1. #17201
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    You really think too much of yourself if you want to simplify it that way and think your stance is the only right one.

    I dislike Blizzard for loads of things but I've been against flying for ages and I think they should stick with no flying, but to you I'm just white knighting Blizzard by saying that I guess.
    Kind of hard to explain why removing convenience is the right thing to do. Especially, when we had flying on the same continent (outlands) but slightly smaller because that was post explosion.

    In no way did flying remove anything from the game in BC, but go ahead and explain why everyone should be inconvenienced and try not to make me laugh while you do it.

  2. #17202
    Quote Originally Posted by ScourgeSlayer View Post
    I fail to understand peoples' obsession with no flying. Sure I do agree that you should remain grounded for the leveling process and what not, but when you hit max level what then? There is no reason for them to remove it from really any stand point. It is more harmful than helpful really... It removes what immersion WoW has and it is also even more time consuming.

    0/10.
    I agree at least at the point where you say time consuming. Blizzard said they do not intend to make travel time consuming or tedious but have failed to mention (or show us in beta) how they are going to accomplish this.

    As far as immersion, that is completely subjective. While some may find riding around on ground mounts to be the pinnacle of immersion others don't. Personally I find siting on a flight path where the only thing I have to do is alt tab or walk away from my computer to heavily break immersion. I also find seeing winged mounts running around on the ground like wounded parrots to do much the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiift View Post
    Lol, this thread has been a 800 page deja vu made up of close to 20 people calling others dumb, entitled, and disagreeing without end.

    What's the fucking purpose of this thread and why is it still open?
    To attempt at a mild level of success at keeping it down to one thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    No flying is the most epic addition of all time. It will be interesting to see you getting the fuck out of our game (forever please ?)
    Flight may not be the most epic edition to WoW but it is the first and really only original thing they have ever done. Pretty much all WoW does is grab concepts and ideas from other games and make them their own. Not that their is anything wrong with that, I think if WoW does have another expac Wildstar will be a game they will mimic much from.

    Now it regards to your post really what is the point, or do you just like being a asshole. He obviously enjoyed or enjoys the game and in entitled to his opinion, and that is what message boards are for. Pro tip if you don't like don't read it, also may want to avoid the Internets if you expect everyone to agree with you.

  3. #17203
    Quote Originally Posted by Deviant View Post
    Way to misquote me... I am still working for it. If I kill the boss that drops my quest item or kill the rare that drops "x" vanity item. Quickly reaching my destination where I will still have to quest... That isn't anywhere near as powerful as cc which just gives me anything I want with a command line. Stop being irrational. No, I don't mind flying being removed for the first patch but after 6.1 when I get my full season 16 gear and two shot everything but rares and the rare challenging quest mobs bring back flight. That and I want to see zones from a top view when they're obsolete and everyone is in loot pinata land 2.0.
    You are acting as if flight is the only solution to this issue. It's up to Blizzard to make the obstacles between you and your goal more interesting at level 100. Whether they do or not is in the air, but that doesn't mean flight is the only answer. A lot of the people who want flight don't like flying because they think it's fun, they like it because they want their "fix" without having to work for it.

    No one responded to my suggestion about Diddy Kong Racing. If you like flight so much based on the game play of it, that's a game you'd enjoy more.

  4. #17204
    Bloodsail Admiral ScourgeSlayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maneo View Post
    I agree at least at the point where you say time consuming. Blizzard said they do not intend to make travel time consuming or tedious but have failed to mention (or show us in beta) how they are going to accomplish this.

    As far as immersion, that is completely subjective. While some may find riding around on ground mounts to be the pinnacle of immersion others don't. Personally I find siting on a flight path where the only thing I have to do is alt tab or walk away from my computer to heavily break immersion. I also find seeing winged mounts running around on the ground like wounded parrots to do much the same thing.
    Exactly my point, we have Gyphons, Rockets, Wyrvrens (excuse the spelling), and even drakes yet somehow they are all limited to the ground even though they have perfectly fine wings and had no problem carrying us into the air on Azeroth or outlands. Lore wise all of these things are flight capable yet can't fly on Draenor. Makes absolutely no sense.

  5. #17205
    Quote Originally Posted by badzerath View Post
    Well, you see - there are three camps:

    Blizzard defenders (white knights): Will defend blizzard's stance no matter what.

    Blizzard haters (douchebags): Will hate blizzard's stance no matter what.

    People who live in reality: Understand no flying until level 100 on draenor, but if it is just unavailable entirely - we realize that is a poor decision.
    Well yes and no. You have those groups then the WPVP peeps, Rose Colored glasses folks, the people who want the game to be more tedious and time consuming (for whatever reason), the people that are thrilled to finally be getting new content, and the people that are of the mindset to give Blizz the benefit of the doubt and give this no flight thing a try. (think the last two will switch to the pro flight side when the newness is gone and realize no significant changes have been made to the game.)

    Personally I don't see myself as a Blizz hater this is really the only thing I have ever complained about in game beyond 1 or two posts. I do see myself as a person that feels blizz has lost a great deal of integrity with this anti flight movement for a couple reasons.

    1. Flying at max level wasn't a problem for 4 expacs and almost 8 years all of a sudden it is.
    2. Bashioks comment " We want to slow down the consumption of content"
    3. The fact they say they don't want travel to become tedious or time consuming but have yet to accomplish this or even say how they intend to accomplish this.
    4. The fact that while they announced the removal of reforging and other things at Blizzcon on stage they avoided this subject all together. Unless you spend time on forums you have no clue this is coming. Hell according to my guildmates (talk to em on Skype) most still think that flying is returning in 6.1
    5. The fact they are selling a FLYING mount at the Blizz store that is supposed to originate from WoD but yet won't be able to fly there w/no disclaimer given.
    6. The fact they are selling a collectors edition FLYING mount w/the expac they don't intend to allow flying in (if they can get away with it w/out losing to many subs)

  6. #17206
    Mechagnome Vampz's Avatar
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    Whats it matter?
    You're all just going to AFK in Org/Sw on your flying mounts queing for 5mans/LFR anyways.
    I fail to see why you would want to take your "no stress" 2 week vacay and shoot the shit with the budies online and just enjoy leveling and gearing up rather than rush through it by flying over everything in your way.
    A very, VERY large population of the game will ragequit due to the difficulty of the heroics currently. If those go live, a whole whack load of people are going to quit just because "blizz didn't hold my hand and I couldn't gear up in the first 2 weeks. QQ unsub"
    I mentioned this somewhere earlier too, but my TBC Talbuk is ready for a ride.
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  7. #17207
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaagii View Post
    You are acting as if flight is the only solution to this issue. It's up to Blizzard to make the obstacles between you and your goal more interesting at level 100. Whether they do or not is in the air, but that doesn't mean flight is the only answer. A lot of the people who want flight don't like flying because they think it's fun, they like it because they want their "fix" without having to work for it.

    No one responded to my suggestion about Diddy Kong Racing. If you like flight so much based on the game play of it, that's a game you'd enjoy more.
    I have to say you must be deliberately being obtuse.

    Very few people play WoW for the joy of flight so your little Diddy Kong Racing statement is pointless.

    Flight offers freedom to deal with or not deal with the non instanced content you find trivial and pointless.

    As far as the part of your post I put in bold. It isn't up in the air beta is live and the haven't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampz View Post
    Whats it matter?
    You're all just going to AFK in Org/Sw on your flying mounts queing for 5mans/LFR anyways.
    Speak for yourself. While I was playing I was only in the capital city just right when I logged on and just before I logged off. While in que I was always out in the world doing things. Dailies, archeology, pet battles, gathering etc etc all very tedious tasks that with flight are much less so and is some cases can even be fun.

    The instanced content is only about 40% of the game to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampz View Post
    I fail to see why you would want to take your "no stress" 2 week vacay and shoot the shit with the budies online and just enjoy leveling and gearing up rather than rush through it by flying over everything in your way.
    Read the title of the thread. I think you will find very few people requesting flight while leveling. Hell most would be happy if we got a guarantee it would return in 6.1, I know would.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampz View Post
    A very, VERY large population of the game will ragequit due to the difficulty of the heroics currently. If those go live, a whole whack load of people are going to quit just because "blizz didn't hold my hand and I couldn't gear up in the first 2 weeks. QQ unsub"
    That is possible although the last thing I read is that they were intended to tune the dungeons down some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampz View Post
    I mentioned this somewhere earlier too, but my TBC Talbuk is ready for a ride.
    Awesome I have the spectral tiger so I do like ground mounts... the question is 4 months into the expansion .. you still going to enjoying riding around on it cause you are FORCED to? Think the trip up to Ordos except make that at a much grander scale to something you do every day for about every task you want to accomplish in the open world still fun?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ScourgeSlayer View Post
    Exactly my point, we have Gyphons, Rockets, Wyrvrens (excuse the spelling), and even drakes yet somehow they are all limited to the ground even though they have perfectly fine wings and had no problem carrying us into the air on Azeroth or outlands. Lore wise all of these things are flight capable yet can't fly on Draenor. Makes absolutely no sense.
    I had played with a idea as a challenge from one of my friends. He asked me how I would make a expac for WoW flightless. I posted in this thread much earlier and how I would do it. First the whole of the expansion would be subterranean along with a bunch of other changes.

  8. #17208
    Bloodsail Admiral ScourgeSlayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maneo View Post
    I had played with a idea as a challenge from one of my friends. He asked me how I would make a expac for WoW flightless. I posted in this thread much earlier and how I would do it. First the whole of the expansion would be subterranean along with a bunch of other changes.
    That is iffy, it would all depend on how big the zones are. If they are deepholm size then flight should be a thing.

  9. #17209
    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    No flying is the most epic addition of all time. It will be interesting to see you getting the fuck out of our game (forever please ?)
    I do not care about flying / no flying. I care about having my travel speed decreased by 210%.

    1,000's of pages of posts and I still have not read a decent answer as to why our travel speed needs to be reduced by 210%?

    The problem with the anti-fly people like you is you are a volatile lot, not very reasonable. I need to get the fuck out of the game because i do not like they are implementing one of the largest nerfs in the history of video games?

  10. #17210
    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    It will be interesting to see you getting the fuck out of our game (forever please ?)
    And ppl like this is what think is wrong with WoW ...

  11. #17211
    There is always another way to deal with such a problem -to stop this violence over your brain, quit this game and find something more enjoyable.
    +1

    It's time for all the pro-flyers to put up or shut up. I say that with love, and from the point of view of a pro-flyer. If you're paying Blizzard to not give you what you want, it's time to understand that you're reinforcing the behavior you don't want repeated and respond accordingly.

  12. #17212
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaganfindel View Post
    +1

    It's time for all the pro-flyers to put up or shut up. I say that with love, and from the point of view of a pro-flyer. If you're paying Blizzard to not give you what you want, it's time to understand that you're reinforcing the behavior you don't want repeated and respond accordingly.
    sometimes i wish this forum had a like button...
    i am a "pro-flyer" and i already cancelled sub and refunded pre order....
    not to make a statement or something because my sub wont be missed in all those millions that wow have right now...
    i simply dont like all the negative points of this expansion, all the cuts/delays IMO, and no flying is just one of the many things i dont like about WOD...
    maybe if it returns in 6.1 i will buy WOD or maybe not, i just dont care anymore and are more games out there..
    i still come to MMo champ because i have been lurking here since 2009 and its kind of an habit, like reading the paper in the morning ;P

  13. #17213
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    How ground mounts work in MMOs

    You drive from A to B
    You encounter mobs on the way
    You drive past them
    They aggro
    They run after you
    You arrived at B but mobs are still aggroed
    You drive past point B in hopes for mobs to let go.
    While doing so you accidentally aggro another pack of mobs
    You drive in circles around point B trying to shake them off.
    You drive past guards hoping they will help you.
    Finally they "evade" away
    And you proceed to point B.
    Right away you drive to a local FP and unlock it so you will NEVER EVER again drive on ground mount between A and B.
    Its amazing what people will do to actually avoid playing the game.

  14. #17214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaganfindel View Post
    +1

    It's time for all the pro-flyers to put up or shut up. I say that with love, and from the point of view of a pro-flyer. If you're paying Blizzard to not give you what you want, it's time to understand that you're reinforcing the behavior you don't want repeated and respond accordingly.
    As a "pro flier" I simply don't put that much thought into the game.

    I'm going to buy the expansion because it's going to be fun. I love flight, not even for the convenience, but as many in here have seen me state before, I simply love being in the sky. It's been a selling point for me since TBC. That being said, the lack of flight isn't going to destroy the entire game for me, but its definitely going to murder the longevity of its constant enjoyment. I'm the kind of guy that can almost always find something to do when I log in, but not being able to fly is definitely going to ruin my motivation for many of those things.

    I have a feeling I'll be unsubbing way earlier than I normally do (yes, I always unsub when I get bored, not for any political esque statement to the company, just because only an idiot pays money for a hobby they don't enjoy) however in the mean time I'm not going to rob myself of a couple months of fun just because I want to send blizzard a message. A couple of months is a hell of a lot more gameplay time than I get out of any other game I'd drop 60 bucks for these days.
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  15. #17215
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaganfindel View Post
    +1

    It's time for all the pro-flyers to put up or shut up. I say that with love, and from the point of view of a pro-flyer. If you're paying Blizzard to not give you what you want, it's time to understand that you're reinforcing the behavior you don't want repeated and respond accordingly.
    1 million have left this year alone, 5550 people a day (really 2220 a day 1st quarter, 8889 a day 2nd quarter), and while it is prob primarily a reaction to the lack of new content for half an expansion, again, there may be a portion of people of that that left because of the flying issue, and Blizz's handling of it.

    The relevant thing is though, Blizz has stated recently that they are in containment mode, they think the game won't grow anymore, and they are concentrating their efforts on retention.

    So...what good does potentially removing something a player has grown to like, and risk losing that sub, all for the sake of "we don't know, we'll see how it goes?" Isn't the more appropriate steps as a business selling me something to say either:
    a) we are 100%, no questions asked, removing flight form the future of WoW, we are develouping compelling ground content and better flight paths, such as this 'awesome new out door max level PvE thing', and str8 point a to b, ejectible flight paths, as players have been requesting for years, and we really should know this shit by now".
    b) flying will return at 6.1 as mentioned after Blizzcon, with an awesome flying attunement quest".
    c)We want your feedback before we release WoD in how the no flight thing pans out, so we can exclusively design content going forward that caters to that max level demand. As such, we have devised a Bnet poll/Bnet email questionaire/anything so we can gauge your reaction and make the best game for us all.

    Not just "we dunno if players will like this, we hope they do, because it would be unfortunate if we had to allow flying again. All that experience we have gained from the previous 10 years of having a live version of this game to test and receive feedback and to see what worked really clouded our judgement and confused us, now we don't know what to do. Check back in a month or 2, maybe."

    Not the kind of confidence and belief in a game that would convince me to buy it.
    Last edited by CheeseSandwich; 2014-08-25 at 04:52 PM.
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  16. #17216
    Legendary! Luko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    b) flying will return at 6.1 as mentioned after Blizzcon, with an awesome flying attunement quest".
    I was watching a video of beta gameplay in (I believe) SMV where you help Rexxar tame a huge Rylek type flying beast. At the end of the event he flies off on it.

    It'd almost be worth slogging through a patch with no flying if it meant we get an amazing attunement quest featuring him (or something similar) for 6.1. Something a little more creative than dropping another 5k.
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  17. #17217
    Elemental Lord Maklor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    1 million have left this year alone, 5550 people a day, and while it is prob primarily a reaction to the lack of new content for half an expansion, again, there may be a portion of people of that that left because of the flying issue, and Blizz's handling of it.
    Bullshit, people leave for all sorts of reason - since the no flying is not even in the game yet I doubt any of those one million have quit over no flying.

    (I however am currently not subscribed because of no new content which is why most people "leave").

  18. #17218
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Bullshit, people leave for all sorts of reason - since the no flying is not even in the game yet I doubt any of those one million have quit over no flying.

    (I however am currently not subscribed because of no new content which is why most people "leave").
    Do I have to do this.....

    1 million have left this year alone, 5550 people a day, and while it is prob primarily a reaction to the lack of new content for half an expansion, again, there may be a portion of people of that that left because of the flying issue, and Blizz's handling of it.
    I never said people DID leave because of flying. I said they might of. Thus, falling under the definition of "people leaving for all sorts of reasons".
    Last edited by CheeseSandwich; 2014-08-25 at 05:01 PM.
    Me to WoW chat : "This ice epidemic is out of control. 3 horses have just tested positive in Victoria. Where do horses find Ice dealers anyway?"
    Random king of the internet : "Probably from a drug mule."

  19. #17219
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I started WoW in Vanilla, and my leveling was always almost entirely solo. Group quests were notable mostly for clogging up my quest log until they were gray, when they were then deleted.

    It was always, from the beginning, possible to level in WoW without grouping. If nothing else, one could solo grind mob kill XP if one ran out of quests.
    The game has and always will be more fun when you play with friends.

    I first leveled up to 60 during vanilla, and questing was way more fun when I asked in the zones I was in if anyone wanted to join me to do these quests (even if i could do them solo). Not only was it more fun, but i built relationships with people as I played with them. I made some great friends. Although the xp per mob killed was lower, it wasnt that much lower, and it actually was about the same because we killed mobs quicker.

    You and people like you are very much the instant gratification crowd.

    All you want is 1) Quick quick quick, instant gratification. 2) Efficiency at all costs even if it means potentially losing out on some great relationships with people, 3) If I could boost all my characters to 90 for free, I would do so.

    The options that Anzaman put up there as an example of completing a quest has pros and cons for both situation. For the first situation, the con is that you might take an extra 30 seconds to 1 minute killing the mobs between you and the quest objective. The pro is that because you killed the mobs to get to the quest objective, you made some gold, found a rare blue that you can sell for even more gold or put it on one of your alts, and maybe you found some crafting mats.

    The con on the second example is that it might take you an extra 30 seconds or so running around the mobs avoiding them to get to the quest objective. The pro (i guess its a pro in the eyes of the instant gratification crowd) is that you didn't have to use any thought or brain power to actually play the game and kill the mobs guarding the quest objective. This is the lazy minded player. The instant gratification player. The player who would rather give up game play for the sake of being the most efficient, quick, whatever.

    Here is the most important part of my reply:

    Blizzard put those mobs / obstacles there for a reason. They aren't there just for pretty scenery. If blizzard truly wanted to remove any and all danger / obstacles from your questing experience, they could just as well have not put mobs there to begin with, or have all mobs despawn the moment you finish a quest requiring you to kill 10 boars. They dont want you flying up, swooping down, killing the 1 mob / mobs for the quest objective, flying back up, flying to the quest giver and turning in. Thats not compelling at all. Thats in fact, fucking stupid gameplay, and blizzard is changing that philosophy.

    Feel free not to sub to the game, but something tells me that most if not all of the whiners on the no flying subject who have "unsubbed" will be back in game when WoD hits.

    I guarantee it.

  20. #17220
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    Bullshit, people leave for all sorts of reason - since the no flying is not even in the game yet I doubt any of those one million have quit over no flying.

    (I however am currently not subscribed because of no new content which is why most people "leave").
    Only time we tell but we do know that pre orders had to be refunded.

    How many of the 1.5 million we will never know. Personally I know 9 that quit do to no flight unless they are lying to me and I doubt that. So we do know some people have already quit do to the removal of flight in WoD how many nobody knows. How many subs the removal of flight is going to cost blizzard again nobody knows..

    I would guess it is going to be significant since WoW is a casual MMO and the only convenient and fast method of travel is being removed. I don't see the casual player base of WoW tolerating that for very long. I could be wrong though only time will tell.

    Want to know what no flight is going to be like... imagine the run up to Ordos but now not just once a week but every time you want to accomplish anything in the open world ... doesn't that sound like fun <rolls eyes>

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