1. #6841
    Elemental Lord Mall Security's Avatar
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    Lots of people really convinced it's great to have a Gaming corporation decide what is best for them and FUN, LOL!

  2. #6842
    Won't happen. To many people want it, and we know Blizz caters.

  3. #6843
    Banned -Superman-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    You've sure turned around from a few days ago. I might actually pay more attention to this thread
    Well, truth be told, I've been trying to change my perspective. I understand everyone has an opinion, and none of our opinions will really change anything in the game. Even presenting ground-breaking ideas may not suffice. So, rather than getting worked up over a game still in Alpha, let alone live production, I too, will wait and see. I can only hope that in 6.1, there is a questline which lets me unlock flying. If not, I will need to move on.

    No game should cause frustration. I will take a watch and wait stance, and hope for the best in 6.1. I want to experience the new content from the air, as a Storm Crow. But, should Blizz decide they would rather scrap flight, than balance it, it will likely be my time to go. I don't want to invest more time and money into a game that removes rather than repairs. I understand flight is overpowered in a great many aspects, but seeing it go is not something I want to play through. I'm sure 6.0 and 6.05 will be just fine though and give me a chance to play to 100 and experience Garrisons.

  4. #6844
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    In all fairness, and honesty, you have been on the defensive for a few pages, and there has been a lot of passive aggressive behavior. I recognize it, because I've used it myself. Nothing against you personally, but now this sounds less like an explanation and more like martyring. I am a huge proponent of flying. I don't want it modified, or removed. BUT, in the interest of calm discussion, I am willing to view the story from the other side and even offer up examples of balancing flying mounts, rather than blanketly removing them. Not because I want them nerfed, but because I DON'T want them taken away fully. The easiest way to prove it is to find a calm resolution that benefits everyone.

    Everyone in this thread is on edge, not just you. So do not take this personally. But if you want to be heard, you have to do your own fair share of listening
    The way you read my posts might sound like I am angry, or whatever, to you, but I can assure you that I am not on edge or angry. I repeatedly asked someone to continue the conversation, but they kept wanting to go around in circles. How do you communicate with someone that isn't clear, and doesn't even want to continue a discussion?

    I am in a thread discussing the topic not hoping to change the topic to something like happy alternatives for everyone. I am willing discuss that topic, but in another thread.

    I do appreciate you trying to calm people, but I am not the one needing to be calmed.
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyray View Post
    what? you can knock people off ground mounts with auto attack.

  5. #6845
    Banned -Superman-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    The way you read my posts might sound like I am angry, or whatever, to you, but I can assure you that I am not on edge or angry. I repeatedly asked someone to continue the conversation, but they kept wanting to go around in circles. How do you communicate with someone that isn't clear, and doesn't even want to continue a discussion?

    I am in a thread discussing the topic not hoping to change the topic to something like happy alternatives for everyone. I am willing discuss that topic, but in another thread.

    I do appreciate you trying to calm people, but I am not the one needing to be calmed.
    I communicated with this person just fine for 2 full pages. I'm not entirely sure why there is a disconnect, but if it is an issue, it may just be necessary to agree to disagree, and carry on the discussion with other posters. The fewer back and forth battles we have, the more earnest discussion seems to appear.

  6. #6846
    Flying was a giant money sink. Flying on azeroth diluted the game if you want my opinion.

    Good riddance. Hopefully they will add battle chests not just in random dungeons now.

  7. #6847
    Quote Originally Posted by Rilos View Post
    Flying was a giant money sink. Flying on azeroth diluted the game if you want my opinion.

    Good riddance. Hopefully they will add battle chests not just in random dungeons now.
    They've said the whole of Draenor is gonna be a bit like the Timeless Isle with random loots / rares / events / etc. So, you got your wish already.
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  8. #6848
    Quote Originally Posted by Rilos View Post
    Good riddance. Hopefully they will add battle chests not just in random dungeons now.
    MoP had lore objects, BOA loot, and high value vendor loot scattered across the continent.

  9. #6849
    Quote Originally Posted by Stop Pretendingq View Post
    Won't happen. To many people want it, and we know Blizz caters.
    No doubt about that. The cash shop would suffer and blizzard is doing all they can to expand that. Hell, they just hired new people to expand it.

    However, no flying at max level and limiting it to how blizzard is doing it creates an expansion that I cant support with $50 plus a sub fee. The best way to show that is to not support blizzard. Not purchase their game and tell them so on their forums and other well read places like here.

    There have been better reasons to leave in flying and work with it through better content design in this thread than anything we have heard from blizzard but it seems blizzard just doesn't want to put in that effort.

    Thats why were getting an expansion that seems to be going backwards in design VS forwards. An entire expansion based on nostalgia and thats not a good thing.
    Last edited by quras; 2014-04-24 at 02:26 AM.

  10. #6850
    Quote Originally Posted by Rankin View Post
    MoP had lore objects, BOA loot, and high value vendor loot scattered across the continent.
    I have a feeling it will have quite a bit of stuff like the red flying cloud mount as well: http://wowhead.com/item=89363 it would have been quite an ordeal to get without flying but is trivial with it.

  11. #6851
    Quote Originally Posted by yeryerdude View Post
    I have a feeling it will have quite a bit of stuff like the red flying cloud mount as well: http://wowhead.com/item=89363 it would have been quite an ordeal to get without flying but is trivial with it.
    I'd argue that looking up the locations makes stuff like that more trivial than being able to fly around.

  12. #6852
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    No doubt about that. The cash shop would suffer and blizzard is doing all they can to expand that. Hell, they just hired new people to expand it.

    However, no flying at max level and limiting it to how blizzard is doing it creates an expansion that I cant support with $50 plus a sub fee. The best way to show that is to not support blizzard. Not purchase their game and tell them so on their forums and other well read places like here.

    There have been better reasons to leave in flying and work with it through better content design in this thread than anything we have heard from blizzard but it seems blizzard just doesn't want to put in that effort.

    Thats why were getting an expansion that seems to be going backwards in design VS forwards. An entire expansion based on nostalgia and thats not a good thing.
    You can't support using a ground mount or taking fast flight paths because it might take another 1-2min in some situations? Yeah you'll be ok. Think your over exaggerating a little, lets dip back to reality and a sane train of thought. And i wouldn't count on Blizzard listening to fanatical posts like this with no constructive feedback to boot.

    Flying breaks the game moving forward on future WoW endeavors. Why try to throw 5 band-aids on it when the best solution is it's removal. Flying isn't a need, it's a want..And we've had them for awhile now and the thought of losing it gives you withdrawals...Pretty sure you'll live.

    A lot of changes being made in WoD is most defiantly a step forwards in design. A lot of going back to the foundations what made this game a success to begin with.
    Last edited by DarkArchon; 2014-04-24 at 03:17 AM.

  13. #6853
    Well, there you have it. Regression is progress. Black is white. We have always been at war with Eastasia.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  14. #6854
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArchon View Post
    You can't support using a ground mount or taking fast flight paths because it might take another 1-2min in some situations? Yeah you'll be ok. Think your over exaggerating a little, lets dip back to reality and a sane train of thought. And i wouldn't count on Blizzard listening to fanatical posts like this with no constructive feedback to boot.

    Flying breaks the game moving forward on future WoW endeavors. Why try to throw 5 band-aids on it when the best solution is it's removal. Flying isn't a need, it's a want..And we've had them for awhile now and the thought of losing it gives you withdrawals...Pretty sure you'll live.

    A lot of changes being made in WoD is most defiantly a step forwards in design. A lot of going back to the foundations what made this game a success to begin with.
    A game in general is a want, not a need - therefore if the game isn't fun, I don't need to play it and I don't need to give Blizzard any money. No, I won't pay for a game experience that doesn't appeal to me. I have always found WoW very irritating without flight. I tolerated it for the time I played vanilla because I didn't know anything different. Now that I know how much better it can be for me, I won't deal with regression back to crappy design. Instead, I will just not play the game at all for as long as removing or severely restricting flying is Blizzard's design goal. I can live perfectly fine without WoW, I haven't played in three months and took a break of over a year in the past as well, so why spend any time or money if I think it looks like crap going forward?

  15. #6855
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArchon View Post
    Flying breaks the game moving forward on future WoW endeavors. Why try to throw 5 band-aids on it when the best solution is it's removal. Flying isn't a need, it's a want..And we've had them for awhile now and the thought of losing it gives you withdrawals...Pretty sure you'll live.
    Flying only breaks the game because they refuse to design around flying. They'd rather drop us on a railroad through content so we don't break things by bypassing boring content.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArchon View Post
    A lot of changes being made in WoD is most defiantly a step forwards in design. A lot of going back to the foundations what made this game a success to begin with.
    The highest point for WoW was after they added flying. But flying wasn't the only thing that made WoW so popular. Just like removing it won't suddenly make the game more popular again.

  16. #6856
    Quote Originally Posted by quras View Post
    Thats why were getting an expansion that seems to be going backwards in design VS forwards. An entire expansion based on nostalgia and thats not a good thing.
    Nope nope nope nope nope

    Im a design student and i love game design and the removal of flying mounts is forward not backwards.

    Why? Because "design wise" for the first time in years the players will be playing content designed by the developers while with flying mounts everything developed by the creative team can be skipped (unless placed inside a cave...fun).
    If a bridge is broken you will have to go around or find the way to make across. (ex: Timeless Isle Flame Chest)
    If you have to jump from rock to rock in a river filled with sharks to get to the other side, you will feel the gameplay.
    If you are playing in a jungle with pit traps all over the place, same thing.

    With flying mounts EVERYTHING design wise can be skiped. So what im saying is:
    Removal of flying mounts = more space for creativity in gameplay
    Last edited by Shadowpunkz; 2014-04-24 at 06:10 AM.

  17. #6857
    Quote Originally Posted by rebecca191 View Post
    A game in general is a want, not a need - therefore if the game isn't fun, I don't need to play it and I don't need to give Blizzard any money. No, I won't pay for a game experience that doesn't appeal to me. I have always found WoW very irritating without flight. I tolerated it for the time I played vanilla because I didn't know anything different. Now that I know how much better it can be for me, I won't deal with regression back to crappy design. Instead, I will just not play the game at all for as long as removing or severely restricting flying is Blizzard's design goal. I can live perfectly fine without WoW, I haven't played in three months and took a break of over a year in the past as well, so why spend any time or money if I think it looks like crap going forward?
    See now.. You toke what i said and twisted the meaning and turned it into a broader view therefore out of context. Nice effort tho. It's not the same thing.

    Flying takes all your fun away? And to the point you wouldn't even play the game? That's pretty sad. If that is indeed the case you can't be that much of a WoW fan...Then you make the point saying 'doesn't appeal to me'...Flying is the only thing that appeals to you lol? Ummmm.. Ok then.

    Well i guess take care then *wave*

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rankin View Post
    Flying only breaks the game because they refuse to design around flying. They'd rather drop us on a railroad through content so we don't break things by bypassing boring content.


    The highest point for WoW was after they added flying. But flying wasn't the only thing that made WoW so popular. Just like removing it won't suddenly make the game more popular again.
    Yeah and i don't blame them. The boring content holds no water...The alternative is hitting auto fly on your mount so don't even try to make up reasons. It's because you want the convenience and easy street.

    It was a high point because it was new and everyone was excited and it didn't have none of the issues at the time. Was like trying cocaine for the first time, we were all happy...Fast forward many years later and now it's suffering the backlash and side effects.
    Last edited by DarkArchon; 2014-04-24 at 06:42 AM.

  18. #6858
    Brewmaster Serenais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    Nope nope nope nope nope

    Im a design student and i love game design and the removal of flying mounts is forward not backwards.

    Why? Because "design wise" for the first time in years the players will be playing content designed by the developers while with flying mounts everything developed by the creative team can be skipped (unless placed inside a cave...fun).
    If a bridge is broken you will have to go around or find the way to make across. (ex: Timeless Isle Flame Chest)
    If you have to jump from rock to rock in a river filled with sharks to get to the other side, you will feel the gameplay.
    If you are playing in a jungle with pit traps all over the place, same thing.

    With flying mounts EVERYTHING design wise can be skiped. So what im saying is:
    Removal of flying mounts = more space for creativity in gameplay
    I would care to disagree. Something that tends to be forgotten - even though it gets repeated in this and other threads - is that being forced into the same content again and again promotes stereotype. Promoting stereotype is one of the worst game design choices one can make, they shorten the lifespan of the game, simply because stereotype isn't fun. Flying allows to bypass already "consumed" content, allowing to keep the player at their gameplay interest, not at what used to be a gameplay interest. If a bridge is broken, finding a route around is fun the first time. The thirtieth time having to go around the lake will be annoying, not fun. Having to jump over rocks because there's danger below to get to the other side is fun the first time. The thirtieth time, it's annoying, especially if it still results in death (to give you a direct gameplay example, GW2 includes jumping puzzles. I do not know of anyone who would do a jumping puzzle after the first completion for any other result than the daily/monthly achievement reward, and even then they choose the jumping puzzles that take the least effort). If you are going over pit traps, it is fun the first time. Having to go through that the thirtieth time is annoying, not fun. In all three cases, what used to be the gameplay focus, overtime becomes a hurdle keeping the player from the gameplay focus. It was the reason why gated dailies in MoP were met with disdain - doing Golden Lotus dailies, even though the Vale of Eternal Blossoms was designed really well, was simply not fun the second month in before other factions (and more dailies) were unlocked, thus leading to the daily quest fiasco.
    Hence why many people state that keeping flying at the top level - which, bar Vanilla and Cataclysm, was the current model until now - seems the best way to go. Doing otherwise means one of two extremes - flying all the way means skipped content (though, one might ask WHY players skip the content first before finding a way how to stop it), no flying at all means being forced into content already rendered obsolete. There are other things that no flying means, one of them being forcing a flat environment topology. Considering that we are told that there's a sentient flying race in Draenor, a flat topology doesn't make any sense. Put in how much WoW is centered around combat and the fact that whoever controls the airspace wins a war, and you get a VERY good reason why being forced onto the ground, while still somehow winning against the Arrakoa would break immersion, thus make content less succesful than it otherwise would be. Also, being forced to the ground removes the possibility of aditional content for exploration (lakes in Kalimdor, that were there quite obviously simply for the sake of being found, added in Cataclysm; waterfalls in Kun-Lai; rock needles around Jade Forest; etc.). Removing flying will result in this content being not only no longer necessary, it would be downright pointless. Therefore no flying means that creativity will be forced onto a singular plane with limited options, as compared to a full 3D topography/complex topology.
    Therefore, yes, removing flying is going backwards to a simpler environment design. No flying means having to resort to design around where player can reasonably get, and while a single sample of immediate surroundings might end up with more detail, in total, the overall environment will end up poorer because of the enforced limitations.
    Last edited by Serenais; 2014-04-24 at 06:49 AM.

  19. #6859
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    Nope nope nope nope nope

    Im a design student and i love game design and the removal of flying mounts is forward not backwards.

    Why? Because "design wise" for the first time in years the players will be playing content designed by the developers while with flying mounts everything developed by the creative team can be skipped (unless placed inside a cave...fun).
    If a bridge is broken you will have to go around or find the way to make across. (ex: Timeless Isle Flame Chest)
    If you have to jump from rock to rock in a river filled with sharks to get to the other side, you will feel the gameplay.
    If you are playing in a jungle with pit traps all over the place, same thing.

    With flying mounts EVERYTHING design wise can be skiped. So what im saying is:
    Removal of flying mounts = more space for creativity in gameplay
    How refreshing to read this style of (correct and accurate) analysis of the situation.

    lakes in Kalimdor, that were there quite obviously simply for the sake of being found, added in Cataclysm; waterfalls in Kun-Lai; rock needles around Jade Forest; etc.). Removing flying will result in this content being not only no longer necessary, it would be downright pointless. Therefore no flying means that creativity will be forced onto a singular plane with limited options, as compared to a full 3D topography/complex topology.
    How amusingly shortsighted and naive of you. I hope you dont expect anyone except other pro-flying trolls to believe it.

    If flying is removed - there is nothing stopping Blizzard still being able to do fun stuff like the taxi rides on the albatross (to take you to that Waterfall in the hills in Kun lai), Short Term flying buffs like the puzzle game on timeless isle from some herb in Jade Forrest (to fly up the rock needles in Jade Forrest). Use your imagination, instead of crying something is impossible because xyz.

    The notion that 'flying is removed = we cant do X anymore' is as inaccurate as it is stupid. No flying for players anywhere+everywhere doesnt mean the game cant still play around with it, and toy with the idea of flying related content when an appropriate opportunity presents itself. The above were just 2 quick examples.
    Last edited by TyrianFC; 2014-04-24 at 08:28 AM.

  20. #6860
    Brewmaster Serenais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    How refreshing to read this style of (correct and accurate) analysis of the situation.
    It does not address forced repetition of content that is no longer interesting that no flying would enforce.

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