1. #14901
    Quote Originally Posted by Nayaga View Post
    There are two ways to deal with content droughts:

    One is to slow content by increasing drudgery and tedious activity.

    Two is to create more content given that Blizzard takes in a Billion dollars a year and can easily afford to do it.

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    Different people value different aspects of the game in different ways. To you it's a mountain out of a mole hill, to others it's not. No reason to swear at and insult people just because they think differently.

    There is room in this game for many types of game play.

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    Not sure if you are aware of this, but this is a fan site for the game called "World of Warcraft". This section of the forum is setup for the discussion of "Warlords of Draenor" a future expansion of World of Warcraft. Users of this forum come here to discuss the different aspects of "Warlords of Draenor", many times we have difference of opinions. If you want to participate in the discussion, please feel free. No reason to tell us to shut-up just because you disagree with us, because this forum is about discussions, not for us to shut-up.
    Here's a suggestion:

    Go make the Sun colder.

    Can't, can you? You can discuss it all you want, and waste your life away sitting in front of a computer discussing how how the Sun is, and how you'd like it to be colder, and yet, nothing will ever change.

    Here's the clue you missed, sport: this is exactly the same thing. It's been a week since you posted this, and nothing's changed. Why not? Because all the discussion in the world won't make it happen if the people in charge (Blizzard) don't want it to happen. Just like trying to make the Sun colder. So while you've wasted a week stuck on this discussion forum, things that actually matter have happened, and you've...

    Missed them.

    How does that feel?
    Feel like you have a target on your back around here?

    Knowing this place, you probably do.

  2. #14902
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    Sweet, you argue like a Creationist. Constantly moving the goalposts and ignoring or denying direct answers to your questions. Continue with your denial as conversing with you is like talking to a pull-string doll.
    I am not really arguing, because I am right. I am trying to keep you honest in your hyperbole.

    You keep thinking somebody who invests time is rewarded accordingly, and I will tell you that what you accomplish is far more important than time spent. I have moved goalposts, it wasn't my failed premise to begin with.

  3. #14903
    Quote Originally Posted by Prothall View Post
    Here's a suggestion:

    Go make the Sun colder.

    Can't, can you? You can discuss it all you want, and waste your life away sitting in front of a computer discussing how how the Sun is, and how you'd like it to be colder, and yet, nothing will ever change.

    Here's the clue you missed, sport: this is exactly the same thing. It's been a week since you posted this, and nothing's changed. Why not? Because all the discussion in the world won't make it happen if the people in charge (Blizzard) don't want it to happen. Just like trying to make the Sun colder. So while you've wasted a week stuck on this discussion forum, things that actually matter have happened, and you've...

    Missed them.

    How does that feel?
    Blizzard often change their mind based on discussion feedback. See the Alliance chopper being sold in game as the latest example.

    It's because of the continued discussion on this topic on here and other forums, that Blizz recently softened their language towards flight coming back at 6.1.

    It also really isn't like the sun, because I don't pay the sun to keep me warm, I can choose to go use a different sun to keep me warm or cool if I want, and it is in that sun's interest to keep me getting my warmth off it.
    "These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "

  4. #14904
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    Blizzard often change their mind based on discussion feedback. See the Alliance chopper being sold in game as the latest example.

    It's because of the continued discussion on this topic on here and other forums, that Blizz recently softened their language towards flight coming back at 6.1.

    It also really isn't like the sun, because I don't pay the sun to keep me warm, I can choose to go use a different sun to keep me warm or cool if I want, and it is in that sun's interest to keep me getting my warmth off it.
    I'm pretty sure they haven't, since as they said at the start they just don't know. Why is it so hard to understand? They want to see how it goes, which is fair enough. Comparing this to a silly chopper is also no where near similar thing, it was pretty clear since the begging that it was going to be done. They never actually said there won't be Alliance chopper, they just said Horde will get their for free. As for the flying it was actually made pretty clear by Lore 2 days ago that they still do not know. Discussing this topic is like an endless triangle.

  5. #14905
    Quote Originally Posted by manswtor View Post
    I'm pretty sure they haven't, since as they said at the start they just don't know. Why is it so hard to understand? They want to see how it goes, which is fair enough. Comparing this to a silly chopper is also no where near similar thing, it was pretty clear since the begging that it was going to be done. They never actually said there won't be Alliance chopper, they just said Horde will get their for free. As for the flying it was actually made pretty clear by Lore 2 days ago that they still do not know. Discussing this topic is like an endless triangle.
    Yeah, do you not think that part of seeing how it goes is listening to player feedback? Or do you think that seeing how it goes involves waiting to see how many people unsub and running the risk of them never returning?

  6. #14906
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Yeah, do you not think that part of seeing how it goes is listening to player feedback? Or do you think that seeing how it goes involves waiting to see how many people unsub and running the risk of them never returning?
    See how it goes in my eyes has nothing to do with feedback till it's actually released. You can't give feedback on something that is not out. I also highly doubt it has anything to do with subs, remember when crz came out? Yeah months of whining and they stack to it.

  7. #14907
    Quote Originally Posted by manswtor View Post
    I'm pretty sure they haven't, since as they said at the start they just don't know. Why is it so hard to understand? They want to see how it goes, which is fair enough. Comparing this to a silly chopper is also no where near similar thing, it was pretty clear since the begging that it was going to be done. They never actually said there won't be Alliance chopper, they just said Horde will get their for free. As for the flying it was actually made pretty clear by Lore 2 days ago that they still do not know. Discussing this topic is like an endless triangle.
    The reason for this thread, and the reason this topic has been talked about on forums and the like for so long, is because they don't know. We are discussing the potential removal of flight from the entirety of the next expac, because Blizz doesn't doesn't know if it will be back or not.

    Within that discussion we are arguing on the benefits and pitfalls of flight, our hopes and fears for flights "in limbo" status, changes that could be made to flight that are better than removal, why Blizz can't design content for flight anymore, and why Blizz can't make a solid decision either way on the subject, stringing its customers along over a clearly divisive issue while continuing to sell mounts made for and as a bonus to buying the next expac.

    People will likely continue to discuss this issue until Blizz makes a decision either way, because the issue is important to them for any reason. Blizz has discussed a change to the game and said it is up in the air based on feedback, we are providing that feedback.

    Enough people spoke up about that "silly" chopper to reverse the initial idea behind the bikes, and yes, it was clear that the begging done by Alliance players was going to get the chopper obtainable for them in game. It obviously wasn't just about a silly mount for some, and they discussed that issue because it mattered to them.

    The Horde mount isn't free, it is hidden behind the paywall of 1 months sub. You have to log in to obtain it, and one could cynically say they set it up like that to inflate the sub numbers for the next quarter.

    As for the flying, yes, weren't you talking about that at the start of your post?

    Quote Originally Posted by manswtor View Post
    See how it goes in my eyes has nothing to do with feedback till it's actually released. You can't give feedback on something that is not out. I also highly doubt it has anything to do with subs, remember when crz came out? Yeah months of whining and they stack to it.
    It is on the beta, enabling us to see what is planned on being released and provide feedback on it.

    Re : Subs, 2 more days, and we will all be in a better decision to see how recent decisions and lack of new content have effected subs on live, it should be interesting imo.
    Last edited by CheeseSandwich; 2014-08-03 at 10:05 PM.
    "These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "

  8. #14908
    Quote Originally Posted by manswtor View Post
    See how it goes in my eyes has nothing to do with feedback till it's actually released. You can't give feedback on something that is not out. I also highly doubt it has anything to do with subs, remember when crz came out? Yeah months of whining and they stack to it.
    Of course you can give feedback on something that is not out, companies the world over ask their customers if they think something is a good idea or not before they commit money to development. I do remember when CRZ came out I also remember that they had, what, 2 million more players at the time although it is unlikely that CRZ was responsible for all the losses. Despite the fact they have stuck with CRZ it clearly has not been the solution to population problems as they had hoped as they have been merging realms.

  9. #14909
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetpeaz View Post
    But dedicating that time does not mean you will find success, it means you spent the time. Nothing more.

    So,I agree current time spent means nothing. So when people try to say:

    Time and effort do not translate to rewards. Effectiveness does.

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    The person who said time and effort means greater rewards. I merely stated they didn't correlate and he kept saying they do. Then he became a mocking little internet tough guy, so I corrected him again.
    Point taken but that will always be true. The important bit is really that rewards are unlikely without a sufficient time commitment. Obviously, 12 hours a day gold farming with a multibox isn't going to make someone an effective heroic raider.

  10. #14910
    Quote Originally Posted by krisusu View Post
    Point taken but that will always be true. The important bit is really that rewards are unlikely without a sufficient time commitment. Obviously, 12 hours a day gold farming with a multibox isn't going to make someone an effective heroic raider.
    I would add 'or real money investment' to that...
    "These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "

  11. #14911
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    Wait, sooo there's a bunch of people who don't comprehend that time and effort translate to rewards in this genre? That's adorable.
    I don't care if I have to spend, say, x hours on pet battles in total to get y pets leveled to max level.

    I'm pretty annoyed though if in addition to that, my time traveling to and from the actual pet battles is doubled or tripled, on top of losing a more fun travel method and the ability to stop and do something fun along the way if I notice it while flying as opposed to a FP where I can't stop and am on a forced AFK...

    I have a very young child and accept that this means I can't hardcore raid at this time in my life, but I won't accept fun things I still can do being taken away and extra time spent on traveling to and from the actual content. At this time in my life I like content I can complete on my own like pet battles...
    Last edited by rebecca191; 2014-08-04 at 12:58 AM.

  12. #14912
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca191 View Post
    I don't care if I have to spend, say, x hours on pet battles in total to get y pets leveled to max level.

    I'm pretty annoyed though if in addition to that, my time traveling to and from the actual pet battles is doubled or tripled, on top of losing a more fun travel method and the ability to stop and do something fun along the way if I notice it while flying as opposed to a FP where I can't stop and am on a forced AFK...
    Bingo. When we're on the time + effort = reward topic, it's always extremely important to remember the allocation of that time. If I'm farming a pet, I may run around the same small area for up to 3 hours just battling pets or killing mobs (whichever is necessary for the pet) and not mind it in the slightest because I'm working towards a goal. However, if I had to factor in the 20 minutes of travel time to get their on ground for no reason, the 5 minute trips (ground mounted) to the NPC to empty my bags and the trips back, I'd be pretty annoyed.

    Then we look at things like archaeology. I've brought this up many times in this thread and it's usually overlooked (I assume archy is just not that popular/relevant to most.) I literally cringe when I think of doing Archy in WoD. I was 45 seconds short of server first Archy in Cata. I love the hell out of its concept, but if you factor in the ridiculous ground mount travel times, this may actually be the first time in 5ish years that I'll be completely ignoring the profession.

    So yeah, I'll gladly spend hours doing something I love, but if a majority of that time is allocated into uselessly gated travel times, then forget it. I've got better things to do. I'm not going to base my purchase on whether not we get flight, but it's very realistic that the longevity of my enjoyment in this Xpac could be severely crippled by its prolonged absence.
    Mountains rise in the distance stalwart as the stars, fading forever.
    Roads ever weaving, soul ever seeking the hunter's mark.

  13. #14913
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmekiel View Post
    Having to go to the dungeon yourself makes the amount of places you can go to really limited if you want to be at the dungeon in a timely manner. It basically limits the world to just the new continent.
    Honestly LFD and things like oQueue made me spend more time out in the world because I could do leveling quests, dailies, professions, archeology, pet battles etc while waiting for a group instead of sitting in trade chat for two hours spamming LF TANK AND HEALER FOR X only to have the healer leave by the time you found a tank because it was taking so long and then someone didn't have the flight path and dropped group and someone didn't know how to get there and then you just realized you spent all that time making a group only to not actually get anything done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luko View Post
    Bingo. When we're on the time + effort = reward topic, it's always extremely important to remember the allocation of that time. If I'm farming a pet, I may run around the same small area for up to 3 hours just battling pets or killing mobs (whichever is necessary for the pet) and not mind it in the slightest because I'm working towards a goal. However, if I had to factor in the 20 minutes of travel time to get their on ground for no reason, the 5 minute trips (ground mounted) to the NPC to empty my bags and the trips back, I'd be pretty annoyed.

    Then we look at things like archaeology. I've brought this up many times in this thread and it's usually overlooked (I assume archy is just not that popular/relevant to most.) I literally cringe when I think of doing Archy in WoD. I was 45 seconds short of server first Archy in Cata. I love the hell out of its concept, but if you factor in the ridiculous ground mount travel times, this may actually be the first time in 5ish years that I'll be completely ignoring the profession.

    So yeah, I'll gladly spend hours doing something I love, but if a majority of that time is allocated into uselessly gated travel times, then forget it. I've got better things to do. I'm not going to base my purchase on whether not we get flight, but it's very realistic that the longevity of my enjoyment in this Xpac could be severely crippled by its prolonged absence.
    I actually started doing archy again during my MoP sub to trade for Tol'vir fragments. Never did get that damn bug mount. Actually that was my problem with the original archy in Cata. You could keep getting digsites for completed races forever. I spent so many hours on NE digsites during Cata trying for that mount. MoP archy was so much better, I traded everything in for TV fragments so no dig site felt "useless." I never did get the bug mount before I cancelled my sub, but at least all my archy time was spent on having a chance at it.

  14. #14914
    Quote Originally Posted by krisusu View Post
    Point taken but that will always be true. The important bit is really that rewards are unlikely without a sufficient time commitment. Obviously, 12 hours a day gold farming with a multibox isn't going to make someone an effective heroic raider.
    True but they're not trying to be a heroic raider if they're spending all their time farming gold. And it's no secret that time investment=greater reward. It's true for almost anything.

  15. #14915
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    True but they're not trying to be a heroic raider if they're spending all their time farming gold. And it's no secret that time investment=greater reward. It's true for almost anything.
    There are many kinds of time sinks though. Some of us don't object to spending a lot of time directly on a specific goal, and are fine if it takes us the same amount of total time but spread out over more weeks compared to someone with more free time to play, but don't like a requirement to spend a lot of time on busy work that's blocking the way to the content we are interested in. It's why I hated things like resist gear back when I was a hardcore raider. If they want to make a boss take tons of attempts to learn and perfect, fine, but having to spend every damn Saturday night clearing Black Temple trash over and over and over again for Hearts of Darkness so that we could even start serious attempts on the boss was really obnoxious. (needless to say I think doing away with resist gear for raid bosses is one of the good decisions Blizz has made over the years).

  16. #14916
    Most of the argument is still being based on travel time when it's really not gonna be that hard to get around.

  17. #14917
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Most of the argument is still being based on travel time when it's really not gonna be that hard to get around.
    Hi! My (And many other people's) Argument consists of 'Hey. I've done this crap and seen that for the two-millionth time in a few months, and will continue to see it on dozens of alts! It's stale now, lemme fly in 6.1' which isn't asking for much. after being given 3-4 months to do it all, people griping about flight because of reasons are being greedy as hell.

  18. #14918
    I love how the "lots of people" argument is still a thing, after years. This thread only has 758 pages while threads created during the same week/month are already over thousands of pages, hell the capitals got more pages than this, and that was recent! No one cares, go unsub if you don't like it, the developers are clearly tired of catering to every single thing because they have learned no matter what they do people bitch and quit.

  19. #14919
    "only" 758 pages

    the capitals got more pages than this
    lolnope.jpg

    This is like the fourth multi-hundred page thread on this subject here. The first one started the last day of BlizzCon.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  20. #14920
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineus View Post
    "only" 758 pages


    lolnope.jpg

    This is like the fourth multi-hundred page thread on this subject here. The first one started the last day of BlizzCon.
    Riddle me this then, if it is HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE, complaining about this, how come it is always the same 4 to 5 people in the thread for or against flying, and its always between them and a back and fourth? The Capitals did get more pages than this in its first thread, in much less time too, they were also viewed and responded to by hundreds of people, judging by the comments, if you want to go by that route this thread has far less complainers. As a matter of fact, most of the people in the thread at Blizzcon agreed it was a divided issue, but most, if not all, have come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter, yet for some reason its still somehow a "hot" subscriber issue. Also this is the second multi-hundred page thread on the issue, and the other was much less than this, I believe it died at about 400 pages.

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