Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Nayaga]

I am personally not interested in personal opinions of what people find fun or not because that is covered over hundreds of pages in this thread. What I have discovered with the beta is that the TI set up didn't work out so Blizzard went back to their proven questing formula and even incorporated garrisons to integrate with such a leveling experience.

I'm guessing the leveling zones will be unlike TI and back to regular zones design. Personally I have really enjoyed SMV. I see nothing in the SMV zone design to indicate it was designed for no flying at max level. For example, the herbs locations are spread out all over the place. FP feel the same as any past expansion. Mobs in SMV are already irrelevant at level 92 with quests completed. Mobs still stun and knock you off mounts.

Basically, if Blizzard's goal was world immersion they failed on an epic scale. Phasing is still in zones making it feel empty because you are on a different part of the quest than other players. So many instances and teleports taking players out of the world. Ashran is a giant PVP island that is instanced. PVE/PVP queue system has been improved upon making it more enticing for players to use in WoD with greater rewards than MoP. Blizzard has also said that they will ensure that reaching level 100 is quicker than it was in MoP reaching 90...doesn't Blizzard see these problems?

I "feel" immersion while the zone is new, but all content gets boring and worn out over time, that's when I want flying.

[khalltusk]

mountain climbing, walking on paths, and beautiful details (how long is that going to really last), I am not talking flight while leveling I am talking flight at max level. Although I agree with those three points being neat it will not lost beyond the leveling content maybe 3 months.

As far as seeing people out in the world that was accomplished with flight, Battlefield Barrens, Golden Lotus, Shield Wall etc ... so that is a moot point.

Seeing people well Blizz has gimped that with all the zone phasing they have become so fond of.



Well said and hopefully either the rest of beta will be drastically different or Blizz will enable flight... I sincerely doubt either cause Blizz is bull headed and creatively bankrupt.

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So basically you are primarily a instance player, so the removal of flight would have minimal effect upon you.



I fear you may be correct.

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And everyone of them has been rebuted with no furthther explanation

See people in the world .. well they accomplished that with Shield Wall, Battlefield Barrens, and the Golden Lotus dailies and we could fly.

Walking paths, mountains and scenery - how long is that going last beyond the leveling experience, how long will it be fun or interesting at max level 3 months tops.

You are the only person(that is a regular on this board) that is anti flight that seems to have enough sense that you could rub two pennies together.

Your point I conceded to it with you it basically comes down to faith in Blizzard. You have it I don't. The problem arises though with posters coming from beta pretty much enforcing what i believe (granted only two zones but confidence isn't high)

Fairly minimal, things like gathering will most likely be slower to complete a circuit but i'm hopeful it won't be too bad. Other than that with flying removed I will AFK on the wind rider while I fly to what ever destination in Draenor I am headed to.

The only other thing it impacts is the sight seeing aspect of flying. Sometimes I liked to fly onto a mountain and just have my character sit up there smelting away with the mobile anvil thing. Kinda pretty to look at.

I do hope blizzard gets it right or if its bullshit that they soon see the error in their ways and change it back.

[shadowstep]

I am personally not interested in personal opinions of what people find fun or not because that is covered over hundreds of pages in this thread. What I have discovered with the beta is that the TI set up didn't work out so Blizzard went back to their proven questing formula and even incorporated garrisons to integrate with such a leveling experience.

The flight paths do not have logical efficiency just like live, the number of teleports needed to reach places has increased (compared to MoP ). The geomorphology of the terrain indeed is not friendly to ground mounts and creates situations where you have to go on a long winding meandering path that is not the most direct to reach across a zone. NPC's with stuns and and other CC are plentiful and the mob density is too high. The faction "cities" are now off the main continent (lulz) and the garrison is a personalized instance.

Basically, if Blizzard's goal was world immersion they failed on an epic scale. Phasing is still in zones making it feel empty because you are on a different part of the quest than other players. So many instances and teleports taking players out of the world. Ashran is a giant PVP island that is instanced. PVE/PVP queue system has been improved upon making it more enticing for players to use in WoD with greater rewards than MoP. Blizzard has also said that they will ensure that reaching level 100 is quicker than it was in MoP reaching 90...doesn't Blizzard see these problems?

Blizzard has spent a lot of time making the WoD continent but they have made a series of decisions that ensure the continent will be dead at level cap within one month. And restricting flying only exacerbates this problem with world immersion. Punishing players that explore the world with a flying mount is not a good idea IMVHO.

Good post, with good points from a guy that is in beta....

Im not surprised to see it ignored by those 2 guys that keep saying that "no flying is going to be the greatest thing ever" while keeping their fingers in their ears...

[Maneo]

Sure flying in convenient but there is nothing wrong with that either. It's not a hindrance to the game or game design. We know that from TBC and WoTLK sub numbers. IF it was hurting wow we would have seen it then. Shit story and content in the last 2 expansions hurt wow - not max level flying.

Like I said every anti flight persons talking point countered w/logic and reason. That you will receive no counters to because no counters exist. They will just ignore it and keep repeating the same comments that have already been countered at tedium.

The only talking point that you missed was "Have some faith in WoW they will make no flight fun and engaging" and honestly that just comes down to how much faith you have. I personally have none and w/what I have seen from WoD it pretty much enforces that.

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Good post, with good points from a guy that is in beta....

Im not surprised to see it ignored by those 2 guys that keep saying that "no flying is going to be the greatest thing ever" while keeping their fingers in their ears...

Would you expect any less... the compelling argument we will get from them will be ... "Nuh huh"

What to you really expect form Blizz fan boys or the PVP RAWR folks..

[quras]

Like I said every anti flight persons talking point countered w/logic and reason. That you will receive no counters to because no counters exist. They will just ignore it and keep repeating the same comments that have already been countered at tedium.

Pretty much. I can see no enjoyment in a game that bases itself on inconveniencing players by removing a 7+ year old end game mechanic that they are still selling to this day and in an expansion they want you to pay more for.

Even blizzard own reason to making this change is laughable given it can all be rendered moot though the most mediocre of quest/objective design. Blizzard has simply lost the will to be "the better designers".

I have yet to see a solid reason for removing flight at max level. It's all about skipping mobs or convenience and how bad that seems to be yet abilities to skip things are everywhere is wow and if you are going to argue convenience you got a shit ton of things that needs to go besides flying at max level.

Then again, we know flying is not the real issue here because we have had good content with flying in it and the game prospered because it was also in combination with good story and content. That is not the case for here and removing flying is not helping this aged game especially when we have had flying at max level longer than not having it.

All in all your right.

The only talking point that you missed was "Have some faith in WoW they will make no flight fun and engaging" and honestly that just comes down to how much faith you have. I personally have none and w/what I have seen from WoD it pretty much enforces that.

Yea that one didn't cross my mind. Faith is not something I would ever put in a for-profit company especially a company that can produce a dick move as blizzard has with removing flying and still selling flying mounts in a cash shop and one particularly based on the very expansion they want to you to buy (but not "F"ing fly in that content). Thats a POS move and if I was one to have faith in a company, it would be gone now.

I'm watching and playing WoD beta very closely. It's an average expansion so far. Nothing particularly amazing and in general its much of the same old stuff so far in the 2 zones.

At max level, no flying is not going to make for fun or interesting times. It's not producing WPVP or making gamers more social or making the world feel full. If WoD continues on this path, the largest part of gamers who never see this kind of information gets to max levela nd finds no chance in them flying after all they have done to get those mounts, it will put a stain on this game. If blizzard implements TI style content thinking it was more than a novelty the first and second time we got it, it's only going to hurt this game even more.

There are more problems with WoD than just no flying but that one is going to affect everyone who has ever played this game and it's not affecting them in a good way.

[Maneo]

There are more problems with WoD than just no flying but that one is going to affect everyone who has ever played this game and it's not affecting them in a good way.

Honestly I am beginning to wonder if some internal problems arose and Activision said they wanted the expac out regardless. Especially with all the other things going on in WoD the loss of the cool capital cities and other things.

To be fair though it won't affect the people that already play world of que craft it will just encourage everyone else to play that way....

Next they are just going to turn it into a lobby game... where you just sit in a pretty room and BS with people until your que pops.

[Ordinator]

Next they are just going to turn it into a lobby game... where you just sit in a pretty room and BS with people until your que pops.

I guess its just how you look at it. No flying gives me a million more times incentive to leave the capitol and be in the world. Sure theres people like you who will want to stay in the capital and pout, but the people like me will be populating the world. Where as before the world population was way up in the sky where nobody can see them.

[Mafic]

I guess its just how you look at it. No flying gives me a million more times incentive to leave the capitol and be in the world. Sure theres people like you who will want to stay in the capital and pout, but the people like me will be populating the world. Where as before the world population was way up in the sky where nobody can see them.

To leave the capitol you have to leave Ashran to reach the main land (e.g your garrison) and from your garrison then you will be able to reach the zone of your choice. You are operating under the paradigm of MoP but WoD is nothing like MoP where the faction cities in MoP are actually on the continent.

[Flutterguy]

As expected, getting around is a pain in the ass and so far the exploration rewards are minimal.

[Mafic]

We will have to see what they will do with the other zones but right now the starting zones are pretty ordinary from what we are accustomed to from previous expansions.

[Deleted]

Like I said every anti flight persons talking point countered w/logic and reason. That you will receive no counters to because no counters exist. They will just ignore it and keep repeating the same comments that have already been countered at tedium.

The only talking point that you missed was "Have some faith in WoW they will make no flight fun and engaging" and honestly that just comes down to how much faith you have. I personally have none and w/what I have seen from WoD it pretty much enforces that.

It's interesting the part you picked out of his statement in bold. The claim that 'Shit story and content in the last 2 expansions hurt wow.' and then declared that such statements are a counter utilising logic and reason, clearly ignoring the reality that 'shit story and content' as he so eloquently puts it, is such a personal thing that it really does not lend itself to being exalted and put on a pedestal as the awe inspiring, counter stomping claim that it is. I do not deny that he may very well not have liked the story or content from the last few expansions, but to place his own opinions as to what counts as 'shit story/content' as the primary reason as to why subscriptions have taken a downturn is highly comical.

How can such a subjective reason be lauded as 'reason and logic', when you cast away arguments such as 'immersion' and laugh at it as being so personal that it is not even worth bringing up in a conversation then praise yourselves as kings of logic? I'm fairly sure a multitude of people enjoyed the story of MoP, personally I enjoyed it more than TBC. I'm certain many people have adored the improvements made to the game since, such as pet battles and transmogs. I'm even certain that the raids have been praised in being far more complex than vanilla/TBC, which raiders love. I'm not saying that this is the the case and the sentence was incorrect, all I am stating about it that it was simply personal opinion picked out by you as being a marvel of logical thought. The great irony being the first two sentences of his statement were perfectly logical, but you chose to pick out the part which reeked of opinion, which did catch the eye and did serve to seem like a bit of friendly fire.

[cabyio]

They did this very well with flight enabled Battlefield Barrens comes to mind, people grouping up working together (sometimes even Horde and Alliance), heck even some WPVP happened (on my PVE server even)... but the way anti flight people talk that is impossible because we could fly.

Hell I saw a ton of people during the Golden Lotus dailies to...

So same question to you.

How is the removal of flight making a better game of WoW (in its current state) for PVE players (over 50% of the player base)?

Or is Blizzard just saying Fuck you to the majority of their players?

Second question.

When the removal of flight doesn't improve the game or the community in WoW, will all you anti flight people come back to this tread and admit you were wrong?

Me personally I will try my free week in WoD (when they give it) and pay attention to the sub numbers, if the sub numbers don't have a dramatic decline.. and I have fun during my week trial ... I will admit I was wrong...

I really feel like the anti flight people are in the majority a bunch of PEEEVEEEPEEEE rawr types that, couldn't give two shits to how the removal of flight negatively affects the PVE side of the game.

I am not one of the people saying taking away flight is a good thing. I actually don't have an opinion one way or the other so I am willing to just see how it turns out. I do however think that all you pro flyers that are like, "OMG Sky is falling, ahhhhhhh, Wow is dead...." are just stupid as shit. Reason 1: Even if it turns out to be a negative for most players it is not enough to make most people quit. Reason 2: If it does turn out to be a negative to most players then it will most likely be brought back after 6.0. So basically I just sit back and laugh at the wailing and gnashing of teeth. Overreaction much?

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I am guessing by the time it is all said and done approx 2 million subs lost.

God you really have an issue with assuming everyone has your twisted outlook. Most people won't care enough to quit. Most likely it will be brought back after 6.0 anyway. So basically all your tears and whining are wasted, except for my entertainment value.

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Also ... hidden places, areas that can not easily be reached how long will that be compelling .. a month maybe two after max level.. and that is being generous.

Right... which is why they said flying might come back after 6.0. If it turns out everyone hates it and it adds nothing... sweet, flying comes back. It it turns out that most people like it without flying and blizzard likes the results then flying will stay out. Seems like a pretty straight forward empirical issue. Zero reason to get a stick up your ass.

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You are wrong. You can't force me to entertain you. There are many ways to play this game, your way is not the only way. Get over yourself.

True but blizzard wishes for more player interaction as well so I guess I have the devs on my side. So my way is the dev way and your way is wrong (and anti-social).


Infracted for flaming.

[Deleted]

I am not one of the people saying taking away flight is a good thing. I actually don't have an opinion one way or the other so I am willing to just see how it turns out. I do however think that all you pro flyers that are like, "OMG Sky is falling, ahhhhhhh, Wow is dead...." are just stupid as shit. Reason 1: Even if it turns out to be a negative for most players it is not enough to make most people quit. Reason 2: If it does turn out to be a negative to most players then it will most likely be brought back after 6.0. So basically I just sit back and laugh at the wailing and gnashing of teeth. Overreaction much?.

Im actually anti-flying but this is no overraction. Most people were/ probably still are against micro transactions - they're still here. Most people don't like dumbing down and homogenization - it still happens. So when the sky seems to be falling it usually does fall and hard.

But in this case, flying will mostly be brought back in 6.1 even if most people like it better without it because Blizzard simply can't stick to their choices. They couldn't keep the instances hard in Cata either. Basically if it's anything but overly convenient and effortless, they're gonna make it easier.

[cabyio]

I "feel" immersion while the zone is new, but all content gets boring and worn out over time, that's when I want flying.

And you very well may get it back if it turns out to be bad choice overall, so why all the hemming and hawing.

[Stacie]

And you very well may get it back if it turns out to be bad choice overall, so why all the hemming and hawing.

We can only pray at the moment it seams like they have put allot of effort into not allowing people to fly. Can't see them wanting to change there ideas to easy this time. Big shame as all the content would look lovely from the sky that i have seen so far. Using some of my rare flying mounts on the ground really feels wrong as well the cloud serps, ashes mount and anything with wings always out. It's just odd i think most playing beta will understand what i mean.

[Nayaga]

It's interesting the part you picked out of his statement in bold. The claim that 'Shit story and content in the last 2 expansions hurt wow.' and then declared that such statements are a counter utilising logic and reason, clearly ignoring the reality that 'shit story and content' as he so eloquently puts it, is such a personal thing that it really does not lend itself to being exalted and put on a pedestal as the awe inspiring, counter stomping claim that it is. I do not deny that he may very well not have liked the story or content from the last few expansions, but to place his own opinions as to what counts as 'shit story/content' as the primary reason as to why subscriptions have taken a downturn is highly comical.

How can such a subjective reason be lauded as 'reason and logic', when you cast away arguments such as 'immersion' and laugh at it as being so personal that it is not even worth bringing up in a conversation then praise yourselves as kings of logic? I'm fairly sure a multitude of people enjoyed the story of MoP, personally I enjoyed it more than TBC. I'm certain many people have adored the improvements made to the game since, such as pet battles and transmogs. I'm even certain that the raids have been praised in being far more complex than vanilla/TBC, which raiders love. I'm not saying that this is the the case and the sentence was incorrect, all I am stating about it that it was simply personal opinion picked out by you as being a marvel of logical thought. The great irony being the first two sentences of his statement were perfectly logical, but you chose to pick out the part which reeked of opinion, which did catch the eye and did serve to seem like a bit of friendly fire.

If you are looking for "reason and logic", you are in the wrong place.

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And you very well may get it back if it turns out to be bad choice overall, so why all the hemming and hawing.

I'm giving my opinion, same as you. Why are you writing anti-flying posts?

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True but blizzard wishes for more player interaction as well so I guess I have the devs on my side. So my way is the dev way and your way is wrong (and anti-social).

I'm not anti social at all, nor is the way I play the game.

I must have missed the post from Blizzard that said they were removing flying to increase player interaction. Can you post that link?

[Maneo]

It's interesting the part you picked out of his statement in bold. The claim that 'Shit story and content in the last 2 expansions hurt wow.' and then declared that such statements are a counter utilising logic and reason, clearly ignoring the reality that 'shit story and content' as he so eloquently puts it, is such a personal thing that it really does not lend itself to being exalted and put on a pedestal as the awe inspiring, counter stomping claim that it is. I do not deny that he may very well not have liked the story or content from the last few expansions, but to place his own opinions as to what counts as 'shit story/content' as the primary reason as to why subscriptions have taken a downturn is highly comical.

How can such a subjective reason be lauded as 'reason and logic', when you cast away arguments such as 'immersion' and laugh at it as being so personal that it is not even worth bringing up in a conversation then praise yourselves as kings of logic? I'm fairly sure a multitude of people enjoyed the story of MoP, personally I enjoyed it more than TBC. I'm certain many people have adored the improvements made to the game since, such as pet battles and transmogs. I'm even certain that the raids have been praised in being far more complex than vanilla/TBC, which raiders love. I'm not saying that this is the the case and the sentence was incorrect, all I am stating about it that it was simply personal opinion picked out by you as being a marvel of logical thought. The great irony being the first two sentences of his statement were perfectly logical, but you chose to pick out the part which reeked of opinion, which did catch the eye and did serve to seem like a bit of friendly fire.

You have a point I did bold a statement that was pure opinion (one that I agree with but opinion none the less), that being said the majority of the pose was pretty damn logical.

I am not one of the people saying taking away flight is a good thing. I actually don't have an opinion one way or the other so I am willing to just see how it turns out. I do however think that all you pro flyers that are like, "OMG Sky is falling, ahhhhhhh, Wow is dead...." are just stupid as shit. Reason 1: Even if it turns out to be a negative for most players it is not enough to make most people quit. Reason 2: If it does turn out to be a negative to most players then it will most likely be brought back after 6.0. So basically I just sit back and laugh at the wailing and gnashing of teeth. Overreaction much?

Over reaction not at all, this is something that drasticly effects all PVE content that isn't' instanced.

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God you really have an issue with assuming everyone has your twisted outlook. Most people won't care enough to quit. Most likely it will be brought back after 6.0 anyway. So basically all your tears and whining are wasted, except for my entertainment value.

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To be fair I did say guessing aka my opinion. Cata cost them a ton of subs many because of the heroics (hence why they were changed). Saying that the removal of flight that effects every player will cost them a equal loss in subs isn't much of a stretch of the imagination.

Right... which is why they said flying might come back after 6.0. If it turns out everyone hates it and it adds nothing... sweet, flying comes back. It it turns out that most people like it without flying and blizzard likes the results then flying will stay out. Seems like a pretty straight forward empirical issue. Zero reason to get a stick up your ass.

Actually the answer was we don't know. Doesn't really inspire confidence when a developer says that. Basically flying is gone until they lose enough subs to effect the bottom line and even Blizz doesn't know how bad it is going to be ...

True but blizzard wishes for more player interaction as well so I guess I have the devs on my side. So my way is the dev way and your way is wrong (and anti-social).

Battlefield Barrens, Sheild Wall, and Golden Lotus had tons of player interaction.... and I know it is hard for anti flight people to believe.. but it happened and OMG we could fly.

[Ordinator]

To leave the capitol you have to leave Ashran to reach the main land (e.g your garrison) and from your garrison then you will be able to reach the zone of your choice. You are operating under the paradigm of MoP but WoD is nothing like MoP where the faction cities in MoP are actually on the continent.

Or you could just take a FP to the zone of your choice.. I don't see where you're going with this post. Has nothing to do with the point I made.

[Maneo]

Lastly I know i have said it before but I know 10 people personally who have quit the game because of the removal of flight, and now at least 9 others who will be quitting.
if flight isn't returned in 6.1

My buddy who is in Beta says unless max level is drastically different then the beginning two zones he will also be leaving if it isn't returned come 6.1.

You are right about one thing the majority of the people on the message boards and hanging out in the capital cities don't care one way or another.

What is going to be interesting is when the silent majority reach max level and find out no flight to be had. Think the forums are bad now just wait.

[Barkloud]

I guess its just how you look at it. No flying gives me a million more times incentive to leave the capitol and be in the world. Sure theres people like you who will want to stay in the capital and pout, but the people like me will be populating the world. Where as before the world population was way up in the sky where nobody can see them.

I guess the question is do you really think there are more people like you than there are like me?

I am betting there are 10 or 20 maybe even 30 casual players to every one of you.

Flying will be back as soon as people start dinging 100.

Blizzard has proven time and time again to do two things:

1. Implement poor gaming decisions.

2. immediately back down when the subs start dropping.

Subs are going to plummet when people discover they need to spend 50% of their gametime traveling back and forth to quest objectives.

Because running when you used to be able to fly is FUN like taking the bus is when you used to have a car.