with a counter to this:

    Flight Taxi = No interaction with the world or immersion, all content being flown over is ignored.
    Personal flying mount = Engaged in the world when we choose to.

    With personal flying mounts removed, we will use flight taxi more. This will reduce interaction and immersion with the world. The penalty of no flight will push people out of the open world into cities and garrisons. No flight will be a complete failure for many of us.
    Assuming you are going to a zone for a reason it will massively increase interaction with other players. It will be up to Blizzard to give you a reason to go there. It will be more immersive because you will interacting in said zone on the ground in an active state for a greater period of time.

    Contrast that will flying there, drop down pick up what ever, bugger off.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nayaga View Post
    Many parts of the game are for solo activity, pet battles, archaeology, ore, herbs, skinning, exploring, pet collecting, dailies. fishing and so on. Blizzard created this single player aspects of the game, should we delete these too?
    During which time, you are out in the world interacting with it and hopefully other players. All interact takes place on the ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by WarlordsofDraenor View Post
    Anti-flying: Myriad of educated arguments as to why flying is detrimental to the game as a whole.
    Pro-flying: I like flying.
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    GTA 5 has not sold so well on PC and the Multi player version (the one that is measured through Xfire) was not that good.

  6. #10006
    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    You would be happier in a single player game. You want the world to revolve around you.
    I like interaction at the gamers pace. Thats why Im on a PVE server most of the time.

    You want a forced interaction game and the world revolve around your engagement to it. You might as well leave now because MMos are not built for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nayaga View Post
    Many parts of the game are for solo activity, pet battles, archaeology, ore, herbs, skinning, exploring, pet collecting, dailies. fishing and so on. Blizzard created these single player aspects of the game, should we delete these too?
    Apparently he thinks so because that would be so good..... Ugh no if you couldn't read the sarcasm.

  7. #10007
    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    You would be happier in a single player game. You want the world to revolve around you.
    We ALL think the game revolves around US and OUR way of playing. The anti-fliers are just as entitled as the pro-fliers.

  8. #10008
    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    You are in the game, but for anything on the ground you may as well be off line. As you said, you only become active when you dismount. Wouldn't it be more interesting to be active all the time you are playing?
    When I fly places I am being active in the game. Being active in the game = doing anything in the game. Whether it is flying from A to B, or hovering and chatting. I am doing something.

    Me being on the ground is no more active than me being in the air.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
    My starfall brings all the mobs to the yard.
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  9. #10009
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon is the Answer View Post
    Gameplay is subjective. What you consider gameplay is not what I would consider gameplay.

    YOUR game =/= MY game.
    Ok fair enough. You think that's engaging game play. I don't think many people will agree with you but hey enjoy yourself floating in mid air waiting for someone to " flip you off".

    Unless ofcourse you do other things as well? you do don't you??!?
    Quote Originally Posted by WarlordsofDraenor View Post
    Anti-flying: Myriad of educated arguments as to why flying is detrimental to the game as a whole.
    Pro-flying: I like flying.
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    GTA 5 has not sold so well on PC and the Multi player version (the one that is measured through Xfire) was not that good.

  10. #10010
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    Good point. They should disable both flying and flight paths until 6.1
    That would be good for the game.
    I can't think of a game that doesn't have a form of "quick travel" and is also an open world game. I don't think there's a single MMORPG in my library that doesn't have flying or travel points (be they flying, teleporting or whatever).
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  11. #10011
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    When I fly places I am being active in the game. Being active in the game = doing anything in the game. Whether it is flying from A to B, or hovering and chatting. I am doing something.

    Me being on the ground is no more active than me being in the air.
    In the air you are effectively a non active player. The world cannot interact with you nor you with it.

    You are far more active on the ground, because all game activities take place on the ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by WarlordsofDraenor View Post
    Anti-flying: Myriad of educated arguments as to why flying is detrimental to the game as a whole.
    Pro-flying: I like flying.
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    GTA 5 has not sold so well on PC and the Multi player version (the one that is measured through Xfire) was not that good.

  12. #10012
    Brewmaster Nayaga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    Assuming you are going to a zone for a reason it will massively increase interaction with other players. It will be up to Blizzard to give you a reason to go there. It will be more immersive because you will interacting in said zone on the ground in an active state for a greater period of time.

    Contrast that will flying there, drop down pick up what ever, bugger off.
    You are not immersed with anything on a flight taxi. I will use flight taxi to travel since personal flying mounts are being withheld from WoD.


    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    During which time, you are out in the world interacting with it and hopefully other players. All interact takes place on the ground.
    Sadly I can't interact with the world when stuck on a flight taxi. If I had been on my personal flying mount I can swoop down and interact with the world.

    Do you get it now?

  13. #10013
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    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    You would be happier in a single player game. You want the world to revolve around you.
    I Would be happier in a SRPG. Unfortunately almost every major title and even numerous smaller ones in the RPG genre are switching away from creating SRPGs and instead making MMORPGs. ESO, Nevewinter, SWTOR, Final Fantasy, even WoW (originally an SRTS), shit even Sim City went MMO! BioWare/EA is considering it for Mass Effect and I wouldn't be surprised to see them do the same for Dragon Age after Inquisition. The list of previously solo game series turned MMO grows longer ever year. The only genre that remains largely solo are FPS and I hate those. To get my fantasy RPG fix, I'm forced into the MMO genre.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  14. #10014
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon is the Answer View Post
    We ALL think the game revolves around US and OUR way of playing. The anti-fliers are just as entitled as the pro-fliers.
    Again, single player games are what you are looking for. MMO's are all about interaction with the world and other players.

    The game dosen't stop when you go off line much though you'd like it to.
    Quote Originally Posted by WarlordsofDraenor View Post
    Anti-flying: Myriad of educated arguments as to why flying is detrimental to the game as a whole.
    Pro-flying: I like flying.
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    GTA 5 has not sold so well on PC and the Multi player version (the one that is measured through Xfire) was not that good.

  15. #10015
    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    Ok fair enough. You think that's engaging game play. I don't think many people will agree with you but hey enjoy yourself floating in mid air waiting for someone to " flip you off".

    Unless ofcourse you do other things as well? you do don't you??!?
    Enjoy yourself riding on the ground as gamers ignore you there just as they will in the sky.

    You seem to think the ground was some amazing interactive story with every gamers chit-chatting and doing things together.

    It has never been that way and never will be. It was not that way since beta vanilla to current MoP and TI. Removing flying will not change that and taking TI into consideration the only time gamers really did interact was to kill something together which flying didn't screw up. If anything, I would have been there to help sooner.

    Removing flying is not some great gaming miracle and it will not create this interaction you are dreaming of nor some immersion level you seem to think will happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    Again, single player games are what you are looking for. MMO's are all about interaction with the world and other players.

    The game dosen't stop when you go off line much though you'd like it to.
    Incorrect. MMos are about the possibility of interaction in a world that does not stop just because you left it.. Not forced interaction.

    The game you want is not an MMORPG.
    Last edited by quras; 2014-06-18 at 08:27 PM.

  16. #10016
    Brewmaster Nayaga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    In the air you are effectively a non active player. The world cannot interact with you nor you with it.

    You are far more active on the ground, because all game activities take place on the ground.
    When in the air on a flight taxi, yes you are effectively a not active player. On a flying mount you can be an active player anytime you want.

    How do you not understand this?

  17. #10017
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon is the Answer View Post
    Probably in spite of. Path of the Titans was ready to patch in, and they walked away from it. As for Dance Studio, I think people will give up on that... someday.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Good for you mate. Now, when you hit 54 characters spanned over 7 realms, and have been doing alts non stop for 8 years, please come back and share this sentiment again
    That's really your choice at the end of the day, and shouldn't factor in to Blizzards development process. Sure there are plenty of people out there who have played the game through multiple times, and it would absolutely convenience them to be able to face roll fly everywhere, but for the casual explorer, not being able to fly is better for them in the long run. The devs have stated several times they regret flying in the first place, since everyone now gets flying asap and skips all the beautiful content they spent so long working on.

    Just stick with it like it used to be, no flying until you've completed the content at least once. I wouldn't argue with that. But if they never allow flying in Draenor, I wouldn't mind.

  18. #10018
    Brewmaster Nayaga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    Again, single player games are what you are looking for. MMO's are all about interaction with the world and other players.

    The game dosen't stop when you go off line much though you'd like it to.
    Again you have selective reading. Many parts of the game are for solo activity, pet battles, archaeology, ore, herbs, skinning, exploring, pet collecting, dailies. fishing and so on. Blizzard created these single player aspects of the game, should we delete these too?

  19. #10019
    Quote Originally Posted by Nayaga View Post
    You are not immersed with anything on a flight taxi. I will use flight taxi to travel since personal flying mounts are being withheld from WoD.


    Sadly I can't interact with the world when stuck on a flight taxi. If I had been on my personal flying mount I can swoop down and interact with the world.

    Do you get it now?
    You keep bringing up taxi flights. They only exist to allow you to cover large distances and are under control of the game makers.

    You can still interact with the world, you 'll just have to interact with it for longer.

    You are making valid points, I understand what you are saying, but the problem with flying is it removes too much content. Its not good to have the world being interacted with purely on the players terms dropping in and out of the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nayaga View Post
    When in the air on a flight taxi, yes you are effectively a not active player. On a flying mount you can be an active player anytime you want.

    How do you not understand this?
    Yes and limiting the player to controlled flight paths limits the time and areas a player can be inactive.
    Quote Originally Posted by WarlordsofDraenor View Post
    Anti-flying: Myriad of educated arguments as to why flying is detrimental to the game as a whole.
    Pro-flying: I like flying.
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    GTA 5 has not sold so well on PC and the Multi player version (the one that is measured through Xfire) was not that good.

  20. #10020
    Quote Originally Posted by NigelGurney View Post
    You would be happier in a single player game. You want the world to revolve around you.
    If your feelings against flight were so strong, what kept you engaged in WoW for the duration of it's life?

    Also, I kinda think you have the mindset that an MMO is an ant colony, with all the workers doing one thing to progress the colony, and all should be content with the status quo.

    When really an MMO is like a children's playground, with some kids preferring the swings, some on the monkey bars, some in the sand pit, and some kids doing everything.
    Like the cracker fed to the starving man, WoD was handed to the loyal player, starved of new content for 14 months in MoP.
    At first, it was the best thing he had ever tasted, this new meal, but as his stomach started to grumble again, he realised the cracker was indeed just a hollow snack. He soon turned back to the cracker giver, eyes wide, open palms extended, an enquiring look as they asked, "please sir, Can I have some more?".

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