Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[zerocarbs]

just flying there is hardly "exploring"

How is it not?

... because it won't be fun when someone chooses to move over 200% faster than me and kills the rare before I can get there in WoD?

So now we're describing scenarios where we're constantly in a race with someone else? I'm not buying it.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm still going to say if flying mounts are so required for the game to function, then why have they not been added to dungeons/raids/scenarios/BGs?

Instanced areas are a completely different beast.

[Ghostile]

How is it not?

It's as much exploring as watching a nature document is.

[Raeln]

So now we're describing scenarios where we're constantly in a race with someone else? I'm not buying it.

It would be a very real scenario right now on Timeless Isle if flying was allowed there.

Instanced areas are a completely different beast.

Why? If flying mounts are so required for travel in the open world, then why are they suddenly unimportant in dungeons/raids/scenarios/BGs?

[zerocarbs]

It would be a very real scenario right now on Timeless Isle if flying was allowed there.

Setting aside the issues I have with TI, that place is a small island. Not comparable to an entire continent.

Why? If flying mounts are so required for convenience in the open world, then why are they suddenly unimportant in dungeons/raids/scenarios/BGs?

Instanced zones have different philosophy with objectives being gated by trash.

[BlizzardApologist]

just flying there is hardly "exploring"

Just because it follows the Z axis on top of X and Y doesn't make it any less exploring. There's a bunch of things that can be found with flying mounts which can't be found with ground.

[Ghostile]

Just because it follows the Z axis on top of X and Y doesn't make it any less exploring. There's a bunch of things that can be found with flying mounts which can't be found with ground.

See my last post.

[BlizzardApologist]

See my last post.

That's not an argument it's just a bad analogy.

[Raeln]

Setting aside the issues I have with TI, that place is a small island. Not comparable to an entire continent.

Nonetheless, Blizzard has already alluded to Timeless Isle mechanics, rares, events being strung all throughout WoD.

Flying mounts would be quite an advantage in reaching those events over ground mounts.

Instanced zones have different philosophy with objectives being gated by trash.

Not really. Every single argument that has been made for and against flying mounts in the open world could apply to instanced zones. The content could be made to support flying mounts in that they could act in a similar way to stealth groups. The content could also be made to net flying players to the ground or even have air battles. Weather could be implemented or even traps.

I have been left to wonder just why we neglect some of the tools in our bag (like flying mounts) when we approach some of these instanced zones - specifically SoO. I have flown into Orgrimmar thousands of times, yet just because I join an SoO raid, suddenly my flight license is revoked? Suddenly I am to assume that there is some large air guard preventing me from flying in to the pathetically guarded Orgimmar?

Sorry, but if flying mounts are good for the open world - well, they should be designed around (the good and bad) everywhere else.

[Marc2001]

Flying from point to point is boring, i fail to see why you would stop playing just because of that. On ground mount's you actually need to explore not just fly to the town you need than to the quest you need skipping everything on the way. But than again maybe it's people like you that are complaining about everything that's the least bit difficult in WoW these days.

[zerocarbs]

You still don't need to fly back and forth the whole continent all the time.

That would certainly depend on what you were doing.

I see this trend emerging with one group telling another group how to enjoy the game and it never ends well.

- - - Updated - - -

Nonetheless, Blizzard has already alluded to Timeless Isle mechanics, rares, events being strung all throughout WoD.

And I sincerely hope the 'events' in WoD are more compelling than any of the crap they gave us on TI.

[Orby]

I would personally love this, as flying mounts did kind of ruin the size and scape of WoW to begin with, I was one of the few people at the time who didn't want flying mounts in game before they were announced.

There was more of a reason to explore rather than hoping on a flying mount and flying there which while convenient, sucked the life out of what was one of the main things about what MMO's should be.

Personally I would love it, if blizzard didn't make flying mounts so needed in other zones and expansions I would say get rid of them alt together.

But alas the nerd rage on this forum will reach critical levels... and I am being very selfish so meh

[zerocarbs]

You still don't need to fly back and forth the whole continent all the time.

To be more specific..., crossing a continent I usually go afk on a fp. If crossing a zone then I manually fly there. Crossing zones on the ground is going to lose its novelty after most people reach 100 I believe.

[Marc2001]

Nonetheless, Blizzard has already alluded to Timeless Isle mechanics, rares, events being strung all throughout WoD.

Flying mounts would be quite an advantage in reaching those events over ground mounts.



Not really. Every single argument that has been made for and against flying mounts in the open world could apply to instanced zones. The content could be made to support flying mounts in that they could act in a similar way to stealth groups. The content could also be made to net flying players to the ground or even have air battles. Weather could be implemented or even traps.

I have been left to wonder just why we neglect some of the tools in our bag (like flying mounts) when we approach some of these instanced zones - specifically SoO. I have flown into Orgrimmar thousands of times, yet just because I join an SoO raid, suddenly my flight license is revoked? Suddenly I am to assume that there is some large air guard preventing me from flying in to the pathetically guarded Orgimmar?

Sorry, but if flying mounts are good for the open world - well, they should be designed around (the good and bad) everywhere else.

Kinda hard to design a raid where you can skip trash and bosses wouldn't you say?

[Luko]

This "forced exploration" approach some of you are using is sincerely creeping me the fuck out.

If someone wants to explore, they'll explore. In game. Right now. With or without flying. What some of you weirdos are proposing is a forced perspective. "Explore my way or not at all!"

I have zero problem with no flying mounts. I'll still get from point A to point B and I'm not in any sort of rush, but the "even playing ground" vibe in this thread is petty and a little scary.

[zerocarbs]

Flying from point to point is boring, i fail to see why you would stop playing just because of that. On ground mount's you actually need to explore not just fly to the town you need than to the quest you need skipping everything on the way. But than again maybe it's people like you that are complaining about everything that's the least bit difficult in WoW these days.

Nothing difficult about ground travel through valley of four winds. Just incredibly boring.

[Bender]

Flying from point to point is boring, i fail to see why you would stop playing just because of that. On ground mount's you actually need to explore not just fly to the town you need than to the quest you need skipping everything on the way. But than again maybe it's people like you that are complaining about everything that's the least bit difficult in WoW these days.

I like exploring on my flying mount. If I'm restricted to ground I don't do any exploring at all because I think it sucks ass and I can spend my time better. It's a matter of perspective, the difference is that you who like ground mounts can explore that way today. What you're proposing is that your way is the better way and should also be the only way, those of us who think differently should just go fuck ourselves apparently.

[Gusie]

People talk so much about nostalgia, so blizzard is trying to bring that old feeling back?

[Perkunas]

Inconvenience does not foster community. Ask SWTOR how that went for them.

To be fair... Star Wars had deeper issues. The engine itself drove more people away than anything with how shitty and slow the combat was. Let's not even get into the lack of mods and macros and for that matter modern day features. It was like playing EQ circa 1999 in space with talking and lightsabers.

With regard to LFD the best way to ween people off of it is to incentivize natural groups over random groups. Have natural groups provide more XP, gold, and additional loot drops vs LFD. As it stands they are bribing you to use a tool of convenience and it makes the natural group which is much harder to assemble typically extinct. It's all about finding ways to make convenient things into an actual choice and not the alpha option all the time for anybody who's not a moron.

[Awbee]

It's as much exploring as watching a nature document is.

No, it's as much exploring as flying over an area with a helicopter is. And then landing somewhere and walking around, and getting back up in your helicopter. Sure it's not quite as "savage" as going into the jungle and fighting tigers with a machete, but it's certainly still exploration.

It would be a very real scenario right now on Timeless Isle if flying was allowed there.

If flying was allowed on TI, I might hang out there more. My experience with TI are as follows:

I hit 90 on a new character, hop over to TI. I use an addon to die myself from chest to chest. I grab a chest, get attacked by a mob, try to lose aggro, get killed, respawn, run to the next chest, die, respawn, and so on. At the end, my equip is mostly broke, but I can replace it with the new items I've got. I've gotten smart enough now to unequip my weapons before I go to TI, so they don't take damage from all the dying.

Once I'm done, I never go to that place again, until I hit 90 on the next character.

Is that fun? Not really. TI has some good ideas ("events", and mobs that multiple people can tag), but the execution is pretty terrible imo. At low gear levels, everything on the isle kills you pretty much instantly. At high gear levels, you can apparently solo everything. Rare mobs die within seconds, so you have to be lucky to catch one.


It's a lot like GW2's Orr or Southsun Cove, only worse. Because in GW2, you need other people to complete the events, so you'll actually write in map chat "event X going on here, please help". Plus the events go on quite a bit longer, so there's a chance you'll actually be able to partake and not miss out. Plus GW2 has instant teleportation, so you can relatively easily get to the place the event is happening.

[Manabomb]

This "forced exploration" approach some of you are using is sincerely creeping me the fuck out.

If someone wants to explore, they'll explore. In game. Right now. With or without flying. What some of you weirdos are proposing is a forced perspective. "Explore my way or not at all!"

I have zero problem with no flying mounts. I'll still get from point A to point B and I'm not in any sort of rush, but the "even playing ground" vibe in this thread is petty and a little scary.

It's honestly terrifying how self entitled both parties feel in this thread, and how little compromise either is giving. The one side is convinced flying is the single worst thing to ever happen in this game while the other side disagrees completely in every way possible. I'd just like a bit more compromise here, ideas that can make flying a much more interesting questing/exploration tool/mechanic rather than a convenience that becomes over-glorified by being gated.

The amount of ideas I've pumped into these threads about systems of flying that aren't as stupid as "remove flying nao" or "Flying 4eva" range about 8 or 9. Yet still I get someone from either side going all man hunter on me picking apart a post and telling me why I'm wrong with pure conjecture.