Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[-Superman-]

You try so hard to ignore everything around you it's just rather sad now. Like trying to talk sense to a doorknob. I think the only 'fluff' here is you. After read Bashiok's post what actual argument do you have to justify keeping flight?


PS - And i know they didn't. He said himself why would they when their still in external testing. Giving promises so early on is foolish. What's your point?

My point is the only factor any of us give a shit about is yes or no. I did not need 7 paragraphs of nostalgia and opinion. I need a Yes or No answer. Plain and simple. The fact that you and the rest of the no-comprendo crowd rushed to say flying is gone tells me you are just here to fuel the fires rather than SEE what was actually said. He said nothing new... and in the end



Said nothing at all.

[DarkArchon]

There hasn't been a verdict yet but without getting to far ahead of myself here i'd say the evidence is pointing towards a No.

[-Superman-]

There hasn't been a verdict yet but without getting to far ahead of myself here i'd say the evidence is pointing towards a No.

That would be assumption. Not fact.

[Lumineus]

They refuse to answer cause they know they will fuck themselves with the pro-fliers, or they will fuck themselves with the anti-fliers. Seems to me they will wait til 6.1, after they have sold tons of copies of the game, and tons of boosts, and gotten lots of subs BEFORE they say definitively one way or another.

Don't tell me you see any kind of equivalency there. They could say flight was back for 6.1 (something they have reneged on already) and it would cost them nothing. The anti-flight crowd would continue to play just as they have for over seven years. That makes it increasingly likely that the real answer he refuses to give will piss off everyone else and cost them all the cash they could have had by stringing us along.

[DarkArchon]

That would be assumption. Not fact.

Yes, ok there Mister i dissect words and look at it with the most bluntly wide eyes ever. ''That would be assumption. Not Fact'' LOL Your a class act. Thank you for the laugh tho. You can ''assume'' the answer would be no over yes at this point.

[-Superman-]

Don't tell me you see any kind of equivalency there. They could say flight was back for 6.1 (something they have reneged on already) and it would cost them nothing. The anti-flight crowd would continue to play just as they have for over seven years. That makes it increasingly likely that the real answer he refuses to give will piss off everyone else and cost them all the cash they could have had by stringing us along.

Which is exactly what I was getting at.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, ok there Mister i dissect words and look at it with the most bluntly wide eyes ever. ''That would be assumption. Not Fact'' LOL Your a class act. Thank you for the laugh tho. You can ''assume'' the answer would be no over yes at this point.

I can assume a lot of things. Saying most of them would likely get me banned.

[klogaroth]

In terms of what they are trying to achieve with stopping you from just dropping in on quest objectives I get the point.

Certain zones are much more memorable when you have to actually play your way to an objective instead of simply dropping in on top of it.

Having to fight your way to an objective provides more of a buildup and a feeling of context and importance of that objective. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but there's a quest in Hellfire Peninsula that I remember highlighting this pretty well. It involved killing a named demon guy north of Thrallmar. Pre-flight you had to fight past quite a number of enemies to get there. It felt a lot more like fighting through an army of demons spilling forth from a portal than dropping in on his head, killing him and flying off.


There is an additional thing Blizzard has done which might make no flying a bit easier to cope with, possibly.
They've removed profession combat bonuses.

Provided there's no other reasons to pick up professions than making money/stuff for yourself then I'm pretty tempted to pick up at least 1 gathering profession on my main.
The thing I really wasn't looking forward to was having to play gathering alts, as currently any alt that's going to be doing anything serious needs to have proper professions. So gathering alts tend not to get geared much. If you can have gathering professions on a more serious character then it shouldn't be so bad as then mobs will melt anyway.

I'm quite interested to see how long they'll keep no flight going for. I can't really think of many other games that allow you to just fly over that much of the game.



PS: there's a reason Blizzard are being vague about when they'll allow flying. It's because they can't gauge the reaction to it from hyperbolic forumites. What they especially can't gauge is how people will actually feel about it once they've lived with it for a few months.

In a few months time anti-fliers might be begging to get back in the air once they've seen the reality. Pro-fliers might actually start to enjoy spending a bit more time on the ground once they've given it a try.

[Daws001]

I don't know. On one hand I can see the lack of flying being a bummer (gathering...hrm...) -BUT- I also see where they're coming from a design pov. Also, I don't mind being grounded on the Isle. I mean ultimately, at max level, we're all just going to be hanging out in our capital cities/garrisons/quest zone of the moment, so...meh.

If they make the FPs more direct/fast then that would be a big deal. Gathering aside, I wouldn't be too bummed by no flying in Draenor. A Draenor Wormhole Generator would be nice too

[Rankin]

As an example, let us consider a quest to assassinate an enemy leader. From the ground you approach a fort with guards at the gate. You charge and are able to dispatch them and sneak in a side hallway. You methodically take out packs of roaming sentries, and some of them shout at you as they run toward you. You notice they’re in the middle of practicing dark and forbidden magics, and you take a moment to disrupt their ritual. Dashing into the main courtyard you spot your target, sneaking and fighting your way to him--and with a forceful slash--the fort’s captain is vanquished, and as guards are alerted you fight your way out, glorious and triumphant in your success.

Alternatively, from a flying mount, you fly over the gate, see some guy whose name is highlighted, land on top of him, kill him, and then fly away.

Being efficient is great, being clever is great, and using your cleverness to be efficient is great, but how many of us have done the Tillers dailies up on the cliffside where the Hozen are, and waited for packs to pass by before setting down right where you’re supposed to, use whatever thingamabob you’re supposed to, and then lift off ASAP hoping-hoping-hoping nothing aggros? How many of us have become furious when we actually have to fight something!? Is that clever gameplay? Is that being good at playing the game, or is it using a mechanic to avoid having to play it? Is that what the game should be, and what our expectations should be as gamers playing it?

- Bashiok

Was very well said from his recent post. Nailed it to a tee.

Link to full post - http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3...flying-mounts/

First example is an obvious one. In order to assassinate the leader, you have to draw him out of hiding by killing his buddies. He appears near you once you've slaughtered enough minions. No way to swoop in. Or have it be a chain quest. Kill X number of minions, complete the quest, then get the quest for their leader, who will be somewhat close by.

Second one can be solved as well by having us kill Hozen to get explosives to use on the piles of stuff. Or make the stuff very unstable, so that you don't want to move too fast or you might blow yourself up.

These are not insurmountable problems that have no possible solution other than the removal of flight. And given that their stance is to enable flight with Patch 6.1, this no-flying seems more of a solution in search of a problem than something that needs to be done.

[zerocarbs]

At least now we finally have confirmation that not adding flight back after 6.1 is still a very possible scenario.

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I mean ultimately, at max level, we're all just going to be hanging out in our capital cities/garrisons/quest zone of the moment, so...meh.

This is true for some not all. I actually do things out in the world at max level on my flying mount. Things that I would probably be much more reluctant to do if I were regulated to the ground.

They can say that their goal is to not slow people down and that very well may be the truth. But regardless of that, what they actually accomplish WILL be to slow people down.

[klogaroth]

First example is an obvious one. In order to assassinate the leader, you have to draw him out of hiding by killing his buddies. He appears near you once you've slaughtered enough minions. No way to swoop in. Or have it be a chain quest. Kill X number of minions, complete the quest, then get the quest for their leader, who will be somewhat close by.

Second one can be solved as well by having us kill Hozen to get explosives to use on the piles of stuff. Or make the stuff very unstable, so that you don't want to move too fast or you might blow yourself up.

These are not insurmountable problems that have no possible solution other than the removal of flight. And given that their stance is to enable flight with Patch 6.1, this no-flying seems more of a problem in search of a solution than something that needs to be done.

Adding kill x mobs to quests is something of a backwards step. There are already enough quests in the game that boil down to "kill x guys". If you change assassination missions as above they simply become "kill x+1 guys". There's a different feel to killing x guys because they happen to be between you and your objective to the objective being kill x guys. Especially if there are skippable patrols, you have stealth, you can CC some, that sort of thing.

[Rutger]

Adding kill x mobs to quests is something of a backwards step. There are already enough quests in the game that boil down to "kill x guys". If you change assassination missions as above they simply become "kill x+1 guys". There's a different feel to killing x guys because they happen to be between you and your objective to the objective being kill x guys. Especially if there are skippable patrols, you have stealth, you can CC some, that sort of thing.

Yeah, i have so much stealth and CC as a priest...

[zerocarbs]

First example is an obvious one. In order to assassinate the leader, you have to draw him out of hiding by killing his buddies. He appears near you once you've slaughtered enough minions. No way to swoop in. Or have it be a chain quest. Kill X number of minions, complete the quest, then get the quest for their leader, who will be somewhat close by.

Exactly. Making content that people have to accomplish on the ground is not hard to do. Saying that they have to remove flying entirely to get people to do stuff on the ground is so fucking asinine. Either way, all you're doing is just killing mobs.

[Lumineus]

Yeah, i have so much stealth and CC as a priest...

You have a talented combat drop, and the option to race change to Night Elf. As a Paladin, I have to... hope my Saurok banner actually works...?

[Raiju]

You have a talented combat drop, and the option to race change to Night Elf. As a Paladin, I have to... hope my Saurok banner actually works...?

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=20066

[TyrianFC]

I loved the blue post. It really shows Blizzard has already dug their heels in.

Also, the very fact that Blizzard is refusing to even confirm/deny whether flying will be re-introduced beyond 6.1 is massive in itself, even if the outcome could go either way. It shows just how determined they are, because the easiest thing to do to settle most of the debate from pro-flyers is simply tell them '100% yes it'll be back for 6.1' - and Blizzard isnt even prepared to do that.

The post reassures me that Blizzard is definitely steering and taking WoD into a direction i'm very, very happy with.

[-Superman-]

I loved the blue post. It really shows Blizzard has already dug their heels in.

Also, the very fact that Blizzard is refusing to even confirm/deny whether flying will be re-introduced beyond 6.1 is massive in itself, even if the outcome could go either way. It shows just how determined they are, because the easiest thing to do to settle most of the debate from pro-flyers is simply tell them '100% yes it'll be back for 6.1' - and Blizzard isnt even prepared to do that.

The post reassures me that Blizzard is definitely steering and taking WoD into a direction i'm very, very happy with.

Tells me they are gonna soak every last dollar from people before giving them an answer. Just in case they do walk.

[Rutger]

You have a talented combat drop, and the option to race change to Night Elf. As a Paladin, I have to... hope my Saurok banner actually works...?

What combat drop do you mean? Dominate Mind?

[Incarnia]

And you'd be wrong. I played vanilla, and I sure as fuck do not want to go back to that style of gameplay.



Vanilla wasn't "way more dangerous". Hell, compared to every other MMO on the market at the time, Vanilla was a safest one out there. You know what you lost if you died? 10% durability.

Know what you lost if you played, say, Phantasy Star Online? Everything you had equipped on you dropped if you died. And if one person was a random player? Well, hope they have some decency, or you're gonna lose everything you had equipped because they could just scoop your loot and scoot on out.

Everquest made you lose whole swaths of experience when you died. Lineage....hell if I fucking know, I barely played any of that game.

So no, Vanilla was not some magical time of "Superty dooperty ultra-dangerous stuff guize!" It was only "dangerous" if you hadn't played any other MMO on the market at the time.



I barely if ever saw anyone out in the world back then. You know where I saw most of the people? In Ironforge, since that was where the Auction House was for Alliance. Only time I saw large amounts of players not in my guild at the time was when it was raid time and other guilds were going to raid. When randomly running about? Maybe 5 people max.

This ^

People claiming Vanilla being dangerous? Yeah right. I know people can experience things differently, but I cannot help to wonder if the people who say Vanilla was dangerous actually played during Vanilla? I don't believe so seeing how it is drastically different from my own experiences, and I have played since the launch of this game.
Apart from getting ganked while moving towards the raid instance if you were late or a bit slow at moving out the world actually was safe. As safe as today, with flying and every luxury we got. Getting from point A to point B in Vanilla was however painfully slow and tedious after a while at max level. Well, it was extremely slow (if not horribly slow) during leveling. Only time there were outdoor action was when we had the important world bosses (raiding guilds competing to tag them and keep the tag until kill) and before Blizzard introduced Battlegrounds. Previous to Battlegrounds fights could spark a bit here and there if someone with bored guildmates got corpse camped by a larger number of gankers going around killing lowbies. This even happens today, not just as often as it did during early Vanilla. What we don't have today are those massive outdoor pvp battles that SOMETIMES developed from bored guildmates seeking revenge against corpse campers, who in their turn called over all of their bored guildmates. During Vanilla a whole lot of people were just hanging around in Orgrimmar or IF at the AH's.

Going everywhere by ground mounts or flight paths are in my opinion a limitation of the users freedom and desire on how they want to experience the game. Flight paths in general are rather boring if you ask for my personal take upon that way of traveling inside a game. I love having the option to fly, but just because I do have this option does not mean I CHOSE to always fly. Which I don't, I spend a lot of time moving by ground mounts too. Simply because I WANT TO and find pleasure in experience the game from that angle and position. For the exact same reason do I chose to fly, when I WANT TO. Flying through the forest, just below the canopy is quite beautiful... Some areas are not really designed with that in mind though. But that's okay.

No one is forcing anyone to fly, not really anyway. If you feel forced to fly simply by the fact you can fly? Well then you are either really comfortable and lazy (always choosing the faster option) or are just incapable of making your own decisions regarding how you like to travel/experience the game and chose what you think everyone else is choosing - skipping content and taking the fastest option. Ultimately It is YOUR decision, no one is forcing you as it is today (apart for pandaria content until max lvl, and the islands).

With flying being disabled, you no longer chose yourself. Blizzard chooses for you, indirectly forces you.

[rebecca191]

I'm going to venture and say the people who are all need flying, never played with out it. Vanilla seemed way more dangerous. And you actually saw people in the world. OH and there were gathering professions back then too.

Lol I did play back then, that is how I know I hate it. Well, along with every no fly zone since then.