Imo remove flight paths as well - make the world more savage!
Imo remove flight paths as well - make the world more savage!
Except we can invalidate that.
Just as gamers have forced changes in the past to gamer needs and not some random designed crap just because they want to.
Similar to the massive amount of dailies that got changed, or the difficulty of heroics in cataclysm or the battle.net tag fiasco.
If enough people are involved, blizzard will indeed change things and especially with something of tis nature when it has no negative effects on the game.
Just saying, because they can is about as worthless a reason as one can get.
Kinda lets you know that tree really wasn't all that loved doesn't it.
Last edited by quras; 2014-06-20 at 07:14 PM.
It doesn't. Certain players' apparent lack of self control has negative effects, but flying is neutral. Immersion is a personal choice. If you like a sense of mystery, or fighting your way through certain mobs, by all means do it. Every one of your land mounts is still on your account and they'll be useable in current content. If you choose not to use them, that's your choice.But it does have negative effects.
If you feel that it is more immersive to turn of the game's music and listen to your own, then do it. If you alt tab during play, even those long flight paths, you're blowing your immersion, or making an individual choice. The same goes for mindless farming with porn open in that window or on that 16th monitor. I suspect, in fact, that there are a good number of people making the immersion argument who do these very things.
It should have no bearing on my choice, particularly since I made the choice to roll on a PVE server and rather obviously wouldn't have done so if PVP were interesting. Your desire to have world PVP, if you want it, is part of your decision to roll or stay on a particular server. For other forms of PVP, special rule sets apply to the various formats, or so I read.
I'm not a mount farmer, but I have sympathy for the players who farmed rare flying mounts and will now have to watch them hop around like demented chickens for any content that is relevant to game play after level cap.
Using the logic that supports many no flying mounts, we should just dispense with mounts all together at the beginning of an expansion, especially those water striders. If a little bit of slow down and slogging is good, a lot would obviously better. Let's also disable stealth and stealth equivalents such as invisibility or camouflage. Just in case, we also need to disable gliders and their equivalents, because we've seen how those can be used on Timeless.
Removing something that has been a long standing part of the game, its rewards, and its gold sinks is just cheesy. Arguments to the contrary tend to boil down to a lack of self management, and we all know how well it would go over on these forums if you tried to defend unwillingness to lose weight on the same basis.
Simple break down:
Flying, you can choose to ride whatever mount you want, or use a random mount macro if that floats your boat.
No flying, a number of mounts that were the carrot on the stick of an achievement are now unavailable to a level capped player, playing current content. Arguing that they can still hop is like arguing in favor of dating a blow up doll that you dress up to look like your partner.
With COVID-19 making its impact on our lives, I have decided that I shall hang in there for my remaining days, skip some meals, try to get children to experiment with making henna patterns on their skin, and plant some trees. You know -- live, fast, dye young, and leave a pretty copse. I feel like I may not have that quite right.
The thing that most annoys me about this thread is that people will say "flight is a detriment" and give some reasoning based on their own perception, and/or what Blizz has stated.
The problem with the first reasoning is that it is only a detriment to the way you play the game. As the game has multiple ways to play it, while you perceive flying is a detriment to you, it is most assuredly not a detriment to others.
The problem with the second reasoning is that Blizz makes an inflated argument based on game play that has never been a part of WoW (some type of diablo/metal gear hybrid), while subversively blaming flight for that lack of game play.
If Blizz, as a game company, can not design content that includes the rivetting, guard watching, tactical assault game play Bashiok describe in his post as well as flying (with all ITS potential as well), then how much confidence do you have of WoW going into the future, if stuff just becomes to hard to design around that they have to cut it?
Why is Blizzard making such awesome ground only content, content that will be super awesome and engaging and immersive and cool, and yet STILL be scared it will be boring enough for us to want to fly over?
"Wow, look at all this awesome ground content we are making"
"But people can fly over it"
"But, it's awesome ground content, they will land and do the awesome ground content"
"Nope, they will fly over it"
"Don't you have faith we can make content people will land for? Also, where are they flying?"
"Nope, and not important. Better restrict it outright. Player choice is not the priority here."
But, all that aside, flying mounts give Blizz MONEY. Lots of it. Selling flying mounts rakes in the cash. Why would they give that up? They are still selling a flying mount with an advance copy of WoD with no disclaimer on it's possible restricted use, and in game customer service afaik is still saying flight will be available in 6.1.
"These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "
"These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "
Ya know, even if they didn't allow flying at all, i dont really care. I mean, yea I'd like to go fly around and do all the quests or explore. But aside from that I dont really plan on flying anyway.
Even in mists I only flew to do dailies.
This whole "no flying right away" or maybe not at all, doesnt bother me. Though i can see how it would suck for those who actually farm mats. If you're an herbalist or miner, you're screwed lol.
Also, this may not bother me, but thats not to say i want flying removed. I would be highly upset if they straight up removed it.
"These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "
This is all very pretty, except for the fact that neither Flying nor Immersion are personal choices - they affect everything and everyone around you.
If I "choose" to use ground mount for whatever pretty reason you indicated, it doesn't change the fact that while I'm fighting my way to an objective, you can just swoop down with your flying mount and take it - so much for personal choice.
It doesn't change the fact that you can just wait at a safe height for me to spend my cooldowns on a rare and then gank me to take it for yourself - so much for personal choice.
You have all the options while flying, and I have no options while on a ground mount.
It's very easy for you to defend flying mounts' absolute convenience and call it personal choice.
It's not a choice if the alternatives have no weight in your decision.
The players that are upset about losing flying in new content, somehow aren't upset that flying makes ground mounts useless.
They somehow forget that they wouldn't have flying while leveling anyway.
They somehow don't mind not having flying in instanced content.
It's all very pretty, except for the fact it's false.
Last edited by Nurvus; 2014-06-20 at 09:46 PM.
Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
Why did you necro a thread?
Many, many, many many times in this thread alone, Pro flying people have suggested ways to keep flying yet balance it against ground mounts so both are relevant. They are aware of the perceived uselessness of ground mounts, and are happy to compromise in order to appease both camps.
Several times in this thread alone, people have stated they are happy with no flight while leveling, as well as waiting for flight until 6.1, providing the epic quest chain to unlock it, like Bliz stated, will be implemented. Flying while leveling is NOT the bone of contention here.
Instanced content is a horrible justification for no flight in the world. In an instance, you are there to compete in the objectives of that instance. You aren't going into an instance to explore, do archeaology, farm mats, get to a quest hub, whatever, you are there to do the instance.
Besides which, people STILL SKIP MOBS IN INSTANCED CONTENT. There has been many examples of a raid being able to avoid a whole bunch of trash on the way to a boss cuz it was irrelevant, just as there has been examples of that raid having to engage trash to get to a boss. If the raid chooses to skip all the irrelevant trash, are they less immersed in the raid than the raid group that takes the extra hour to fully clear the raid of trash?
"These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "
Ground mounts also give Blizz MONEY. Lots of it. Selling ground mounts rakes in the cash. Why would they keep ground mounts useless due to flying mounts? They are still selling a ground mount with an advance copy of WoD.
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I don't want Blizzard to remove flight.
I also want Blizzard to stop taking flying away at the start of each expansion with a stupid magical "Weather makes Mounts Sneeze" debuff and requiring "No-Sneeze much WoW Riding Licence" to fly again at cap.
I just want flying mounts to a) be balanced with ground mounts and b) stop trivializing content.
I want flying to be AWESOME, but I also want ground mounts to stay relevant.
That is all. Fix flying and keep it.
But, CheeseSandwich...
Will you - and all the others - please STOP confusing the act of using flying mounts to travel, skipping whatever content is in between; with the act of completing a quest by (ab)using flying as much as possible to make it easier, safer and faster?
Can you?
I have not once said that flying mounts should not be used to skip a quest hub.
Content is content and it's YOUR choice whether to do it or not.
The issues brought by Flying have to do with HOW it changes the way you approach/do content.
Example: Blizzard gives you 5 mobs, 1 boss and 1 chest and you just land on top of the chest, collect it and fly away.That's not just "skipping content" - it's cheesing/breaking it.
Because even if Stealth allows you to do "almost the same"; you do it MUCH slower, some Mobs can spot you; other stealthed players CAN ambush you.
But there's no "counter" to flying other than "can't fly here" - which is STUPID.
Last edited by Nurvus; 2014-06-20 at 10:20 PM.
Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
Why did you necro a thread?
Then we are, for the majority, in agreement, and I would enjoy partaking in a mutual virtual high five.
The only point of contention I have is with the 'taking away of flying at the start of expacs', as I think that this a a cool reward for getting to max level in that expac, and is a great way of showing just how far your hero has come in any new 'savage' land.
Last edited by CheeseSandwich; 2014-06-20 at 10:37 PM.
"These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "
*4megapixel high five*
Well then at least find a better excuse for taking flying away.
Because apart of Cold-weather Flying, every other requirement was just retarded...
I would remove the "expansion-based restriction" and make flying in areas you're not "trained for", have "penalties":
- Northrend would slow you and deal frost damage per second unless you have Cold-weather Flying training
- Azeroth would slow you and deal <zone appropriate type> damage per second unless you have the Flight Master's Licence
- Pandaria would slow and/or apply random directional speed penalty (like the dragon boss in Vortex Pinnacle) unless you have the Wisdom of the Four Winds
- Isle of Thunder, would deal heavy periodic nature damage.
- Not sure about Timeless Isle, other than making flying really slow since it's a time-based interference.
Give us immersive penalties, not stupid magical restrictions.
Next thing Blizzard will implement speed limit, sky police and traffic lights.
Last edited by Nurvus; 2014-06-20 at 10:37 PM.
Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
Why did you necro a thread?
To be fair there's absolutely zero proof to say that people won't buy ground mounts if they add them to the cash shop come WoD because they're just ground mounts. Hell, they'll probably just do what they are doing with this nightmare warforged horse thing. Make it LOOK like a ground mount, give it ground mount animations, advertise it as a ground mount and still allow it to fly for the old zones.
They advertised flying so god damn little with that particular mount that I didn't know that it could fly until yesterday when I saw one take off into the air. And yet a lot of people on my server bought one.
I don't think this is going to kill their future sales as much as one might think.
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Well, it's not, because they are still there and still usable in WoD. No arguing certain mounts would look retarded (Ashes of Alar) But pretending they can't be used at all is a blatant lie since they're supposedly adding ground animations for all of them. Supposedly anyway
Sure, I can happily separate those 2. I can do this for 2 reasons. In max level questing areas, the targets of the quest are all sprinkled around in the area the quest dictates you quest in. There is NO difference in this scenario, because the using a ground mount or a flying mount will still get you to the next lot of mobs you have to kill in roughly the same time, if one bothers mounting up at all.
The second reason is flying never directly contributes to me finishing the elements of the quest. I CAN NOT hover above my objective and get the credit for my quest. I am using flight to get to my objective area, then dismounting and creating a blood bath.
I agree, flying changes the way you approach content. Thus, in areas Blizz doesn't want us to fly, from Sunwell Plateau, to Tourny of Champions (when it was in the 'being built' phasing stage), to Molten Front, to TI and IoT, they are able to sanction those areas off from flight to prevent that needless circumvention of content. So how did this become a problem in the wider world?
A world we have all leveled through, from 90-100, and now we are just cruising past to get back to those TI, IoT, MF, SwP, ToC areas? WITH THE FREEDOM of stopping on the way to engage with anything that might pop up on the way, OR just change our minds mid flight and go do something else/help a mate/anything?
And if Blizz has suddenly run out of ways to make compelling ways to cater to flying, then what happened to creativity there?
Last edited by CheeseSandwich; 2014-06-20 at 10:40 PM.
"These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "