Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Barkloud]

I won't endeavour to guess the thoughts of people who wrote code that protects griefers from exclusion or a huge raid instance ever seen by about 1% of the playerbase. I will not endeavour to guess business thinking behind wing clip because I actually suspect communication between dev team and the stakeholders to be extremely bad. Remember: a lot of the team working on WoD have been taken off Titan which I also suspect was their beloved pet project. They were put back on WoW which has in meantime became a very different game. Can you guess just how healthy the atmosphere there really is?

I would imagine the atmosphere at Blizzard to be quite stressful. They have not provided any content for MOP in ages. WoD is behind schedule. The forums are blazing on fire. The base price of WoD makes it the most expensive mmo in history. The MVP's are slamming travel stating it is inefficient. GC left, who know who he took with him. Blizz external communication is terrible.

All that and we are getting ready to end another quarter. It will be interesting to see the sub +/- numbers.

[Destruktion]

What a crock. There's gonna be another version of the cloak...more stupid rep grinds, some form of pot and food I need to keep up with. You think blizzards just gonna 180 from all that?

If you're a hardcore raider then this is what you signed up for.

[Sweetpeaz]

If you're a hardcore raider then this is what you signed up for.

I liked the cloak bit, because it kept me busy for a large part of the expansion. However, I was so burned out of raids I ran LFR once in SoO and haven't touched another in 6 months.

[Real World]

There is a third way this could go. The ground game will be like all the ground game in the past (like TI or IoT), some will like it some will not. No flight will be permanent and tough shit for those that hated content like IT and loved flying.

As much as I am looking forward to trying WoD, and testing the content myself, I am not confident it could ever be permanently removed. Even the anti-flight crowd has confessed to "convenience" as a main factor for flight. When it comes to flight, TBC, Wrath, and MoP had it right. Start on the ground, get to max, get flying. Cataclysm ruined that setup. Flying never should have been permitted in Kalimdor or the EK. It should have been a "treat" you got for hitting max level in the expansion. Flying from 60-69 and 70-79 really does cause faster consumption of the content. Even though Outlands is 8 years old, I feel the feeling of wonder might still have existed had flying been held to level 70. Sure, people could still rush to 70 to fly, but then they would be off to Northrend, where they are back on the ground for another 9 levels, until they hit 80. Cataclysm should have made ground access in each of the zones, particularly Deepholm. Then, flying at the start would not even have been necessary.

That part right there was the turning point. The moment when Pandora's box was opened. Now, four years later, they are over compensating with ground content, even though MoP had the perfect recipe. Ground from 85-89, flight at 90, no flying spots for end game content in the open world. Who knows how 6.0/6.05 will go? We may lose no players by 6.1, or we may lose millions. We won't have any idea until 6.1 goes to the PTR and the patch notes indicate how mounts will now magically overcome the "reasons" why we were grounded to begin with. As a fan of Gnomes and Goblins, I hope they bring in some Engineers to sample the air, and develop some special injection which counteracts the effects of the thin atmosphere high above the ground in Draenor. A little gnome/goblin lore can't hurt.

[Deleted]

I would imagine the atmosphere at Blizzard to be quite stressful. They have not provided any content for MOP in ages. WoD is behind schedule. The forums are blazing on fire. The base price of WoD makes it the most expensive mmo in history. The MVP's are slamming travel stating it is inefficient. GC left, who know who he took with him. Blizz external communication is terrible.

All that and we are getting ready to end another quarter. It will be interesting to see the sub +/- numbers.

Could very well be. I only had any kind of actual insight to their QA side of the engineering thanks to working with a guy who was previously with Blizz.
He switched from Activision Blizzard to NYSE (!) for a more wholesome environment and better treatment as an employee. He was a rock solid tester and very easy to work with so I guess he wasn't the one to blame for sour experience with Bliz.

I wouldn't however bet on release price of WoD. Current pre-order includes the boost so it can be actually considerably cheaper. Not that I'm willing to spend more than 1 sub on it as of now. Preferably like a fiver.

[Real World]

I would imagine the atmosphere at Blizzard to be quite stressful. They have not provided any content for MOP in ages. WoD is behind schedule. The forums are blazing on fire. The base price of WoD makes it the most expensive mmo in history. The MVP's are slamming travel stating it is inefficient. GC left, who know who he took with him. Blizz external communication is terrible.

All that and we are getting ready to end another quarter. It will be interesting to see the sub +/- numbers.

And, to the other side of that token, just to show unbiased, objective views: WoD is gaining momentum from all of the hype, more than 1M copies have been pre-ordered within the first 60 days of sales, LvL 90 boost sales have been climbing as well. Aside from a 10-12 month (esitmated) stretch without content, people are still playing. As of yesterday, players can now purchase Vanilla - MoP for a total of $20, thus offsetting the cost to play the game. It will not cost new players more money to play the game. In fact, they will pay less, overall, than established players. Plus, if we only purchase the regular digital edition at launch, the price will still likely be $39 as it was in the past.

When it comes to WoD, there is a lot to look forward to, and some high expectations to be met. People who are growing bored with the game over all, may finally be getting a target to aim their frustrations at, and their excuse to leave. Personally, until I see that flying is not coming back in 6.1, with my own eyes, I will give the expansion the benefit of the doubt, and put it through its paces to test the quality of the content, and the new features being added. I am optimistic the new content will be amazing, while remaining realistic that no-flying will be a temporary event. Those who are overreacting to the situation, are absolutely entitled to do so; however, they should not be surprised when their point of view is scrutinized by persons using logic and reason. Also, it does not help that the other emotional posters, of the opposing opinion, come in to get a rise from them.

[Barkloud]

And, to the other side of that token, just to show unbiased, objective views: WoD is gaining momentum from all of the hype, more than 1M copies have been pre-ordered within the first 60 days of sales, LvL 90 boost sales have been climbing as well. Aside from a 10-12 month (esitmated) stretch without content, people are still playing. As of yesterday, players can now purchase Vanilla - MoP for a total of $20, thus offsetting the cost to play the game. It will not cost new players more money to play the game. In fact, they will pay less, overall, than established players. Plus, if we only purchase the regular digital edition at launch, the price will still likely be $39 as it was in the past.

When it comes to WoD, there is a lot to look forward to, and some high expectations to be met. People who are growing bored with the game over all, may finally be getting a target to aim their frustrations at, and their excuse to leave. Personally, until I see that flying is not coming back in 6.1, with my own eyes, I will give the expansion the benefit of the doubt, and put it through its paces to test the quality of the content, and the new features being added. I am optimistic the new content will be amazing, while remaining realistic that no-flying will be a temporary event. Those who are overreacting to the situation, are absolutely entitled to do so; however, they should not be surprised when their point of view is scrutinized by persons using logic and reason. Also, it does not help that the other emotional posters, of the opposing opinion, come in to get a rise from them.

So the price has been confirmed at $39.99? That is awesome news.

[Real World]

So the price has been confirmed at $39.99? That is awesome news.

I made certain to say "likely", not "confirmed". However, I look at the $50 purchase price like this:

Regular digital expansion - $40
LvL 90 Boost - $60
-------------------------------
Total purchase - $100

$50 purchase for a $100 value. Sounds like a good sale if I ever saw one. The only people who would, or should, object, would be the group who never wanted the boost. Personally, I think they should offer a version without the boost for $29.

[Nayaga]

As much as I am looking forward to trying WoD, and testing the content myself, I am not confident it could ever be permanently removed. Even the anti-flight crowd has confessed to "convenience" as a main factor for flight. When it comes to flight, TBC, Wrath, and MoP had it right. Start on the ground, get to max, get flying. Cataclysm ruined that setup. Flying never should have been permitted in Kalimdor or the EK. It should have been a "treat" you got for hitting max level in the expansion. Flying from 60-69 and 70-79 really does cause faster consumption of the content. Even though Outlands is 8 years old, I feel the feeling of wonder might still have existed had flying been held to level 70. Sure, people could still rush to 70 to fly, but then they would be off to Northrend, where they are back on the ground for another 9 levels, until they hit 80. Cataclysm should have made ground access in each of the zones, particularly Deepholm. Then, flying at the start would not even have been necessary.

That part right there was the turning point. The moment when Pandora's box was opened. Now, four years later, they are over compensating with ground content, even though MoP had the perfect recipe. Ground from 85-89, flight at 90, no flying spots for end game content in the open world. Who knows how 6.0/6.05 will go? We may lose no players by 6.1, or we may lose millions. We won't have any idea until 6.1 goes to the PTR and the patch notes indicate how mounts will now magically overcome the "reasons" why we were grounded to begin with. As a fan of Gnomes and Goblins, I hope they bring in some Engineers to sample the air, and develop some special injection which counteracts the effects of the thin atmosphere high above the ground in Draenor. A little gnome/goblin lore can't hurt.

When I watched Alex Afrasiabi's famous video, I really felt that he and Blizzard are committed to no flying for Wod. They really believe they can make a world with no flight and that we enjoy it. Nothing short of a large subscription loss will bring back flying and I really doubt that will happen.

[Real World]

When I watched Alex Afrasiabi's famous video, I really felt they he and Blizzard are committed to no flying for Wod. They really believe they can make a world with no flight and that we enjoy it. Nothing short of a large subscription loss will bring back flying and I really doubt that will happen.

Other things, not even the caliber or convenience of flying have cause major drops in numbers in the past. The long year of the Dragon Soul, Dailies in 5.05, 5.1, and 5.2, and other events like those have caused major spikes and drops in the game. What happens next, and how it transpires is a mystery to us all. We won't know if anything went wrong, or what it was, until the Q1 call in May 2015.

[Nayaga]

I am optimistic the new content will be amazing, while remaining realistic that no-flying will be a temporary event.

This is just an opinion.

Those who are overreacting to the situation, are absolutely entitled to do so; however, they should not be surprised when their point of view is scrutinized by persons using logic and reason. Also, it does not help that the other emotional posters, of the opposing opinion, come in to get a rise from them.

Many on both sides of the argument post with emotion.

I doubt many posters really understand what logic is. It's important to understand that an argument can be logical without necessarily being true. Consider, for example, the following:
•All women are brilliant.
•I am a woman.
•Therefore, I am brilliant.

Is this argument logical? Indeed, it is. The test for logic in this instance is not whether the statement is reasonable, but whether the argument follows the almost mathematical construction of the syllogism.

...

Here is another way I explained logic recently. It's been a very long time since my logic classes in college, but from what I remember, Logic is a set of mathematical rules to prove if a argument is valid, not if it is true or false.

The premises of an argument do not have actually to be true in order for the argument to be logically valid. An argument is valid if the premises and conclusion are related to each other in the right way so that if the premises were true, then the conclusion would have to be true as well. We can recognize in the above case that even if one of the premises is actually false, that if they had been true the conclusion would have been true as well. Consider, then an argument such as the following:

All toasters are items made of gold.
All items made of gold are time-travel devices.
Therefore, all toasters are time-travel devices.

Logically valid, but still false.

[Barkloud]

I made certain to say "likely", not "confirmed". However, I look at the $50 purchase price like this:

Regular digital expansion - $40
LvL 90 Boost - $60
-------------------------------
Total purchase - $100

$50 purchase for a $100 value. Sounds like a good sale if I ever saw one. The only people who would, or should, object, would be the group who never wanted the boost. Personally, I think they should offer a version without the boost for $29.

lol - Your comments are typically even across the board, but I think your sliiiightly starting to tilt with the $50 for a $100 comment.

The level 90 boost for $60 is incredibly out of whack. I know people will pay it, and it is all relative to your income. That said, I felt the level 90 boost should have been $40. I think they would have made a lot more money. I get why it is $60 though. I have changed factions and servers at the same time before.

I would like the $29 dollar suggestion.

[Deleted]

When I watched Alex Afrasiabi's famous video, I really felt that he and Blizzard are committed to no flying for Wod. They really believe they can make a world with no flight and that we enjoy it.

Yes , I know they are delusional .
And it doesn't matter if they "really belive" in something . It could be just http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking.

Wishful thinking is the formation of beliefs and making decisions according to what might be pleasing to imagine instead of by appealing to evidence, rationality, or reality. It is a product of resolving conflicts between belief and desire.

[Nayaga]

lol - Your comments are typically even across the board, but I think your sliiiightly starting to tilt with the $50 for a $100 comment.

The level 90 boost for $60 is incredibly out of whack. I know people will pay it, and it is all relative to your income. That said, I felt the level 90 boost should have been $40. I think they would have made a lot more money. I get why it is $60 though. I have changed factions and servers at the same time before.

I would like the $29 dollar suggestion.

Blizzard will charge whatever the market will bear.

[Real World]

This is just an opinion.

Many on both sides of the argument post with emotion.

I doubt many posters really understand what logic is. It's important to understand that an argument can be logical without necessarily being true. Consider, for example, the following:
•All women are brilliant.
•I am a woman.
•Therefore, I am brilliant.

Is this argument logical? Indeed, it is. The test for logic in this instance is not whether the statement is reasonable, but whether the argument follows the almost mathematical construction of the syllogism.

...

Here is another way I explained logic recently. It's been a very long time since my logic classes in college, but from what I remember, Logic is a set of mathematical rules to prove if a argument is valid, not if it is true or false.

The premises of an argument do not have actually to be true in order for the argument to be logically valid. An argument is valid if the premises and conclusion are related to each other in the right way so that if the premises were true, then the conclusion would have to be true as well. We can recognize in the above case that even if one of the premises is actually false, that if they had been true the conclusion would have been true as well. Consider, then an argument such as the following:

All toasters are items made of gold.
All items made of gold are time-travel devices.
Therefore, all toasters are time-travel devices.

Logically valid, but still false.

As for the top piece being my opinion, that is obvious. It is covered under "I am optimistic", meaning I personally am showing optimism in the hopes of. The only fact involved in that statement is the fact that I am optimistic. So I am uncertain why you chose to try and discredit something not worth discrediting since it was only an opinion to start with.

While I can see your side of the examples, they are little more than ad hominem. I get that you are passionate about flight. It is a part of your game play, and it is a key feature providing you speed, convenience, and freedom. I know. I love my flying mounts for the exact same reasons. However, as a rational person, I am willing to set my emotions aside, and examine the bigger picture. Here's what I see. I see Blizzard claiming the content will be compelling, and engaging. I see Blizzard claiming that FPs will be sped up, and streamlined, and other interesting means of travel will be added. I see them trying to bring the game back to what it was in TBC, when you had that epic experience before flying off into the sunset.

I know you are tired of fighting this fight, I think most people are. Some have walked away from this thread 50-100 pages ago, and have never looked back. So, from a non-emotional based, and rational point of view, I would like to see WoD, and see if Blizz can actually deliver on their guarantee. If they can't, we get flying back, and I suspect the future gambling with subs will never again grace an expansion. Again, this is just my speculation. I think everyone, including the anti-fliers understands this game was built on wallets. If enough wallets disappear, flying will comeback, and certain devs will "disappear".

[Nayaga]

Yes , I know they are delusional .
And it doesn't matter if they "really belive" in something . It could be just http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking.

They could be delusional, but unless they experience a massive subscription lose, the delusional of no fly will become the vision of WoD.

[Real World]

lol - Your comments are typically even across the board, but I think your sliiiightly starting to tilt with the $50 for a $100 comment.

The level 90 boost for $60 is incredibly out of whack. I know people will pay it, and it is all relative to your income. That said, I felt the level 90 boost should have been $40. I think they would have made a lot more money. I get why it is $60 though. I have changed factions and servers at the same time before.

I would like the $29 dollar suggestion.

There's no real "tilting" involved. As an outside observer, if I saw that WoD was $50, and came with a Boost, or I could buy it for $40, and later purchase a boost for $60, this means I've spent $100, when I could have just paid $50. There is no favoritism shown, just smart consumerism.

[Nayaga]

As for the top piece being my opinion, that is obvious. It is covered under "I am optimistic", meaning I personally am showing optimism in the hopes of. The only fact involved in that statement is the fact that I am optimistic. So I am uncertain why you chose to try and discredit something not worth discrediting since it was only an opinion to start with.

While I can see your side of the examples, they are little more than ad hominem. I get that you are passionate about flight. It is a part of your game play, and it is a key feature providing you speed, convenience, and freedom. I know. I love my flying mounts for the exact same reasons. However, as a rational person, I am willing to set my emotions aside, and examine the bigger picture. Here's what I see. I see Blizzard claiming the content will be compelling, and engaging. I see Blizzard claiming that FPs will be sped up, and streamlined, and other interesting means of travel will be added. I see them trying to bring the game back to what it was in TBC, when you had that epic experience before flying off into the sunset.

I know you are tired of fighting this fight, I think most people are. Some have walked away from this thread 50-100 pages ago, and have never looked back. So, from a non-emotional based, and rational point of view, I would like to see WoD, and see if Blizz can actually deliver on their guarantee. If they can't, we get flying back, and I suspect the future gambling with subs will never again grace an expansion. Again, this is just my speculation. I think everyone, including the anti-fliers understands this game was built on wallets. If enough wallets disappear, flying will comeback, and certain devs will "disappear".

If you claim to have "logic and reason" on your side, you need to understand what logic is. Just saying you use logic, does not mean you use it correctly. I've seen others claim to have "logic and reason" on their side, but rarely use logic at all.

My response was about logic, you misdirected the discussion by going on about what I feel about flight.

An ad hominem, short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. I did not reject your argument on an irrelevant fact. All I did was point out what "logic" is since you claim to have it on your side.

[Ordinator]

Personally, I think they should offer a version without the boost for $29.

Best thing I've heard yet in this thread. Im not a fan of skipping content and will never use a shameful paid for character.

[Nayaga]

Best thing I've heard yet in this thread. Im not a fan of skipping content and will never use a shameful paid for character.

Would you skip over content you have already experienced with 1 main and 5 alts? Do you really want to see it for a 7th time?