1. #16321
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Finding people was not usually a problem, only time it was was when you were looking for a certain class with CC, but it's not like that'd matter now. Even in a BC private server with only around 500 people on you can find a group for almost anything. I wouldn't have a problem with LFG if you still had to travel to the dungeon and if it only grouped you with people on your server(I may be lenient on that one, it could at least try to group you with people in your sever if it doesn't already). MoP heroic 5 mans and scenarios were a giant joke. Cone to think of it it's the only expansion where u truly despised doing 5 mans. Even running through the dungeon like you were an OP monster wasn't fun because it was so undertuned.
    The decline of 5 man quality since LFG(other than maybe Cata, but of course the QQ ruined that) is reason enough for me to oppose LFG. As for LFR, with flex here now, it needs to go. End game raids need to maintain at least a shred of dignity.

    Imagine if they were removing flying and you still had to run to dungeons, on a 40% speed mount no less. Some people would have a heart attack.
    I think Blizz has failed to utilize dungeons to their full potential. They should be the obvious choice for to keep player hooked for longer, release a few dungeons every second content patch with 3 differing difficulty levels that drops gear that fills in gaps or highlights your raiding gear. A thing to use as a catch up mechanism, while they use patch zones to promote world interaction, story develoupment and new rep factions w/e.

    Make players discover those dungeons, and make the hardest difficulty unqueable for, hell even manual entering, to add to the significance of it. Incentivise players to push themselves to venture forth, and they will go there and do it, flying just aids them in getting to that place in a way they enjoy.

    And tbh, I laugh and groan when I imagine that, my main was a lock, oh my lord I think I would have to bind my summon port to something.
    Me to WoW chat : "This ice epidemic is out of control. 3 horses have just tested positive in Victoria. Where do horses find Ice dealers anyway?"
    Random king of the internet : "Probably from a drug mule."

  2. #16322
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I guess some people have a hard time dealing with their own irrelevance.
    So much for "every voice matters".
    ~ sic transit gloria mundi ~

  3. #16323
    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    So much for "every voice matters".
    Mistaking "matters" for "must oblige everyone who talks"

  4. #16324
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    It's feedback, not a petition to change something.
    There is no democracy in blizzards design decisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    Mistaking "matters" for "must oblige everyone who talks"
    And they mistake it currently with "must oblige to noone but me".
    ~ sic transit gloria mundi ~

  5. #16325
    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    There is no democracy in blizzards design decisions.
    I highly suggest you learn what democracy is and then rethink how you're somehow applying it to a private or even a public company where even the board doesn't decide the game direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    And they mistake it currently with "must oblige to noone but me".
    Cuz it must oblige to no one but them...do you think your opinions with 0 experience or 10000000 yrs experience means shit lol? Go make a game better than theirs then, just like all these competitors tried and...inevitably failed.

  6. #16326
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    I highly suggest you learn what democracy is and then rethink how you're somehow applying it to a private or even a public company where even the board doesn't decide the game direction.
    Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens are meant to participate equally – either directly or, through elected representatives, indirectly – in the proposal, development and establishment of the laws by which their society is run. And i was right - there is no democracy in blizzards design decisions, as they dont ask their community. They are infact tyrants that even offend a large part of the playerbase with their decisions in their ivory tower of PR propaganda.
    ~ sic transit gloria mundi ~

  7. #16327
    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens are meant to participate equally – either directly or, through elected representatives, indirectly – in the proposal, development and establishment of the laws by which their society is run. And i was right - there is no democracy in blizzards design decisions, as they dont ask their community. They are infact tyrants that even offend a large part of the playerbase.
    So...how are you applying something that is a form of government to a public or private company? I mean you can spout a definition, and still not answer the question, kind of baffling. Oh is it a stretch? Oh tyrants? Oh you're the people? Rofl smh this is why we can't have nice things.

  8. #16328
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    do you think your opinions with 0 experience or 10000000 yrs experience means shit lol?
    No, as i said, neither my opinion, nor the opinion of the community matters to blizzard. And that is what i tried to tell you.

    I am sure they got a comparable rotten arrogant attitude as like you are showing here.
    ~ sic transit gloria mundi ~

  9. #16329
    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    No, as i said, neither my opinion, nor the opinion of the community matters to blizzard. And that is what i tried to tell you.

    I am sure they got a comparable rotten arrogant attitude as like you are showing here.
    Interesting, thank you for commenting on my attitude, let me brb, just gonna make the greatest MMO of all time. Holla at me. - BLizzard

    OH BTW, they don't say that, I do.

  10. #16330
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    So...how are you applying something that is a form of government to a public or private company?
    The company and their employees and customers also are a society. So democracy could be applied to it. And i focus on direct democracy thru polls an example. Which just doesnt happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    OH BTW, they don't say that, I do.
    No, they say that. You just parrot it.
    Last edited by rym; 2014-08-15 at 06:43 PM.
    ~ sic transit gloria mundi ~

  11. #16331
    Quote Originally Posted by rym View Post
    The company and their "people" also are a society. So democracy could be applied to it. And i focus on direct democracy thru polls for example. Which just doesnt happen

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    No, they say that. You just parrot it.
    BULLLLLLLSHIT. Sorry, democracy can't be applied to it. You have basic voting rights in society that give you a voice. In Blizzard, you have a right to pay or not pay, that's it.

  12. #16332
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    In Blizzard, you have a right to pay or not pay, that's it.
    And thats what i talked about. Finally we are d'accord. Thanks sir, for this discussion.
    ~ sic transit gloria mundi ~

  13. #16333
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    BULLLLLLLSHIT. Sorry, democracy can't be applied to it. You have basic voting rights in society that give you a voice. In Blizzard, you have a right to pay or not pay, that's it.
    Technically, that is our vote. Paying or not paying directly influences what Blizzard can or cannot do.
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyray View Post
    what? you can knock people off ground mounts with auto attack.

  14. #16334
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    I'll answer the questions in order.

    No it won't. If WoW's sub rate drops to 5 million, or 4 million, it doesn't affect me because the population that come back for the content will remain the same as long as it remains compelling. MIND YOU, I play with plenty of mediocre players in both of those games as well, and in Dota, I'm just mediocre myself, and I can still bring myself to enjoy it. What I do not prescribe to is people who "got shit to do, so can't bring myself to spend any time" mentality.

    I agree, a majority of players don't raid at a Heroic level, or raid at all. And that's fine to me. But if you want to argue with the sound reasoning of the removal of a feature (aka having the relevance of a game world that you interact with), then I don't care what your preference is, it's a personal problem, not something with the game itself.

    As to why I wanted to play even while flight was a thing then? Because, as stated above, even though I severely dislike certain aspects of the game, I am not interested in having a crusade about things I dislike when I can focus on the positive as opposed to the negative for my experience. However, when other people I am interacting with in the game act in a selfish way that may affect the direction the game is being developed, I'm obviously going to oppose that to some degree. For example with the various queueing systems (which I like, but needs to be modified imo), LFR, etc.

    You can make anything work with flying. I don't want possibilities. I want no options. This has to be a guarantee of interaction.


    FINALLY, you assume I don't give a fuck. I do. What I don't give a fuck about is your threats to unsub, or "see what's gonna happen in 6.1" etc. What I don't give a fuck about is shitty alternative ideas like lowering the flight ceiling, slowing down flight, or other bullshit. If there's no compelling content for flying (and no storm peaks is not a good example), then fuck it.
    By removing the possibility of flying from the next expac, they are narrowing the field of what content in game is compelling to each individual. If someone finds flying to explore new areas compelling, then they are shit out of luck for the foreseeable future.

    Imagine (incoming lame comparison) if DOTA 2 guys said 'Couriers are going to be removed for an indefinite amount of time, pending player feedback. We are unhappy with the way players skip the content of the world by not going to their base to buy items. We may bring couriers back at some point in the future, but that will depend on an overwhelming majority player feedback."
    Kinda seems like a cop out yeah?

    May I ask how flying has negatively impacted your game? I only ask because the example you provide is about queuing for things, which has little to do with flight. Just as you liked certain aspects of the game that didn't include flight, other people liked aspects of the game that did include flight. Should their enjoyment of the game be compromised for the sake of the other half?

    If Blizz made content that was awesome enough that players wanted to interact with it, you would have guaranteed player interaction, flight or no flight.

    I'm making no threats to unsub, friend, I already have, but not because of flying. I agree, I would much rather Blizz make compelling flying content than remove it altogether.
    Me to WoW chat : "This ice epidemic is out of control. 3 horses have just tested positive in Victoria. Where do horses find Ice dealers anyway?"
    Random king of the internet : "Probably from a drug mule."

  15. #16335
    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    Technically, that is our vote. Paying or not paying directly influences what Blizzard can or cannot do.
    Wrong again. You don't understand how shareholders work, and as long as Blizzard is in the plus, they can still get a pass.

  16. #16336
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    Wrong again. You don't understand how shareholders work, and as long as Blizzard is in the plus, they can still get a pass.
    Blizzard cannot operate without our money... If no one pays for the game, Blizzard cannot create content.
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyray View Post
    what? you can knock people off ground mounts with auto attack.

  17. #16337
    If you live in Blizzard-Country, your only way to change society is to become an exile.

    And even that doesnt work, as the tyrants of Blizzard Country will interprete the massive exodus to fit to their agenda. And their propaganda machine will tell everyone that "it's not the tyrants fault the people leave".

    While it infact is. Blizzard, and blizzard alone, decides about the fate of World of Warcraft. And every lost customer is a direct consequence from what they plan and implement.
    Last edited by rym; 2014-08-15 at 06:57 PM.
    ~ sic transit gloria mundi ~

  18. #16338
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    BULLLLLLLSHIT. Sorry, democracy can't be applied to it. You have basic voting rights in society that give you a voice. In Blizzard, you have a right to pay or not pay, that's it.
    It is capitalism. In a sense of form of bastardized democracy you cast your votes with your wallet. If 3 million people left WoW because of the removal of flight do you think Blizz would not try to bring it back to draw those players back in?

    I still stand on the premise that no flight could work but as beta has shown Blizz is either unwilling or incapable to make the changes to do so.

    Removing flight with the addition of nothing else, does nothing for the game but make already tedious tasks gathering, pet battles, archeology, etc etc more tedious at best a chore at worst.

    This in response once max level content is consumed (3 weeks tops) will drive the vast majority of the player base into their garrisons or capital cities. Having the opposite effect of bringing people out into the world, and practically turning Blizz into a lobby game for the majority.

    So the basic question is how much does instanced content occupy your game play... If the vast majority of your time is spent in instanced content this will have a minimal effect on you. However if you were like me a person that probably played close to 40 hours a week (benefit of being semi retired), but instanced content was maybe only 40% of your game play.... this is a terrible way to take to game cause it is going to turn 60% of the game into a tedious mess.

    Blizzard said they had no intention of making travel tedious or time consuming, it however still hasn't been addressed beyond flight paths (that are still horrible btw in beta)

  19. #16339
    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    By removing the possibility of flying from the next expac, they are narrowing the field of what content in game is compelling to each individual. If someone finds flying to explore new areas compelling, then they are shit out of luck for the foreseeable future.

    Imagine (incoming lame comparison) if DOTA 2 guys said 'Couriers are going to be removed for an indefinite amount of time, pending player feedback. We are unhappy with the way players skip the content of the world by not going to their base to buy items. We may bring couriers back at some point in the future, but that will depend on an overwhelming majority player feedback."
    Kinda seems like a cop out yeah?

    May I ask how flying has negatively impacted your game? I only ask because the example you provide is about queuing for things, which has little to do with flight. Just as you liked certain aspects of the game that didn't include flight, other people liked aspects of the game that did include flight. Should their enjoyment of the game be compromised for the sake of the other half?

    If Blizz made content that was awesome enough that players wanted to interact with it, you would have guaranteed player interaction, flight or no flight.

    I'm making no threats to unsub, friend, I already have, but not because of flying. I agree, I would much rather Blizz make compelling flying content than remove it altogether.
    Btw just a disclaimer for you Cheese, when I say 'you' I mean proflying crowd in general, may not apply to you.

    First question: Yes, you're right they are shit out of luck. And I'm fine with that.

    Next, that example does not apply as Valve does not operate in such a bullshit wishy washy way. Couriers are gone, they are gone. If they are here, they are here. Rockstar took the petition to "move GTA 5 to the PC faster" laughed, and threw it in the trash.

    IMO what should Blizzard do? Flying is gone for X. Good. Flying is here for X. Good. This wishy washy shit is stupid, but reflects the poor decisionmaking Blizzard does because it talks to the Playerbase way too much.

    Next, how does flying negatively impact the game for me? 1 rule. I never hate the playa, I hate the game. If an overpowered character exists, or convenience exists, I will never blame a person for using it, but rather the game for allowing it. In this case, I won't hate on anyone for flying, nor avoid flying myself if that convenience exists. However, I will also on that same note, criticize how that feature or character is overpowered, and the game should do something about it.

    Example 1) Pokemon have overpowered pokemon. I can't hate on you for using it though, and it falls on players to make "banlists" in the form of Smogon and other shit. And a certain group of people hate those lists. Coolbeans. It should be the game developers job to create tiers/balance, etc.

    Example 2) Smash Brothers Melee has clear tiers of characters. If you pick ONLY Marth, I can't hate on you. Again, the game allowed you to do so, nor do I want to create a environment where I tell my friends "Hey, this is a Marth-free day" or in this case "Hey, this is a no-flying day for us" even tho Marth and flying respectively, clearly exists in the game.

    Example 3) Guild wars 1 has quick-travel that in my opinion hurt the game. I am not going to avoid using quick travel, just because I have the option to run everywhere technically. Why? Because I play the game as it was designed, not as I feel I or you or Joe should play it.

    Finally, WOW Example) There's a hill, that I need to go around. There's a cliff I need to climb. There's some shit I need to explore. These things are nullified by flight. Just because I explored it before, does not mean that it's boring all of a sudden and I should be able to skip it in order to do my daily quest faster or collect herbs faster. Furthermore, on that same line of thought, I shouldn't be forced to impose a limitation on myself when the game fails to create a need for me to "not fly".

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    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    Blizzard cannot operate without our money... If no one pays for the game, Blizzard cannot create content.
    Surprise, most people will still pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maneo View Post
    It is capitalism. In a sense of form of bastardized democracy you cast your votes with your wallet. If 3 million people left WoW because of the removal of flight do you think Blizz would not try to bring it back to draw those players back in?

    I still stand on the premise that no flight could work but as beta has shown Blizz is either unwilling or incapable to make the changes to do so.

    Removing flight with the addition of nothing else, does nothing for the game but make already tedious tasks gathering, pet battles, archeology, etc etc more tedious at best a chore at worst.

    This in response once max level content is consumed (3 weeks tops) will drive the vast majority of the player base into their garrisons or capital cities. Having the opposite effect of bringing people out into the world, and practically turning Blizz into a lobby game for the majority.

    So the basic question is how much does instanced content occupy your game play... If the vast majority of your time is spent in instanced content this will have a minimal effect on you. However if you were like me a person that probably played close to 40 hours a week (benefit of being semi retired), but instanced content was maybe only 40% of your game play.... this is a terrible way to take to game cause it is going to turn 60% of the game into a tedious mess.

    Blizzard said they had no intention of making travel tedious or time consuming, it however still hasn't been addressed beyond flight paths (that are still horrible btw in beta)
    Sorry, but no. If you lose 3 million players, they will not attest that reason to flight. They will try to make gameplay more compelling and release content faster, aka the only reason they lose subs.

  20. #16340
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    Sorry, but no. If you lose 3 million players, they will not attest that reason to flight. They will try to make gameplay more compelling and release content faster, aka the only reason they lose subs.
    It's as if you quoted me here. Yes, they always will take the reasons that fit to their agenda.
    ~ sic transit gloria mundi ~

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