1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Let us continue, in tbc it was difficult to get flying that was actually useful, most of the time I used my ground mount because 60% sucked. Wrath made sure you couldn't fly till 77. Cata, let's not look at Cata, they have said Cata was the worst for several reasons. Mop was the first step in the other direction, you legit cannot fly until 90, no alt privilege either

    Yes, but everything was more difficult to get in classic and TBC.


    And don't get me wrong again. I preferred the MoP way over any other way. I think in Cata, that they should have only sold flying to 85 chars. I'm simply contesting the "they're restricting it now, so it means all of Blizzard/majority doesn't like it" by saying "they had to like the idea to implement it to begin with and then preserve it for multiple expansions.".



    In the end, I'll stick with thinking them designing content for ground mounts should be the way they go, with flying only being sold at level cap. Not before (unless maybe you leveled at least 3 chars to 100, as an example), and not after, by making up some arbitrarily wall/restriction.
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  2. #1022
    Scarab Lord roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Greg said he regretted it and would have seen it implemented differently. He was also very careful to use 'I' instead of 'we' on those tweets, to establish it as his own personal opinion. And, as he tweeted, WoW wasn't his personal fiefdom. If he had half as much control as this forum thinks he did, we would be playing Nerubians and Mantid by now.

    On-topic, frankly, ground travel bores the hell out of me. The same rock formation doesn't get more interesting the fifth time I ride past it regardless of what mount I'm using, and even showing off some of my less-common mounts like the Argent Tourney stuff gets old after a while. Mob packs in WoW aren't dangerous at level cap and frankly never will be, outside endgame zones like Isle of Thunder/Timeless Isle, because they have to be balanced for the average questing player in that zone's questing gear. Three Spinning Crane Kicks and a Fists of Fury later, the annoyance is over with and I'm back on track.

    So all this talk from Blizzard about reintroducing danger to the world by confining us to ground mounts for a patch is a bunch of bupkiss, especially on PvE/RP-PvE servers where we'll be getting a deflag option where nothing will flag us for PvP or allow us to attack another player outside BGs/Arenas. It's not dangerous when I can steamroll the poor bastards that aggro on my monk who makes a hobby of beating things five times her size to death barefisted, nor is it terribly difficult to learn the terrain and the fastest way around it. If it's because they want flying to feel like a reward, that's their prerogative and I had an easier time swallowing that line. If it's an attempt to revitalize world PvP, more power to them but it won't affect my gameplay outside constraining me to my ground mounts and flight paths.

    This isn't a dealbreaker in the face of everything else Warlords is bringing to the table, but it's certainly a strong incentive to just chill in my Garrison or the cities and RP between dungeon and LFR queues and maybe spend ten minutes exploring 'til 6.1 hits and I can explore every nook and cranny of Draenor at my leisure.
    Finally a respectable argument from the other side that doesn't sound whiney, though I will offer this. think of WoD as a timeless isle/ GW2 thing. they are adding a multitude of things that flying would trivialize

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Yes, but everything was more difficult to get in classic and TBC.


    And don't get me wrong again. I preferred the MoP way over any other way. I think in Cata, that they should have only sold flying to 85 chars. I'm simply contesting the "they're restricting it now, so it means all of Blizzard/majority doesn't like it" by saying "they had to like the idea to implement it to begin with and then preserve it for multiple expansions.".



    In the end, I'll stick with thinking them designing content for ground mounts should be the way they go, with flying only being sold at level cap. Not before (unless maybe you leveled at least 3 chars to 100, as an example), and not after, by making up some arbitrarily wall/restriction.
    I don't disagree with that (I also honestly wish I could give flying to alts) But, I see why they are trying it, because WoD really is WoW 2.0, it has a lot of new things they are trying with endgame. That flying would ruin. I listed them before, basically they are real-time scenarios.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players

  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Yes I can, it is called logic. Seeing, no wait. Seeing as they are taking it away for 6.0, kinda makes you think they prooooobably don't like it
    My brain tells me I should eat all those cookies in the jar. I conclude that I shouldn't. It should be easily distinguishable what is logical and what isn't. It is possible some at Blizz like, or liked flying, but for the sake of the game and it's mmo nature. That it's ok to remove it to an extent.

  4. #1024
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    So, hold on. I'm going to go ahead and give you my raid leader's email, and you can tell her to let me ride my ground mount while I level, or farm mats, or do quests, or get to dungeons. All things that apparently are not a race (lolwut)

    And just to reiterate in a way that isn't sarcastic

    "Be level 100 by the time raiding opens"

    "Get all available crafted gear for first week of raiding"

    "Get all reputation gear and recipies"

    "Get all available dungeon gear"

    In the order I listed above. All of these are a race against time, not other people. Other people isn't the issue, time is

    WOW, do I NOT miss that type of crap. Tell your raid leader, from me, that she needs to make sure to regularly change her [sort-of-expletive] lest she die of TSS. Seriously, even if you WERE competeing for #1 guild in the WORLD, it's a moot point - it's a game! You get NO reward for playing it other than enjoyment. You are paying money. The people who do get rewarded? The streamers? They make their living off of more than just WoW, and the one's that "live the dream" (nightmare imo, something that's supposed to epitomize fun becoming a literal job) and have sponsorships - that will NEVER be their guild.

    A GOOD guild/raid leader would say "we're organizing groups to do questing and running dungeons and we'll help people craft gear to fill in gaps, but come hell or high water when the first raids open up we're going, optimal or not". A BAD guild/raid leader makes you stress out over something as trivial as a game. My two cents.

  5. #1025
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post


    I don't disagree with that (I also honestly wish I could give flying to alts) But, I see why they are trying it, because WoD really is WoW 2.0, it has a lot of new things they are trying with endgame. That flying would ruin. I listed them before, basically they are real-time scenarios.


    So long as they learn from it and stop being wet noodles, bending over whenever whine threads pop up. We'll see how it unwraps, but again, their wishy-washiness continues being a pain in the ass.
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  6. #1026
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Clearly you have never driven a corvette if all you're doing is driving slow.



    You have flown at max level. IS that hard to understand? Removing it now just seems petty and then to only get it back months later and well after you reached max level making all the reasons it was removed rather pointless.

    Does he have a fairly solid reason to get a refund, I think he does. He didn't buy that mount to rid it on the ground I bet and since we could fly at max level for nearly 7 years, I bet he thought he could fly in current content once he reached max level.

    I think he has a valid point in asking for a refund.
    C'mon, are you just skipping the arguments you cant answer now? He can fly it in all the content that he bought it for, Blizzard did not sell futures contract, they sold a mount to be used right now right here. With your logic, I should get refund on all my susbscription fees if level cap is increased, because I paid them to play at max level in current content.

  7. #1027
    It's already been said that we will be able to fly in 6.1, they said it's coming through a quest chain and that's something that takes time to develop and not just something that they can throw together as decide in 2 days.

    He's hinting at that this a bit of an experiment of maybe restricting flying even more or simply disallowing it in the expansion after WoD.

    Personally, I don't mind at all, I think the game would be better without flying, but right now the game is designed around flying in such a way that they really can't remove it in a neat way. Places like the Timeless Isle and Isle of Thunder being no-fly zones works great. Both those islands are awesome and would have been shitty if we could fly there.
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  8. #1028
    Scarab Lord roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowyFanatic View Post
    WOW, do I NOT miss that type of crap. Tell your raid leader, from me, that she needs to make sure to regularly change her [sort-of-expletive] lest she die of TSS. Seriously, even if you WERE competeing for #1 guild in the WORLD, it's a moot point - it's a game! You get NO reward for playing it other than enjoyment. You are paying money. The people who do get rewarded? The streamers? They make their living off of more than just WoW, and the one's that "live the dream" (nightmare imo, something that's supposed to epitomize fun becoming a literal job) and have sponsorships - that will NEVER be their guild.

    A GOOD guild/raid leader would say "we're organizing groups to do questing and running dungeons and we'll help people craft gear to fill in gaps, but come hell or high water when the first raids open up we're going, optimal or not". A BAD guild/raid leader makes you stress out over something as trivial as a game. My two cents.
    Of course there is people to help do things, but I have the most fun, well HAD I don't so much anymore. Was that race, even if it was just a server race. that feeling when you are going as hard as you can, and downing the shit out of a raid boss and you're like woooo.

    I am one of those people who couldn't give a crap about gear, I often give up peices to others (As long as my spot isnt filled because suddenly they are doing more dps. Which loot council doesn't realize is because they have better gear. *vents*)
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players

  9. #1029
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    Doesn't bother me. If this is true it's going to be funny seeing all the QQ threads about how much they hate WoW and Blizzard for doing it and that they're going to quit. People would quit WoW solely because they can't fly in a single area...lol, that's just a little silly. Really shows how much they're interested in WoW too. If this is all it takes for you to quit then WoW was never a game for you in the first place.
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  10. #1030
    Scarab Lord roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    So long as they learn from it and stop being wet noodles, bending over whenever whine threads pop up. We'll see how it unwraps, but again, their wishy-washiness continues being a pain in the ass.
    I think we can Ignore cata. Cata was literally half-assed because they used all their time fixing old world to get new people. I really don't think heroics was the issue with cata, it was like a year of 4.0 mixed with the fact there was no 10 man (flex) mode.

    with cata out of the way, they really arent so wishy washy.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players

  11. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Finally a respectable argument from the other side that doesn't sound whiney, though I will offer this. think of WoD as a timeless isle/ GW2 thing. they are adding a multitude of things that flying would trivialize
    That, I get. I do--honestly. I just don't find ground travel very engaging in a game where my monk has done her part to stop the Scourge, break the Twilight's Hammer, and participated in a revolution after doing her damnedest to protect her homeland from her own faction, and done most of that on dragonback (or, more recently, serpentback). I can see the value of ground travel while leveling, so flight feels like a 'hell yeah!' moment, but at level cap it becomes more jarring to immersion than suddenly swiping it away does (which can be justified as keeping a low profile, seeing as how 11/10 things on Draenor are out to kill you and you don't know the terrain yet).

    But they haven't really brought up flight trivializing those events since Blizzcon, if they ever did. Since then they've gone on about the combat mechanics being the core of the gameplay (which, while not false, are hardly challenged by level 93 mobs) and Draenor feeling dangerous (which has the same pitfalls as before, at least during normal travel).

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  12. #1032
    I like the ability to use a flying mount, it's pretty cool. But if Blizz decide to take it away and make it only ground mounts then hey ho, doesn't make that big of a difference. I certainly won't be threatening to unsub/not buy the xpac. Are you people kidding?? How highly strung are you that you're willing to quit a game over something so small. "If you take away something that I enjoy in the game that has little to no baring on my overall ability to PVE/PVP I will quit so help me!"

    Get over yourselves, jeez.

  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    You could be dead on. Blizzard is a pro at looking at other games and leaching off someone elses ideas, changing them around making it their own.

    Take garrisons, it's a mix of SWTOR companions, Sims time management and farmville upkeep with multiple tweaks. A copy of other games mashed together with tweaks.

    But removing flying from max level?

    Thats one of the more stupidest moves I have seen blizzard make in 10 years. As if flying at max level somehow hindered the game during level.
    Seriously? Everyone "steals" ideas from everyone. It's better to "steal" a good idea than to create lousy content themselves.

  14. #1034
    Scarab Lord roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    That, I get. I do--honestly. I just don't find ground travel very engaging in a game where my monk has done her part to stop the Scourge, break the Twilight's Hammer, and participated in a revolution after doing her damnedest to protect her homeland from her own faction, and done most of that on dragonback (or, more recently, serpentback). I can see the value of ground travel while leveling, so flight feels like a 'hell yeah!' moment, but at level cap it becomes more jarring to immersion than suddenly swiping it away does (which can be justified as keeping a low profile, seeing as how 11/10 things on Draenor are out to kill you and you don't know the terrain yet).

    But they haven't really brought up flight trivializing those events since Blizzcon, if they ever did. Since then they've gone on about the combat mechanics being the core of the gameplay (which, while not false, are hardly challenged by level 93 mobs) and Draenor feeling dangerous (which has the same pitfalls as before, at least during normal travel).
    this actually worries me, we know Blizzard always offers more than they deliver. I am however holding hope they they do add these kinda, Real-time Senarios and timeless crap

    Side note: think of WoD as wow 2.0, if you look at it that way, things make more sense. I think they really dropped titan to focus on giving WoW a kick in the ass.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I think we can Ignore cata. Cata was literally half-assed because they used all their time fixing old world to get new people. I really don't think heroics was the issue with cata, it was like a year of 4.0 mixed with the fact there was no 10 man (flex) mode.

    with cata out of the way, they really arent so wishy washy.

    Oh yeah they are. Sadly, they still are. And they need to stop being so, and hiding between silly excuses to do things.
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  16. #1036
    Fluffy Kitten Callei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    this actually worries me, we know Blizzard always offers more than they deliver. I am however holding hope they they do add these kinda, Real-time Senarios and timeless crap
    I doubt they'll axe the events, at least the Timeless Isle-style ones. Real-time events (which I'm not too sure on the details of, since I don't play GW2 or RIFT) may require extra tech work, but we'll see how beta unfolds.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Side note: think of WoD as wow 2.0, if you look at it that way, things make more sense. I think they really dropped titan to focus on giving WoW a kick in the ass.
    It's an interesting analogy, but not really one I think works. 2.0 would probably involve huge overhauls to the combat system to keep up with the current MMO scene like TERA and Neverwinter, with more focus on player mobility and getting out of the way of nasty stuff before it kills you than standing in front of the dragon with your shield up, and probably a lengthy timeskip to let them start with a clean lore slate (like Forgotten Realms did with D&D 4E, where all but the longest-lived characters have had time to pass away or die in the upheavals from Mystra's murder). This is more like WoW 1.5--same game, new coat of paint, and a few design leaps of faith based on their experiences with the last four expansions.

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  17. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    I doubt they'll axe the events, at least the Timeless Isle-style ones. Real-time events (which I'm not too sure on the details of, since I don't play GW2 or RIFT) may require extra tech work, but we'll see how beta unfolds.
    There's no way they will. It's one of the reasons they wanted to keep people on the ground. Flying from rare spawn to rare spawn location isn't what they want.

  18. #1038
    Quote Originally Posted by Srg56 View Post
    All of this is basically a war between people who actually want to play a mmoRPG and those for whom WoW is just cheap entertainment. Guess who is who. Not terribly challenging to figure out. Blizzard has catered in the last years, arguably since end of TBC, to the cheap entertainment crowd at the game's expense. Maybe they got tired of cheapening the game experience, got their souls back from the devil, or just want to experiment with moving in a different direction this time around with WoD. Nobody knows.
    Good post. Would read again.

  19. #1039
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    It will come back mid expansion I feel.
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  20. #1040
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    And so it should. Who would risk a falling death for two frogs worth of coins and a single lesser charm?
    Probably people who play the game to have fun rather than min/max like a robot.

    I think they're both still playing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    You could be dead on. Blizzard is a pro at looking at other games and leaching off someone elses ideas, changing them around making it their own.

    Take garrisons, it's a mix of SWTOR companions, Sims time management and farmville upkeep with multiple tweaks. A copy of other games mashed together with tweaks.

    But removing flying from max level?

    Thats one of the more stupidest moves I have seen blizzard make in 10 years. As if flying at max level somehow hindered the game during level.
    Warcraft 1 was "stolen" from Dune 2000. Diablo was "stolen" from various Roguelikes (not that anybody cared since it was essentially a dead genre at that point apart from a few enthusiasts).

    Everything Blizzard has ever done has been about refinement and bringing together the best concepts in a genre to redefine and polish it. They're syncretic in their approach.

    But sure whine about ripoffs. Not like that horse has been dead since the 90s or anything.
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