Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[CheeseSandwich]

No, its a problem of Blizzard making it possible to skip stuff. Its human nature to do things in most efficient way. When advantages of using easy way are huge (much faster, safer), its a no brainer to use easy way. Now Blizzard have realized that choice doesn't really work in real world and are fixing it by making it impossible to fly.

What stuff are you skipping in MoP by flying? What legitimate, engaging content was made in any expac with flying for that matter that players just hovered over it thinking "That looks cool, all that down there, I'm just gonna sit up here though".

In places where Blizz wants us to be on the ground to engage it on the ground, they do so ala IoT, IoG, the Thrall Torment chain, Argent Tourny, TI, MF, IoQD etc. They haven't, however, restricted our freedom on how we get there before.

We fly to the places we want to do content, we get on the ground and do that content, then we fly to the next lot of content we want to do. All with the choice to stop and admire that view, kill that rare, harvest that shiny, explore that hidden cave, help that guy leveling kill that mob, do a 180 and mail that thing I just remembered, or fly full bore to my intended destination.

So on the one hand, it is ok for restrict the more efficient play style in game because it apparently makes the game to easy, but on the other hand it is perfectly fine, dare I say encouraged, to fork out an extra charge to easily skip 90 levels of content.

Skipping content that is irrelevant at max level = BAD. Restrict flying.

Skipping content that is irrelevant in terms age = GOOD. Charge 'em for it.

[Gisen]

You have pretty much just nailed that.

Luckily, your opinion is not important.

It's almost as if people have diffrent opinions and are sharing them on these forums

[Ninepenny]

What stuff are you skipping in MoP by flying? What legitimate, engaging content was made in any expac with flying for that matter that players just hovered over it thinking "That looks cool, all that down there, I'm just gonna sit up here though".

Combat.

In places where Blizz wants us to be on the ground to engage it on the ground, they do so ala IoT, IoG, the Thrall Torment chain, Argent Tourny, TI, MF, IoQD etc. They haven't, however, restricted our freedom on how we get there before.

And now they want you to remain on the ground in all Draenor places. Yes, they restricted your options, cause one option allowed you to skip combat at will.

We fly to the places we want to do content, we get on the ground and do that content, then we fly to the next lot of content we want to do. All with the choice to stop and admire that view, kill that rare, harvest that shiny, explore that hidden cave, help that guy leveling kill that mob, do a 180 and mail that thing I just remembered, or fly full bore to my intended destination.

No you'll have to go to the places to do content while risking engaging combat. Mission accomplished.

Skipping content that is irrelevant at max level = BAD. Restrict flying.

Combat always remains relevant whether it's trivial or not.

[Replica]

Speak for yourself.

you seem kind of mad

[CheeseSandwich]

Combat.

And now they want you to remain on the ground in all Draenor places. Yes, they restricted your options, cause one option allowed you to skip combat at will.

No you'll have to go to the places to do content while risking engaging combat. Mission accomplished.

Combat always remains relevant whether it's trivial or not.

You mean for 8 years while I was happily flying around, skipping combat that was irrelevant to me on the way to combat that was relevant to me, I was playing the game wrong? And now, Flight paths and portals will get me engaged in so much more combat?

It also allowed me to enter combat and engage with anything in the world while travelling at will.

You mean when you are on your way to your weekly Ordos kill, you stop and kill every mob that engages you in combat? Really?

Fair chunk of combat made trivial by skipping 90 levels.

[Luko]

Combat.

And now they want you to remain on the ground in all Draenor places. Yes, they restricted your options, cause one option allowed you to skip combat at will.

No you'll have to go to the places to do content while risking engaging combat. Mission accomplished.

Combat always remains relevant whether it's trivial or not.

Are you really insinuating that you stop and attack every single thing that aggros you while you're travelling around. I mean, it's an... interesting concept but overall seems like a giant waste of time.

When I'm forced to be on my ground mount, I'm still following the exact same mentality that I have when I'm on my flying mount, which is to get from point A to point B. I'm not going to stop and deal with the randomly placed enemies on the way, and even in the case of an unfortunate dismount, I'm still going to disengage, feign death, sprint, heroic leap, ghost wolf, cat form dash (etc) in the same direction I was running before.

No complexity is added by the removal of flying mounts, only the time it takes to accomplish the exact same task.

[Ninepenny]

You mean for 8 years while I was happily flying around, skipping combat that was irrelevant to me on the way to combat that was relevant to me, I was playing the game wrong? And now, Flight paths and portals will get me engaged in so much more combat?

You were playing the game how the game allowed you to play it. Now (if) you'll play WoD how the game allows you to play it in Draenor. Also, FP and portals are not comparable to flying, since they don't offer you flexibility and freedom that flying does ( and according to Blizzard flying gives you too much of it and I agree with them).

Are you really insinuating that you stop and attack every single thing that aggros you while you're travelling around. I mean, it's an... interesting concept but overall seems like a giant waste of time.

No.

When I'm forced to be on my ground mount, I'm still following the exact same mentality that I have when I'm on my flying mount, which is to get from point A to point B. I'm not going to stop and deal with the randomly placed enemies on the way, and even in the case of an unfortunate dismount, I'm still going to disengage, feign death, sprint, heroic leap, ghost wolf, cat form dash (etc) in the same direction I was running before.

And noone is forcing you to deal with every mob on your way. But if you get dismounted, then be welcome to actually use your combat abilities which is more than outright skipping combat (which flying allows).

[Deleted]

Are you really insinuating that you stop and attack every single thing that aggros you while you're travelling around. I mean, it's an... interesting concept but overall seems like a giant waste of time.

When I'm forced to be on my ground mount, I'm still following the exact same mentality that I have when I'm on my flying mount, which is to get from point A to point B. I'm not going to stop and deal with the randomly placed enemies on the way, and even in the case of an unfortunate dismount, I'm still going to disengage, feign death, sprint, heroic leap, ghost wolf, cat form dash (etc) in the same direction I was running before.

No complexity is added by the removal of flying mounts, only the time it takes to accomplish the exact same task.

The point is that without flying you'll either be fighting these mobs or doing some Solid Snake style shenanigans to sneak around them. This adds complexity compared to flying over their heads and parachuting down onto your quest target.

[HeedmySpeed]

This conversation will go no where until the pro-fliers stop tunneling and realize that self imposing no-flying on yourself does not achieve the desired results as a player base wide restriction on flying mounts.

It's the same reason LFR discussion doesn't go anywhere. Abstaining from an activity has consequences, it's not the same as if it never existed.

[Conscious]

you seem kind of mad

You wish.

People that presume to speak on everyone's behalves however, are usually the mad ones.

Thanks for playing tho.

[Maneo]

This conversation will go no where until the pro-fliers stop tunneling and realize that self imposing no-flying on yourself does not achieve the desired results as a player base wide restriction on flying mounts.

It's the same reason LFR discussion doesn't go anywhere. Abstaining from an activity has consequences, it's not the same as if it never existed.

Just like this conversation will go no where until that anti flight people realize that removing flight does nothing to improve game play at max level. If they could stop and think for beyond the raging hard on they have for WPVP they would understand.

All it doesn't it just make development easier for the Devs and could possibly save them money down the road on future expacs.

I have asked this several times and it hasn't been answered, w/out being countered w/ease.

How does the removal of flight as the game is now in beta improve gameplay for the majority of players (PVE players)?

[Deleted]

How does the removal of flight as the game is now in beta improve gameplay for the majority of players (PVE players)?

The point is that without flying you'll either be fighting these mobs or doing some Solid Snake style shenanigans to sneak around them. This adds complexity compared to flying over their heads and parachuting down onto your quest target.

There you go. Literally on the same page.

[KungFuFanta]

ehm about the DC/ED when alt-tabbed with autorun ... ehm No? wtf are you blabbering?

If I'm on auto run and alt tabbed for 15-20 seconds whenever I tab back I'm dc/ed at log in screen. Google it, lots of people have this problem.

[HeedmySpeed]

How does the removal of flight as the game is now in beta improve gameplay for the majority of players (PVE players)?

Just think about how you interact with world mobs on a flying mount vs a ground mount.
You aren't allowed to be as selective about what you fight on a ground mount.

Imagine there's a mountain top where a quest boss sits. As it stands now, you only have to mount up and fly to the top and kill it.

Without a flying mount you have to fight your way up the mountain (this is where Blizzard inserts the gameplay).

[KungFuFanta]

Just think about how you interact with world mobs on a flying mount vs a ground mount.
You aren't allowed to be as selective about what you fight on a ground mount.

Imagine there's a mountain top where a quest boss sits. As it stands now, you only have to mount up and fly to the top and kill it.

Without a flying mount you have to fight your way up the mountain (this is where Blizzard inserts the gameplay).

False. Leveling is done by ground mount. The first time on every alt you kill that enemy at the top of the mountain you're forced to also kill all the adds in its way (unless you're a Druid...or Rogue...or Mage with greater invisibility...hmm, I guess those classes miss out on all the "gameplay", anyway). The point is that once you're at max level, you shouldn't be forced to fight pointless weak enemies for no good reason. This isn't Firefall or GW2. Enemies don't stay challenging here against someone in Tier 155363558757453. Enemies in WoW are dumb and are weak if you're max level with epic gear.

[rebecca191]

Judging by some of the beta videos, they are kind of dumb and weak long before epic gear.

[KungFuFanta]

Judging by some of the beta videos, they are kind of dumb and weak long before epic gear.

Was trying to be partial in my argument.

[Prothall]

Hmm... Sun's still hot. I thought you all would have been able to make it cooler by now, just by wanting and wishing really hard.

In other news, there's still no flying in WoD, and discussing it on MMO-Champion is pointless, because no one (that we know of) on MMO-Champion is the guy at Blizzard that makes the decision on when there will be flying. But by all means, please continue.

[HeedmySpeed]

The point is that once you're at max level, you shouldn't be forced to fight pointless weak enemies for no good reason.

And what is a "good" reason? Do they need to be bleeding epics like the Timeless Isle trash?

[KungFuFanta]

And what is a "good" reason? Do they need to be bleeding epics like the Timeless Isle trash?

I don't give a flying crap about gear. I asked for years that MOAR STATS gear grind mentality be removed in favor for purely cosmetics gear and skilled PVE combat.

You could give me all the epics in the game I would say "fuck you I'm not having fun". Killing enemies in WoW at max level is generally not fun. It's not like GW2 or Firefall or Neverwinter where there's active dodging, blocking etc. So there is no good reason to fight them because they offer no challenge. Challenge and interesting combat = fun. That's why Counter Strike is 16 years old and millions still play it, because it always remains challenging, hence fun.

Loot =/= fun. Grind more loot to grind more loot to grind more loot. I don't give a fuck about loot.