1. #17581
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Yes and you cannot complete storm peaks with a ground mount only as it was designed that way. As a player you chose to use a flying mount to get you to a general area and then used a ground mount to move about in that quest hub until it was time to fly again. Nothing wrong with that, in fact thats cool.
    My point is that they are just required to get to the place not because the quests have any kind of flying built in to them. Some well placed flight paths (and the most common questing hubs in that map have flight paths nearby) would work just the same way. Of course, once we are there we still use flying because flying doesn't have any downside: it's faster, avoids danger, it's cool to fly around... etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Walter II View Post
    Storm Peaks also has the mine field with Surface to Air rockets. Krasarang Wilds Domination Point has surface to air rockets over top of the daily mini-boss. Deepholm drakes in the SW corner of the map could aggro you and dismount you. Halfhill (before the nerf) had Giant Plainshawks in the Valley which you could aggro and be dismounted. The Hardend Shell allows other players to knock you off your mount. Flight over Wintergrasp (while active) dismounts you. The undead gargoyles in Scholozar basin, and the flame drakes will aggro you on a flying mount.

    I am all for not flying for a patch or two, but I am still aware of certain places to avoid flying over. These are all sky mechanics which could have been pushed into every zone, keeping players on their toes. But, Blizz feels it is a waste of time. So for them, flight is all or nothing.
    Everything you named points in the same direction: dismounting the player. I am more inclined to think that at this point it would be more interesting to add gameplay to the sky that doesn't revolve around dismounting. But this is more something to talk for the future.

  2. #17582
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    My point is that they are just required to get to the place not because the quests have any kind of flying built in to them. Some well placed flight paths (and the most common questing hubs in that map have flight paths nearby) would work just the same way. Of course, once we are there we still use flying because flying doesn't have any downside: it's faster, avoids danger, it's cool to fly around... etc.



    Everything you named points in the same direction: dismounting the player. I am more inclined to think that at this point it would be more interesting to add gameplay to the sky that doesn't revolve around dismounting. But this is more something to talk for the future.
    oh indeed if flight paths were in you could easily do it just the same. I just think that the way they did Storm peaks worked well with flying. I think that blizzard could have made changes to flying to make things interesting. Well either way I will enjoy wod just dissapointed in the traveling nerf really as thats all it really is when we look at it.

  3. #17583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    Everything you named points in the same direction: dismounting the player. I am more inclined to think that at this point it would be more interesting to add gameplay to the sky that doesn't revolve around dismounting. But this is more something to talk for the future.
    I'm all for Sky combat, and we know it is already possible. Now if we could just give up a raid tier to make it happen As for Flight Paths, I'd like to be able to talk to a FM, select my mount, and then have the FP use my personal mount, and flight speed to get me to my next stop. I don't mind flight paths, I just prefer my personal mounts. If I could ditch the Gryphon and take my Proto Drake, or even my Swift Flight Form, that would certainly change my overall view on flight paths.

  4. #17584
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter II View Post
    I'm all for Sky combat, and we know it is already possible. Now if we could just give up a raid tier to make it happen As for Flight Paths, I'd like to be able to talk to a FM, select my mount, and then have the FP use my personal mount, and flight speed to get me to my next stop. I don't mind flight paths, I just prefer my personal mounts. If I could ditch the Gryphon and take my Proto Drake, or even my Swift Flight Form, that would certainly change my overall view on flight paths.
    We are talking about Blizzard... fully implementing sky combat will cost us a whole expansion. In my mind, we are talking about some generic abilities depending on the type of mount mixed up with some special class abilities. But hey, that's just me going wild

    As for flight paths i don't like that they are the only option. As i suggested in other thread: we have inns, we have the hearthstone concept... we already have the elements to make limited instant transport to any inn you have unlocked and an apropiate CD.

  5. #17585
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    As for flying mounts not being in the universe..... just dont get some people. You're still in the game world and can choose to participate in it.
    Exactly that is the problem. You can CHOSE to interact. Limited to groundmounts, you HAVE to interact.

    On a flight path you're more like the enterprise than being on a flying mount as you cannot interact with the world.
    Noone is forcing you to use a flight-path. Besides, if you are already set on "I wanna go there" then why would you want to interrupt? And please dont pull the "I could see a raremob!" - Pseudo-Argument. You are not entitled to anything, just because you see it. Mark the location, come back later. If someone else is there first, tough luck. WoW should be about decisions, not endless inconsequence.
    Still all No flying does to me is slow down my travel options in the over world. This makes me less likely to want to farm materials and very unlikely to want to do any over world content.
    With all due respect, but that's your problem. If you cannot be asked to play a game, unless it offers you the option to minimize the actual interaction with it, then I have to ask, why you play said game in the first place.

    Its not a huge deal as my most liked content does not require flying (dungeons and raids) So I will play queue craft more likely from my Garrison which I hope will be a good feature and a nice place to semi afk in
    As most people do already. And part of the reason why most people play queuecraft, is because any other form of content is trivialized by flying. Rep dailys? Quickly done on flying mount. Collecting mats for pots? Gimme 10 minutes. Going out in the world to do some PvP? Why, everyone will just fly away.

  6. #17586
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorzzara View Post
    Exactly that is the problem. You can CHOSE to interact. Limited to groundmounts, you HAVE to interact.

    Noone is forcing you to use a flight-path. Besides, if you are already set on "I wanna go there" then why would you want to interrupt? And please dont pull the "I could see a raremob!" - Pseudo-Argument. You are not entitled to anything, just because you see it. Mark the location, come back later. If someone else is there first, tough luck. WoW should be about decisions, not endless inconsequence.

    With all due respect, but that's your problem. If you cannot be asked to play a game, unless it offers you the option to minimize the actual interaction with it, then I have to ask, why you play said game in the first place.


    As most people do already. And part of the reason why most people play queuecraft, is because any other form of content is trivialized by flying. Rep dailys? Quickly done on flying mount. Collecting mats for pots? Gimme 10 minutes. Going out in the world to do some PvP? Why, everyone will just fly away.
    Wow every argument you made contradicted your own argument from the previous argument. "I want choice." "Too bad." "It's about choice."

  7. #17587
    Quote Originally Posted by Sorzzara View Post
    Exactly that is the problem. You can CHOSE to interact. Limited to groundmounts, you HAVE to interact.

    Noone is forcing you to use a flight-path. Besides, if you are already set on "I wanna go there" then why would you want to interrupt? And please dont pull the "I could see a raremob!" - Pseudo-Argument. You are not entitled to anything, just because you see it. Mark the location, come back later. If someone else is there first, tough luck. WoW should be about decisions, not endless inconsequence.

    With all due respect, but that's your problem. If you cannot be asked to play a game, unless it offers you the option to minimize the actual interaction with it, then I have to ask, why you play said game in the first place.


    As most people do already. And part of the reason why most people play queuecraft, is because any other form of content is trivialized by flying. Rep dailys? Quickly done on flying mount. Collecting mats for pots? Gimme 10 minutes. Going out in the world to do some PvP? Why, everyone will just fly away.
    So forcing interaction is better than choosing to interact? Well I would disagree with you there.

    Your next paragraph is full of irony when people said "no one is forcing you to use a flying mount" then you use the same argument regarding flight paths. Flight paths are quicker than using a ground mount in most cases and in effect are a form of loading screen. As I have said and what you seem to over looked, is that no flying is a minor annoyance to me. I only go out into the over world for mining/herb gathering as there is no really good max level open world content in wow. Fuck daily quests doing the 5.1 quests was bad enough never again. As for the silly argument of "if you cannot be arsed to played the game (hint its not asked) then why do you continue to play?" I am arsed to play the game. I enjoy raiding and dungeons thats the end game content and the majority of the patch budget goes on said content. Its what i've always enjoyed. I continue to play that.

    People do LFD etc as you get a group formed for you and get taken to the dungeon/battle ground. No more sitting in trade asking for x roles/people and then going to said place only to find people want summoning delaying your dungeon run etc. Flying has 0 to do with that content. Daily quests are possibly the worst content type for Max level players, mat farming I usually spend an hour doing on a weekend and if im slower at doing it, its just a bit more of a pain to do but not that huge a deal. As for PVP, World PVP got killed by battle grounds all flying did was kick it while it was on the floor gasping for air.

  8. #17588
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabblexthree View Post
    Wow every argument you made contradicted your own argument from the previous argument. "I want choice." "Too bad." "It's about choice."
    Not at all. He is saying that choice is good in that you need to actually make decisions. The entitles fliers want the 'choice' to fly as an excuse to do whatever they want.

  9. #17589
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Not at all. He is saying that choice is good in that you need to actually make decisions. The entitles fliers want the 'choice' to fly as an excuse to do whatever they want.
    Yes, but "just don't do it, no one is forcing you" can't be the answer for everything. Choice is good when there is an actual choice to be made, pros and cons for every option and something to think about. This reasoning is why removing flying is OK, but it's also the reasoning why flight paths are bad.

  10. #17590
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    *snip* As for PVP, World PVP got killed by battle grounds all flying did was kick it while it was on the floor gasping for air.
    I agree with the majority of your post, and I would ad that flying has never actually done any content for anyone. No one can complete any task while sitting on their flying mount, flying is used to take us to content, where we land, dismount, and do that content.

    As for WPvP, I have started to really think how flying actually 'hurt' it in MoP, if at all. Southern KW was fully designed for WPvP, with PvP targets, rewards and PvP quests.
    IoT had a full set of PvP quests that rewarded CP over the RBG limit or VP, as well as a plethora of world boss mobs that would invite pvp while people waited for them to spawn.
    TI had the sensor and the same boss waiting pvp element.
    IoG had epic PvP battles on my PvE server trying to get a Oondasta tag.
    Plus the ability to get a posse together, or go solo, and camp people at the isolated pvp vendors, put out on the sticks away from the major hubs to promote wpvp.
    Or mix it up at the Shrines.
    Warbringers were also good places for skirmishes while waiting for spawns.
    *Plus people are always dueling outside Org and SW, they are pretty fun places for WPvP, guerrilla style.

    All of these WPvP things were available as viable WPvP options in an overworld that included flight. I just don't get how the lack of WPvP is really a gripe with flying, when the options for it in a world with flight are plenty.

    *Edit
    Last edited by CheeseSandwich; 2014-09-03 at 04:15 PM.
    "These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "

  11. #17591
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    Yes, but "just don't do it, no one is forcing you" can't be the answer for everything. Choice is good when there is an actual choice to be made, pros and cons for every option and something to think about. This reasoning is why removing flying is OK, but it's also the reasoning why flight paths are bad.
    Yea I don't think 'just don't take flight paths' is a valid response. But I also think the original statement that flight paths remove you more than flying mounts is ridiculous. Mounts let you choose your starting and finishing position and allow you to detach from the world indefinitely. Flight paths have set starting and ending positions and return you back to the ground. I really can't put it any simpler than that for people who can't see how flight paths keep you in the world better than mounts.

  12. #17592
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Yea I don't think 'just don't take flight paths' is a valid response. But I also think the original statement that flight paths remove you more than flying mounts is ridiculous. Mounts let you choose your starting and finishing position and allow you to detach from the world indefinitely. Flight paths have set starting and ending positions and return you back to the ground. I really can't put it any simpler than that for people who can't see how flight paths keep you in the world better than mounts.
    Flight paths are crap and have been since Vanilla. Why do I need to go to Ironforge in order to get to Stormwind when I am south of Ironforge?

  13. #17593
    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    I agree with the majority of your post, and I would ad that flying has never actually done any content for anyone. No one can complete any task while sitting on their flying mount, flying is used to take us to content, where we land, dismount, and do that content.

    As for WPvP, I have started to really think how flying actually 'hurt' it in MoP, if at all. Southern KW was fully designed for WPvP, with PvP targets, rewards and PvP quests.
    IoT had a full set of PvP quests that rewarded CP over the RBG limit or VP, as well as a plethora of world boss mobs that would invite pvp while people waited for them to spawn.
    TI had the sensor and the same boss waiting pvp element.
    IoG had epic PvP battles on my PvE server trying to get a Oondasta tag.
    Plus the ability to get a posse together, or go solo, and camp people at the isolated pvp vendors, put out on the sticks away from the major hubs to promote wpvp.
    Or mix it up at the Shrines.
    Warbringers were also good places for skirmishes while waiting for spawns.
    *Plus people are always dueling outside Org and SW, they are pretty fun places for WPvP, guerrilla style.

    All of these WPvP things were available as viable WPvP options in an overworld that included flight. I just don't get how the lack of WPvP is really a gripe with flying, when the options for it in a world with flight are plenty.

    *Edit
    Indeed, there have been attempts to get WPVP going. If memory servers Wintergrasp was great when I did it (not a huge PVP person anymore but I did enjoy it). Thanks for the points on mops wpvp I actually forgot about Isle of giants XD only been to that place a few times! May have to take another visit. As for WPVP it self I think its pretty much a novel thing now and adding a zone for it and to try and promote it with good rewards is a nice idea. How it competes with or along side BGs remains to be seen still (WG I think did just fine and would prefer a similar model)

  14. #17594
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Yea I don't think 'just don't take flight paths' is a valid response. But I also think the original statement that flight paths remove you more than flying mounts is ridiculous. Mounts let you choose your starting and finishing position and allow you to detach from the world indefinitely. Flight paths have set starting and ending positions and return you back to the ground. I really can't put it any simpler than that for people who can't see how flight paths keep you in the world better than mounts.
    Flight paths have 2 points, A and B. Where as flight could have multiple points, so someone could go from A to B(mine that node!) to C(help that lowbie!) to D(kill that rare!) to E(that looks interesting!) to F(another rare!) etc... to finally P, land at quest hub, pick up quests on ground, do quests on ground.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Indeed, there have been attempts to get WPVP going. If memory servers Wintergrasp was great when I did it (not a huge PVP person anymore but I did enjoy it). Thanks for the points on mops wpvp I actually forgot about Isle of giants XD only been to that place a few times! May have to take another visit. As for WPVP it self I think its pretty much a novel thing now and adding a zone for it and to try and promote it with good rewards is a nice idea. How it competes with or along side BGs remains to be seen still (WG I think did just fine and would prefer a similar model)
    WG was great, sometimes truly epic battles. Also fun to snipe from the walls when your side had lost, too, haha.

    I got intimate with IoG while doing the bone grind, so it is kinda hard to erase from my mind..I mean forget :P
    "These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "

  15. #17595
    Quote Originally Posted by CheeseSandwich View Post
    Flight paths have 2 points, A and B. Where as flight could have multiple points, so someone could go from A to B(mine that node!) to C(help that lowbie!) to D(kill that rare!) to E(that looks interesting!) to F(another rare!) etc... to finally P, land at quest hub, pick up quests on ground, do quests on ground.

    - - - Updated - - -



    WG was great, sometimes truly epic battles. Also fun to snipe from the walls when your side had lost, too, haha.

    I got intimate with IoG while doing the bone grind, so it is kinda hard to erase from my mind..I mean forget :P
    Yeh WG for me was a blast when you finally broke the walls down and the zerg began. I'd certainly welcome more things like that in the future if its done well. I used to love old AV too it was a reason I made a hunter for PVP only while my shaman did raids.

  16. #17596
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    Flying hurts immersion? They why keep flight paths in the game then?

    The bigger problem is the landscape. Entire habitats separated by a ugly range of random half-assed barren mountains. I think that is the real "immersion" killing problem here. One moment I am running around a tundra/desert, the next moment I am in a humid dino land.

    Sorry but immersion died the moment I leveled to 30 and stepped into STV from duskwood.

  17. #17597
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Yea I don't think 'just don't take flight paths' is a valid response. But I also think the original statement that flight paths remove you more than flying mounts is ridiculous. Mounts let you choose your starting and finishing position and allow you to detach from the world indefinitely. Flight paths have set starting and ending positions and return you back to the ground. I really can't put it any simpler than that for people who can't see how flight paths keep you in the world better than mounts.
    Both flight paths and flying share the same problems, i don't think is worth discussing about them to be honest. The way i see it:
    Flying gives the option to avoid playing, but flight path negates the player the option to play.

  18. #17598
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabblexthree View Post
    Flight paths are crap and have been since Vanilla. Why do I need to go to Ironforge in order to get to Stormwind when I am south of Ironforge?
    Because Blizzard is too lazy to actualy incorporate flying in their design. They could easily make flying risk/reward matter of business instead of just outright banning it. I really don't understand them any more. Instead of tackling the challenge, they remove it. That in my opinion leads only to poorer gameplay.

  19. #17599
    Quote Originally Posted by zEmini View Post
    Flying hurts immersion? They why keep flight paths in the game then?

    The bigger problem is the landscape. Entire habitats separated by a ugly range of random half-assed barren mountains. I think that is the real "immersion" killing problem here. One moment I am running around a tundra/desert, the next moment I am in a humid dino land.

    Sorry but immersion died the moment I leveled to 30 and stepped into STV from duskwood.
    To that end, in all honesty, as a pro flight person, I really wouldn't mind a time limit on flight/fatigue bar. 5 mins of flight, 10 mins of rest, or w/e. It would make it more of a choice to use it, so if we were at the top of zone A and wanted to get to the bottom of zone B, but there was a mountain range in the way, we could use our max level flying power to get over that obstacle, rather than ride around through stuff that potentially trivial.
    "These so called speed humps are a joke. If anything, they slow you down. "

  20. #17600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    We are talking about Blizzard... fully implementing sky combat will cost us a whole expansion. In my mind, we are talking about some generic abilities depending on the type of mount mixed up with some special class abilities. But hey, that's just me going wild

    As for flight paths i don't like that they are the only option. As i suggested in other thread: we have inns, we have the hearthstone concept... we already have the elements to make limited instant transport to any inn you have unlocked and an apropiate CD.
    We already have the flight fights in Scholozar, Howling Fjord, Uldum, and the opening sequence in MoP. We use Drakes to soften up mobs in Grim Batol, and to bring down the bad guys in Occulus. Aerial combat is absolutely possible. Just need to add attacks to the mounts. As for the instant transport, I think drawing the lines with mage portals seems about right. If we could scroll time after time (or hearth), it would feel more like Diablo. Then again, if they added something outside of the Scroll of Recall (for Scribes), I would not turn it down, as long as it came with a CD as well, and was specific to another in.

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