Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Selah]

I love the idea of no flying as long as there are a lot of dynamic world events to participate in,
All sorts of neat little collectible shiniest hidden throughout the world, and a few puzzles and challenges to find. Oh, world bosses and what not too. I'd love to see rifts similar to Rift start to spawn up across the world too. I feel the no flying concept can be a huge success with enough open world content to compliment it.

[Kazgrel]

I love the idea of no flying as long as there are a lot of dynamic world events to participate in,
All sorts of neat little collectible shiniest hidden throughout the world, and a few puzzles and challenges to find. Oh, world bosses and what not too. I'd love to see rifts similar to Rift start to spawn up across the world too. I feel the no flying concept can be a huge success with enough open world content to compliment it.

There's a microcosm of what you described in game already, called Timeless Isle.

Wiping one's arse with a cheese grater would be equally as fun as a "Timeless Continent".

[Maneo]

I love the idea of no flying as long as there are a lot of dynamic world events to participate in,
All sorts of neat little collectible shiniest hidden throughout the world, and a few puzzles and challenges to find. Oh, world bosses and what not too. I'd love to see rifts similar to Rift start to spawn up across the world too. I feel the no flying concept can be a huge success with enough open world content to compliment it.

What I put in bold is the real kicker.

how long will the content last we are given a month, maybe two... This would work if Blizz released content in a timely manner but as yet no indication of this has been made. Beyond Blizz saying they would "Like" to release more content ... well I would like to fly at max level and that isn't happening in WoD.

That is why I conceded and left the boards for a time (back when it was flying at 6.1 cause I was pissed about that to) and admitted that if the open world was designed in such a manner it would be fine and MAYBE (notice the big maybe cause I was only a fan of TI for about a month) even be fun.

Now Blizzard is balls deep in this no flying thing and frankly they are to bull headed to concede... They even know this is a bad idea and is going to cost them subs they just don't know how many.

Hence the answer when asked " Is flying ever going to happen in WoD" ... the answer was "We don't know"

I don't recall I don't know ever being a answer about a feature in a game they were removing adding what ever, I haven't heard I don't know talking about reforging being removed, I haven't heard We don't know when the talent system was revamped, or countless others... this is the first time I recall Blizz saying I don't know about a feature they were going to change.

That right there tells me they know this is going to bite them in the ass they just don't know how hard.

[quras]

To be fair the latest mount they are selling (although it can fly) doesn't look like a flying mount. I think this is intentional to test the waters if you will as to how well ground mounts are going to sell...

Maybe but it is based on the very expansion they plan to remove flying from current content. It's a dick to be honest.

I just think WoW has become creatively bank rupt, nothing in this expansion in innovative or creative. We get Garrisons (player housing) the Wildstar and other games do infinitely better, then we get minions that SWTOR did years ago....

Honestly Blizz is taking away the only original idea they ever had in player flight ... and even that could be debated if it was original or not City of heroes had flight <shrug>

Agree, I'm finding garrison to be very similar to SWTOR companions, farmville upkeep and SIMS management. New yes, all that interesting, not so much. It's OK content, interesting at first but easily pushed off to the side..

I have yet to see someone say what it is about this expansion that is creative or innovative (and I have asked several times)

I have also asked how this is going to improve gameplay for the PVE players (over 50% of the player base) while i have gotten a couple answers (that I countered and am still waiting for a reply back) for the most part nothing.

1. Seeing players in the world this was accomplished with flight see battlefield barrens, Shield Wall, and Golden Lotus dailies as the most recent examples

2. The beauty and exploration - this talking point runs moot after a couple of months

3. This allows Blizz to do more creative and innovative things - That they haven't done per the people playing beta.

4. Jumping puzzles - well one they can be put indoors (like on IoT) and two I believe (and supported by many) that the jumping puzzles in WoW just are not fun ... the game isn't designed for platforming... you jump you are going to land in the exact same spot no matter how much you twist and turn.

Pretty much. No flying at max level is not bringing amazing game play or benefits to the game at this point in the games life cycle. It's to well ingrained.

TI/IoT was never interesting enough to warrant it everywhere at max level just so blizzard can remove flying in WoD content. Even blizzard own reason for removing it could be solved with just some half-assed attempts at creative design and development for questing. skipping random trash mobs is no big deal cause thats going to happen anyway by everyone. You will only kill trash pack #419845392 so many times before you skip it and that will be about the time you reach max level. After that, there not needed. Hell, at level 92 I don't need to worry about them now. There worthless and add nothing to the game but a time waster.

I love the idea of no flying as long as there are a lot of dynamic world events to participate in,
All sorts of neat little collectible shiniest hidden throughout the world, and a few puzzles and challenges to find. Oh, world bosses and what not too. I'd love to see rifts similar to Rift start to spawn up across the world too. I feel the no flying concept can be a huge success with enough open world content to compliment it.

and yet in rift you can almost instantly teleport to where the action is. No real hindrance to travel and while teleporting is fine, I'm quite fond of flying at max level. Any and all what you said could be accomplished with with max level flying except maybe jumping puzzles and there could be another TI style area for jumping puzzles and other things. I know some like it, it doesn't need to be removed but it doesn't need to be everywhere as max level content either.

Having TI style content everywhere, all the time at max level, I got to down vote that. It was merely mediocre when it was released for free in a patch and not worth $50 for an entire expansions outside world as max level content. While we have not seen those end game zones yet, what else could they be if blizzard is removing flying? What else could be if blizzard wants to limit daily quest areas but still consume players time other than TI style content, nearly everywhere in max level zones? I can't come up with anything else and removing flying to have that kind of content is a no go for me.

[TheEaterofSouls]

I'm excited for "no-flying". Bllizzard finally decided that it was making the games world feel empty, and trivializing pvp. I like how they are transforming all mounts to ground enabled. It'll be pretty cool sliding across the ground on a pheonix.

Flying was a serious issue that prevented the devs from doing certain things with the environment. And causing its own set of issues

[Maneo]

There's a microcosm of what you described in game already, called Timeless Isle.

Wiping one's arse with a cheese grater would be equally as fun as a "Timeless Continent".

Some people actually liked TI, I tihnk it was the minority and the majority was just out there cause it was a giant loot pinata ... but some people did actually like it

- - - Updated - - -

I'm excited for "no-flying". Bllizzard finally decided that it was making the games world feel empty, and trivializing pvp. I like how they are transforming all mounts to ground enabled. It'll be pretty cool sliding across the ground on a pheonix.

The world didn't feel empty during battlefield barrens, or Shield Wall, or Golden Lotus just for recent examples.

As far as Trivializing pvp how is that good for those of us on PVE servers (over 50% of the player base btw)

I am willing to bet you are in the minority about thinking flying mounts scooting around on the ground is cool.... Actually you are the only person I have EVER heard say that and I have been here for sometime.

[TheEaterofSouls]

The world didn't feel empty during battlefield barrens, or Shield Wall, or Golden Lotus just for recent examples.

I disagree 100%. The world felt pretty devoid of other players. People would just suddenly pop out and no sense of large scale adventure was there to be seen. The best counter argument is the Isle Of Thunder, which was full of players and felt really epic. TI was ok, but not as good imo.

[Dormie]

You have that backwards. Flight paths are skipping the game, you fly over content, unable to interact with anything. On flight paths you are handcuffed to a forced AFK. With personal flying mounts, if anything of interests pops up, you can swoop down and interact with the world.

Flight path = forced AFK, no interaction with world
Personal flying mounts = interact with the world any time, any where you want.

No you missed my point. On flying mounts you only interact with Your starting area and your destination. With Flight Paths, you have to first travel to the Flightmaster, sit on the flight(which is basically a delayed portal), land at the Flightmaster and then travel to your destination. Flight mounts are you interacting
2 individual points, where Flightpaths only transfer you a certain predetermined distance. Like this...

Red is Mounts Blue is flightpath. That's a lot more space for things to happen and to be out in the world.

I sure as hell wont ever be arguing for adding in 7+ mins of travel time if thats what your getting at. In a theme park game, lets not waste the gamers time making them wait longer to get to the "fun" parts of the theme park.

But you can't just decide what is fun to you and subtract the rest of the game.

[quras]

I'm excited for "no-flying". Bllizzard finally decided that it was making the games world feel empty, and trivializing pvp. I like how they are transforming all mounts to ground enabled. It'll be pretty cool sliding across the ground on a pheonix.

My gyrocopter disagrees. SO does my mimrons head. I got a number of mounts that make me disagree with you.

As far as hurting PVP. blizzard did that when they designed pvp out of the game and into instances. Until there are equal rewards for WPVP it wont even make a small return. Until blizzard can cure win trading and kill trading there will be no rewards added. Flying didn't cause that particular problem. Blizzard designed it into instances with better rewards than just saying, "I killed you scrub!"

Flying was a serious issue that prevented the devs from doing certain things with the environment. And causing its own set of issues

If flying was indeed a serious issue, TBC and WoTLK would never have reached 12+ million subs. No matter the reason for staying or leaving wow during those times, it would never have been as successful if flying was some detriment to the game.

Poor design and development of content caused the problems you're talking about, not flying. Burned out designers with a loss of creativity caused the problems your talking about, not flying and especially not at max level.

-------------------------------

SNIP....


But you can't just decide what is fun to you and subtract the rest of the game.

You can bet your ass I can. I do not do archeology, ever. It is not fun. It's not interesting and it's not something I will ever do unless blizzard somehow was to make it a requirement.

I skip all kinds of worthless crap when it's no longer fun be it mobs, entire world areas or even added content. Unless it is somehow required, if it's not fun or entertaining, I skip right over that worthless junk.

I do what I find fun. I skip what I do not enjoy. I do not enjoy added time to travel because blizzard says it's fun. It is not. Removing flying at max level is not fun so I don't support it.

I've played long enough to know this and no amount of added travel time will ever be enjoyable. It' wasn't fun running to level 40, it wasn't fun taking flight paths - ever but travel became pretty fun when I could do it myself.

[Belisaurio]

626 pages and some people have problems to know that a 10 years system has more interaction with the world than flying mounts!!
Brandon, gool luck with your graphic.

If flying was indeed a serious issue, TBC and WoTLK would never have reached 12+ million subs. No matter the reason for staying or leaving wow during those times, it would never have been as successful if flying was some detriment to the game.

Poor design and development of content caused the problems you're talking about, not flying. Burned out designers with a loss of creativity caused the problems your talking about, not flying and especially not at max level.

Of course not.
These has been explained in other posts.

P.D: Other (important) things are what Blizzard is doing to the game to try to take a new route than what we had for the last 4 expansions, that's another point (and should be the main discusion btw).

[Nayaga]

To be fair the latest mount they are selling (although it can fly) doesn't look like a flying mount. I think this is intentional to test the waters if you will as to how well ground mounts are going to sell...

I just think WoW has become creatively bank rupt, nothing in this expansion in innovative or creative. We get Garrisons (player housing) the Wildstar and other games do infinitely better, then we get minions that SWTOR did years ago....

Honestly Blizz is taking away the only original idea they ever had in player flight ... and even that could be debated if it was original or not City of heroes had flight <shrug>

I have yet to see someone say what it is about this expansion that is creative or innovative (and I have asked several times)

I have also asked how this is going to improve gameplay for the PVE players (over 50% of the player base) while i have gotten a couple answers (that I countered and am still waiting for a reply back) for the most part nothing.

1. Seeing players in the world this was accomplished with flight see battlefield barrens, Shield Wall, and Golden Lotus dailies as the most recent examples

2. The beauty and exploration - this talking point runs moot after a couple of months

3. This allows Blizz to do more creative and innovative things - That they haven't done per the people playing beta.

4. Jumping puzzles - well one they can be put indoors (like on IoT) and two I believe (and supported by many) that the jumping puzzles in WoW just are not fun ... the game isn't designed for platforming... you jump you are going to land in the exact same spot no matter how much you twist and turn.

I'm a strong pro-flyer. I also think SMV was a blast. Will I return to SMV at max leveling without flying? Nope.

- - - Updated - - -

No you missed my point. On flying mounts you only interact with Your starting area and your destination. With Flight Paths, you have to first travel to the Flightmaster, sit on the flight(which is basically a delayed portal), land at the Flightmaster and then travel to your destination. Flight mounts are you interacting
2 individual points, where Flightpaths only transfer you a certain predetermined distance. Like this...

Red is Mounts Blue is flightpath. That's a lot more space for things to happen and to be out in the world.


But you can't just decide what is fun to you and subtract the rest of the game.

You description of interactive travel is slogging through low level mobs that provide no risk, no challenge and little reward. No thanks.

[CheeseSandwich]

many are arguing it is more like this...

[Dormie]

I'm a strong pro-flyer. I also think SMV was a blast. Will I return to SMV at max leveling without flying? Nope.

- - - Updated - - -



You description of interactive travel is slogging through low level mobs that provide no risk, no challenge and little reward. No thanks.

Not everything is about being challenged and rewarded.

[Nayaga]

You can bet your ass I can. I do not do archeology, ever. It is not fun. It's not interesting and it's not something I will ever do unless blizzard somehow was to make it a requirement.

I skip all kinds of worthless crap when it's no longer fun be it mobs, entire world areas or even added content. Unless it is somehow required, if it's not fun or entertaining, I skip right over that worthless junk.

I do what I find fun. I skip what I do not enjoy. I do not enjoy added time to travel because blizzard says it's fun. It is not. Removing flying at max level is not fun so I don't support it.

I've played long enough to know this and no amount of added travel time will ever be enjoyable. It' wasn't fun running to level 40, it wasn't fun taking flight paths - ever but travel became pretty fun when I could do it myself.

This is beyond their comprehension, myself and many others have tried to explain this to them and have failed. You can't fix stupid.

- - - Updated - - -

Not everything is about being challenged and rewarded.

I play the game for fun and skip the parts that are not fun. It is a game, it's for fun!

[Belisaurio]

You description of interactive travel is slogging through low level mobs that provide no risk, no challenge and little reward. No thanks

I'm with you!! Blizzard needs to put a lot more elite lvl 101 mobs in all zones. Nobody (even the lvls 90 in the starting zones) should be save!!! Any profession node should be the reward!!!
Sorry joke XD

Calm down, I don't thing that going from [flying] to [no-flying full of mobs, challening and rewards] can't be done at this moment. Remember that people are not prepared for big modifications (remember Cata early difficult, wipe fest and everybody killed Arthas...the skills of players were just....meh, and they found a brick wall in Cata).
And we are going to recieve flying in 6.1, so the first "big test" it's an expansion without flying mounts (the first small test I believe it was the TI I believe), wait for later to see what they are going to do...

Btw, wait to see the final product. Lot of people are complaining, but nobody played the real max-level game.

[pallyopness]

This is beyond their comprehension, myself and many others have tried to explain this to them and have failed. You can't fix stupid.

- - - Updated - - -

I play the game for fun and skip the parts that are not fun. It is a game, it's for fun!

You must ask yourself this question..."Am I truly having fun in a game that I bitch about constantly?"

[bryroo]

Not everything is about being challenged and rewarded.

That's right. Sometimes you just need to slow the players down so the devs don't have to work as hard.

[Anzaman]

And if it's more like this instead (pink route)?

[Nayaga]

You must ask yourself this question..."Am I truly having fun in a game that I bitch about constantly?"

I'm not bitching constantly, but I am offering feedback. Like I said many times, SMV in beta is a blast!

[Deleted]

And if it's more like this instead (pink route)?

I think your pink version is more accurate. That said, I still prefer that far more to the go afk for X minutes and be forced to fly past all those interesting things. Because forced boring travel with no possibility of reaching that interesting content without backtracking through a sea of crap for 10 minutes is so fun!

Edit: Alternatively, you could run from the beginning instead of flying. In that case, it would take you what, 3x as long to get it done, with no added benefit. "Wanna join a dungeon?", "Sure, give me 10 minutes" vs. "Sure, give me 30 minutes". Or perhaps 20 vs 60 minutes, or 30 vs 90 minutes. No flying is so good for this game!

Edit2: And before anyone says "Omg exploration on the ground is fun, stfu", please let me remind you that that is only valid the first time around. The second time you know exactly where everything is, and nothing surprises you any longer, and the "magic" of the expansion is gone. Perspective matters.