Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Anzaman]

Surely that sort of wild change should of been frowned upon since cata hard heroics?

Well, Cata heroics were kind of different since those were endgame for many as LFR didn't exists at given time. It was plainly way too hard content for some of the players. Meanwhile flying is only form of travel, and limiting it doesn't create any walls anywhere.

With WoD they can easily create harder heroic dungeons again, as there's another viable path; normal dungeons -> LFR, instead of having heroic dungeons between them.

[Chipperbane]

Jesus Christ. We need to stop this bulletpoint bullshit because my posts are getting too long and neither one of us really cares what the other says, nor will it sway my opinion.

@NAYAGA

Wrong! The keyword here is "GAME". We play "games" for fun. For many of us flying is fun. Max level flying adds for fun to the "GAME" for many of us.

This is an opinion, your personal one, and I don't agree with you.

For many, flying detracts from this game. However, with flying, the Groundlings simply can't choose to be Groundlings, because that would be willingly crippling ourselves. And no one wants to do that.

But if, in Draenor, we cannot fly, then we are not willingly crippling ourselves.

If you enjoy exploring on the ground, go right ahead, others might enjoy the game a different way they you. Your method of game play is not the only way to enjoy the game.

It's not exploration if you fly to it, skipping all the difficult to get around terrain and content leading up to the discovery. Imagine if Indy could just get from place to place via judicious use of flying, leaving Shortround to fight his way to the discoveries. The movies would last 10 minutes.

Similar, but not the same. Both let you fly over content you want to skip. Flight taxis are a force AFK where you can't interact with anything in the world. With a personal flying mount you can choose to swoop down and interact with anything of interest at any time. I prefer interaction with the world instead of staring a screen I can do nothing with.

Anything of interest becomes nothing of interest after the first discovery of it on ground or by air. Pace yourself.

Very narrow minded. Not everyone enjoys the same aspects of the game and that's fine.

I agree. Not everyone enjoys flying.

I never, ever fly this way.

You're the minority, my friend. You'll find, more often than not, when people are not in the Shrine afking or dancing, they're auto-flying in a straight line while they make a sandwich, or they're afk way up high because they had to leave suddenly.

Not sure you are aware of this or not, but this is a fan site for WoW. This forum is setup to discuss the game. The game would not be better off by getting rid of people that don't want to play the game your way. Grow up!

I want you to be fully aware of this: in response to me telling you to grow up, you shout it back to me.

How the hell is that not childish? "Nuh uh, you are!" is what your response boiled down to.

I think getting rid of people who scream and fuss over changes and threaten to leave is ultimately healthier for the game - even they're changes I don't personally like.

If you're at a friend's house and he buys Park Place when you own Boardwalk, and if you start a hissy fit because he stopped your Boardwalk Empire, don't be alarmed if you're not invited back next time.

Say, "I don't like it. Here are my reasons why:". Don't say, "I'M GONNA LEAVE IF THIS DOESN'T CHANGE! "

Blizzard has the difficult job of pacing content consumption. Adding AFK travel time is in my opinion a very poor way of doing this.

If you go to a park, you don't go from ride to ride immediately. You walk around. You stop and look at things. You ride the same ride over and over again. You sit down and talk to friends. If you got to each ride in seconds, skipping the socializing, the adventure, the peoplewatching, don't be surprised when you leave the amusement park in half an hour.

Content should not be consumed too fast. And if they have to ground your ass to do it, more power to them.

WRONG! Removing flying will not increase WPvP on my PvE server.

Then I say we flag people for PvP on PvE servers. That way, you'll have some WPvP! Problem solved. /sarcasm

This is an opinion, your personal one and I don't agree with you. Flying does bring fun and entertainment to the game to many of us. AGAIN, not everyone enjoys the same aspects of the game.

This is an opinion, your personal one, and I don't agree with you.

God, why didn't you add the comma after "one"? Now I need to edit it every time I copypaste it.

Not everyone enjoys flight. The game is not healthier for it. The developers think it is a detriment to gameplay.

It's fine that you "derive no joy from flying". But you don't speak for everyone and certainly not me. It is not lazy. I play the game for fun, not for boring and tedious. You do not speak for me.

It is by definition lazy. Avoiding content because you don't want to fight that content is avoiding it because you don't want to put forth the effort.

I don't need to speak for you. Blizzard's mind is made up.


@QURAS

Designed without flying and yet at max level it brings a lot of convenience in travel and helps make already tedious tasks a lot more bearable.

Yes. It's designed without flying. That's a pretty cut and paste response right there, wouldn't you agree?

That flying makes it convenient is not a good argument. There's convenience everywhere in this world, I swear. It's like we're being coddled.

That alone is a lot. Not to mention just the fact that after 10 levels and seeing the same worthless mobs oave and over, flying is a God send in a theme park game to get you to where you want to go sooner. Not later. Lets get to the fun not hinder gamers ability to get there.

Again, I gesture towards my Amusement Park quote above:

If you go from ride to ride, skipping the in between, you'll be out of there in half an hour. The in between is a game all its own. The carnie games, the people watching, the sitting with friends, the eating elephant-ears at a dirty, splintery picnic table. It's a package deal. It encompasses the amusement park experience.

The in between makes it special. It makes it memorable. It paces you, gives your stomach time to settle down after the loop-de-loop - more than that, it gives you a reason to tell your mom "but I haven't gone on that ride yet" after two hours of milling around the park.

Then do it. Don't remove flying because you can't be bothered to do what you find enjoyable. Best of both worlds is the way to proceed, not limit half the player base and push it all to one side.

Best of both worlds? Give me an example of grounding people, while allowing them some freedom.

Otherwise, if you've flying enabled... there's really no need to ever mount a ground mount. And I certainly won't cripple myself to grant myself the dubious honor of riding my Palomino.

It's not crippling if I've no choice in the matter.

No ones angry, except maybe you. Everyone wants to game to be fun to them. It's a shame you can't support your fun and also support others fun when they can be done separately,entirely independent of each other from botha degin aspect of the game as well as what gamers find fun.

I was literally quoting someone saying "DON'T SHIT ON ME I QUIT". I'm sure he's at least sort of piqued.

I also want the game to be a game. IT's been a game for 7+ years. Kinda sucks blizzard wants to turn it on it's ear just to slow content consumption.

You do what I do - you hold your finger on the shift key for too long and capitalize the second letter of the word. Common ground!

The game is more a game if it lasts longer. Skyrim would suck if you got flying in the base game(you get it in a DLC, I think?) - if you could just fly over the beautifully crafted ground.

Maybe it was story and content design and flying. The entire package was good. After seeing beta I can't say the same for WoD but what we do know is flying didn't hurt those past expansions and clearly helped them. Cause and affect. Produce a good feature that makes your game stand out from all the rest. It tends to generate subs. Remove that feature after 7 years it stands to reason that removing gamers entertainment is a bad thing.

Cause and effect? Correlation without causation.

You know what Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King had? 10 levels each. Cataclysm and Pandaria? 5 levels each.

Growth in the 10-level Expansions. Loss in the 5-level expansion.

Assertion: 10-level expansions see more success.

That is a theoretical cause and effect. You said TBC and WotLK had growth because flying. Cataclysm and Pandaria had flying, too, but they saw a loss of subs.

Ready? In Vanilla, TBC, WotLK, you could not fly in old world. Subscription Growth.

In Cataclysm, and Mists of Pandaria, you could. Subscription Loss.

Assertion: Flying in the old world was detrimental to the game.

I can throw random cause-and-effect assumptions around too.

Its a better reason to keep it than, "Lets see how much time we can waste at max level." and "I'd like to see those worthless mobs again and again."

I'm pretty sure all the reasons we have boil down to "I Do/Don't Want It Because Reasons". Let's be frank - both of us want what we want because it caters to our desire. Not because it's good for the game, or bad for it, or whatever.

And you are ultimately right. Kinda makes sense to keep flying when no one is really in a competition and should be making their travel decisions on what they find fun. To bad gamers like you can't seem to do that as we would all be better off if you could.

That was a leap to conclusions. Normally, when someone says "It's not a competition", it's preceded by "Take your time", not by "Hurry the hell up and skip that content".

Flight Paths =/= Flight = No shit! Thats why few care for them. There not even remotely equal and personal flight is much better. IT at least keep gamers in the game. If you want to run the risk of coming back dead thats on the gamer. Just like choosing to fly or stay on the ground should be a gamer choice at max level as it has been in every expansion this game has ever had

I was quoting someone else, who said that they fly in Draenor. But on flight paths. I'm not declaring that as my own, like, argument. I'm telling it to that dude.

I hate flight paths too. If Pandaria was at least slightly connected outside one little pass in Kun'lai, I'd give it a shot and go by ground. But it's not.

If you're going to argue flying needs to go because you can skip content you got a lot more things to add to your list. It' s almost like your saying skipping content is fine no matter how you do it as long as you don't do it flying. Which is monumentally ignorant.

Give it a shot, take a stance. At least your not riding the fence I'll give you that. Beyond that, click the other button if you don't mind and leave flying at max level in game. Choices are always better in MMO's.

Give no-flying a shot when live hits. Take a... chance? Stance? I'm not sure. I mean, my stance is obvious.

I agree. I like choices. Ground Mounts, Ogre Waygates, Flight Paths. Appreciable choices.

You know what I'd like more? More choices. I want an instant Teleport-To-Boss effect in my dungeons. I want to have rare spawn drops mailed to me if I so much as see them on my map. Treasures should be in a pile in one location, for sake of ease. Let's get rid of leveling - instant level 100! Quests are dumb and all they do is pad content.

The game is now Level 100, Dungeons, and Raids. You might as well have a menu to queue for dungeons and raids while sitting in one spot.

Wait, shiiiit.

Convenience is not always good. Flying is a heaping helping of convenience.

My ironman helm is also in beta but I still need your cash first. Things may or may not change, no one knows but cash first please. Your choice. Don't you love choices?

They didn't need your cash. You chose to preorder. You chose to jump the gun and buy the expansion early. Just because you regret your decision doesn't make it -

... I love choices! Can I have a... do you have a Mega Man helmet? X, please. Not derpy Mega Man. X is hot.

It's up to the gamer how he wants to die but at least he has the option to stay in game and fly himself or fly tp whatever he sees as interesting. Can't really do that with AFK-autopiolet flight paths.

OMG there's still, like, 8 more things I need to address.

People use flying mounts like afk autopilot, too. You seem to think the people who use mounts for exploration and fun are the majority. They're not. People use mounts to skip content, or to get to content faster - then they complain when they consumed the content too fast.

Maybe, it's clearly better off with the loss of more gamers. It's clearly better off with less options than more. WoD is clearly better off with so much design based on "same old, same old".

Very dimwitted to think at this point in the game removing flying at max level vs keeping both options there is somehow better cause given the beta at max level. It really not.

I think most banks are better off without hostages and bank robbers with a list of demands. That's all this is. Blizzard is the bank, the hostage is your subscription. Unless they meet your demands, you kill the hostage. I hope Blizzard doesn't negotiate with criminals.

Additionally, ground mounts are not an option.

I disagree. It's ultimately up to the gamer. You want to make content last longer, design better content. Flying in and of itself isn't the problem there, it's blizzard making content that simply doesn't last. Flying has little or nothing to do with that other than getting gamers to where the fun is sooner. That is not a bad thing.

It doesn't last because instead of doing one thing once a day for seven days you do seven things in one day and wonder why you have nothing to do the other six days.

The content's fine. If getting from A to B took 5 minutes on the ground, and B to C took 5 minutes on the ground, that content takes 10 minutes.

If it takes 30 seconds from A to B with flight, and 30 seconds from B to C with flight, the content takes a minute.

You consume the content too quickly. It could be the best damn content in the world - ambrosia to the gods, water to a man in the desert - but it matters little if you complete it all quickly.

It hasn't in beta and given the WPVP gives no rewards in a reward based game and blizzard clearly saying this is not done because of WPVP (because even they know this change wont make much a difference) You'll see no real increase to WPVP.

It hasn't in the beta because it's the beta. People are testing content first, PvPing second. Additionally, realm population isn't that good on the beta.

I guarantee you, being grounded will cause more PvP than flying.

Not likely, you will be ignored just as you are now. When there is no reason for anyoe to care wether your are there or not, no one will care if you are there or not. Socialization on open world content didn't increase in WOD beta beyond they normal general chat, "I can't find so and so." I can't recall anytime I say someone say, "I can't do this, come and help me."

Sure, that's possible. But at least I'll see more people, instead of the rare glimpse I see of a person raining from the sky, crushing a mob, and.. evaporating back to the skies.

If you want to get credit you have to fight any mob. How you got there means little in the grand scheme of the game. Better to have games get there than to miss out cause they were on a slow ground mount.

Then I say that, if you need to kill Mob A, he should have no Mob B's anywhere around him. Because they're not part of the quest, and thus irrelevant.

If you need to collect twenty bear asses, they must have a 100% chance to drop, instead of 75%.

There should be no trash in raids. Because raiding is about killing the bosses.

How you get to the places matters. It's not where you end up, but how you got there that counts. Yet our lessons come from the journey, not the destination. It's not where you're going, it's how you get there.

There are like, a dozen quotes about the journey being more important than the destination.

If you think no flying is going to somehow stop ganking you got another thing coming. If you think no flying is somehow going to magically get help there faster you got another thing coming. If your always ganking low levels, you are not carefully picking out targets.

You want to stop diveboming of quests, design better quests. Stop having mobs stand out in the middle of no where waiting to be stealth killed or divebombed.

It's called poor quest design and is not a problem with flying.

Okay. Every quest mob is now indoors, or in a cave, on in a scenario. Enjoy.

TBC says differently. We ran on the ground for so long flying was the most request feature ever beside maybe duel spec or the dance studio.

Guess what we got first? Flying. It's just that fun and amazing. Go check out TBC blizzcon clip if you don't believe me.

No, it wasn't fun and amazing. It was stupid - it was 60%. No one chose to fly to their destination - they used it to avoid mobs and avoid terrain. That's all. People hated flying if you didn't have epic flying.

Then I suggest you don't fly but I also suggest you don't ruin it for others simply because you can't be bothered to click the other button.

Like I said, if your problem with flying is because you can skip things, you got a lot more things to start arguing for the removal of than just flying.

Again - we're not going to willingly cripple ourselves because flying isn't healthy.

That's such a pisspoor argument.

Anti-fliers agree that it is not a healthy way for the game to continue. We use flying mounts, though, because not doing so is detrimental to gameplay in Pandaria, Cataclysm, WotLK, etc. It is NOT detrimental to gameplay in Draenor because it was designed to be ridden over on foot.

[cabyio]

What if only 1% of the player base really freaks out and takes to the forums for the first year of WoD.

That is 68,000 people.

Tell me again how mice and quiet it is going to be.

Im sure it will make the forums very loud, but blizzard can look at it and see that it is only 1% and know that it doesn't really matter. Blizzard is smarter than that. Just because people are loud about something does not mean blizzard is going to be like, "Oh no, the peoples are mad, run for the hills!"

[Deleted]

Every time I am in a LFR or a dungeon I ask people if they know flying is going to be removed from the next expansion. Many have no idea what i am talking about. In fact they get angry calling me a liar or a troll. I encourage them to go to the WOW forums and to come to these forums are any other video game forum and ask for answers and more information.

So your proof is a story you are telling here, and I am supposed to simply believe you?

Even if it were true: How many LFRgroups do you join, and how many players did you discuss this with? There are still almost 7 million players out there. Even if you spend your entire day getting in and out of LFR groups for no other purpose than the one stated here, it would still not have any statistical significance.

You just continue to spread your nonsense, because you don't have any real data or argumentation.

[CheeseSandwich]

Well, Cata heroics were kind of different since those were endgame for many as LFR didn't exists at given time. It was plainly way too hard content for some of the players. Meanwhile flying is only form of travel, and limiting it doesn't create any walls anywhere.

They are kinda the same, cata heroics put walls on people using LFG that were used to being able to complete a LFG. There was no middle ground, it was hard or highway. Like dailies, lots and then none. And now flying, OK and now restricted.

It makes walls to the people who enjoy flight at max level in a new area for whatever reason. It puts walls on the ability to view the land you just leveled through in a whole new perspective, it walls my ability to "check that out over there", it walls my ability to stop and engage with the world for the majority of my 'x to z' travel, it walls players immersion in the realism of their grounded flying mounts, its walls my ability to traverse ad hoc or with purpose throughout a land I have over powered, conquered, and know like the back of my hand.

[Rabblexthree]

I still say you're all being arrogant about this whole topic. No one knows whether they will add flying or not. Stop acting like you know something. The people complaining about the "flying" mount in Draenor need to just stop. You look foolish.

[CheeseSandwich]

I still say you're all being arrogant about this whole topic. No one knows whether they will add flying or not. Stop acting like you know something. The people complaining about the "flying" mount in Draenor need to just stop. You look foolish.

That...that is the title of the thread though. Anything related to that, is related to the thread.

If the people posting here are foolish, you don't see any irony in you posting here?

[rebecca191]

If you go to a park, you don't go from ride to ride immediately. You walk around. You stop and look at things. You ride the same ride over and over again. You sit down and talk to friends. If you got to each ride in seconds, skipping the socializing, the adventure, the peoplewatching, don't be surprised when you leave the amusement park in half an hour.

I would love to get every ride at Disney World done in two hours and just leave, personally. The crowds there are painful.

That said... flying itself is a ride for me. One I don't care to play without.

[Rabblexthree]

That...that is the title of the thread though. Anything related to that, is related to the thread.

If the people posting here are foolish, you don't see any irony in you posting here?

I didn't say everyone posting here is foolish. I said the people talking about the "flying" mount look foolish. The other part of my post has to deal with people acting like they know 100%, for sure, whether there will or won't be flying. I have no problem with anyone spouting their opinions on the matter. I think it is weird to act as if you have foresight and can see into the future and know what will happen.

[Chipperbane]

I would love to get every ride at Disney World done in two hours and just leave, personally. The crowds there are painful.

That said... flying itself is a ride for me. One I don't care to play without.

But then you couldn't come back every half an hour to ogle the hot Latino dressed as Aladdin. That's the spirit of Disney World!

[CheeseSandwich]

I didn't say everyone posting here is foolish. I said the people talking about the "flying" mount look foolish. The other part of my post has to deal with people acting like they know 100%, for sure, whether there will or won't be flying. I have no problem with anyone spouting their opinions on the matter. I think it is weird to act as if you have foresight and can see into the future and know what will happen.

Ah ok, all good, thanks for the clarification

[SkagenRora]

I just had the most brilliant idea EVER!!
What if blizz invented a disable fly mount button??
So people who like ground mount can just check that box, and they won't be able too fly! or even have the option to fly! Since for them and only them it would be disabled! If they have checked that box

[cabyio]

I just had the most brilliant idea EVER!!
What if blizz invented a disable fly mount button??
So people who like ground mount can just check that box, and they won't be able too fly! or even have the option to fly! Since for them and only them it would be disabled! If they have checked that box

The anti flying position is not about personally not wanting to fly. It is about thinking the game is bettered overall by the limiting of flying.

[Aberzombie]

Anything of interest becomes nothing of interest after the first discovery of it on ground or by air. Pace yourself.

I agree with this completely, but from the profly view. It supports our contention that, once we've seen it there's not reason to keep us on the ground. As you say, it becomes of no interest and we shouldn't have to be force fed more of it. We should be able to "skip it" after the first time, if that's what we choose to do. The nofly side keeps missing that angle and then trying to use our own arguments against us.... sort of laughable, sort of sad.

- - - Updated - - -

Content should not be consumed too fast. And if they have to ground your ass to do it, more power to them.

The worst offenders of too-fast content consumption are those I call the Content Locusts... the ones that queue for dungeons until level cap then queue for other "end game" instanced content (Raids, BG's, et al) and hardly ever leave a major city. They're the ones that end up consuming content well before the next patch is ready and are the loudest, most strident in their complaints to Blizz for more. Slowing them down would do far more good for Blizz's "pacing" problem than nerfing everybody's ability to choose how they get around in the open world. Get that done, then look to see if there's any reason to mess with free-form flight.

[Deleted]

really its not hard to understand

imagine LOTR with flying mounts : oh hey we just took a fly to Mordor and dropped the ring into the fire from above. yeah that sounds pretty horrible.
Well wow with flying is as shitty as LOTR with flying would be

[CheeseSandwich]

really its not hard to understand

imagine LOTR with flying mounts : oh hey we just took a fly to Mordor and dropped the ring into the fire from above. yeah that sounds pretty horrible.
Well wow with flying is as shitty as LOTR with flying would be

[pankind]

The game has been designed in the past for flying

Not like Warlords of Draenor. The expansion introduces new mechanics that have been determined by the developers to be trivialized by flying.

- - - Updated - - -

The anti flying position is not about personally not wanting to fly. It is about thinking the game is bettered overall by the limiting of flying.

We can say this until we are blue in the face and it won't change anything. At this point the thread has devolved into the crazed rantings of concern trolls.

[SkagenRora]

The anti flying position is not about personally not wanting to fly. It is about thinking the game is bettered overall by the limiting of flying.

I hear alot off "If you don't like flying, then don't fly" so this option would solve everything!!

[CheeseSandwich]

Not like Warlords of Draenor. The expansion introduces new mechanics that have been determined by the developers to be trivialized by flying.

- - - Updated - - -



We can say this until we are blue in the face and it won't change anything. At this point the thread has devolved into the crazed rantings of concern trolls.

a/ what are these 'new' mechanics? How are they 'new' over anything that has been before in WoW, that has included an overworld with flight?

The anti flying position is not about personally not wanting to fly. It is about thinking the game is bettered overall by the limiting of flying.

b/ The pro flight position is not about personally wanting flying. It is about thinking the game is bettered overall by having flying at max level.

That is the pro flight position, if you can't see the similarity of that viewpoint with that of your own, and class it as 'crazed rantings', then you are ignorant of the fact that other people may enjoy the game for reasons other than yours.

[Nayaga]

Jesus Christ. We need to stop this bulletpoint bullshit because my posts are getting too long and neither one of us really cares what the other says, nor will it sway my opinion.

When someone says so many stupid things in one post, we have to break it down.

It's not exploration if you fly to it, skipping all the difficult to get around terrain and content leading up to the discovery. Imagine if Indy could just get from place to place via judicious use of flying, leaving Shortround to fight his way to the discoveries. The movies would last 10 minutes.

Very few people are asking for flying while leveling. For myself I think we should have to complete Loremaster for WoD before the epic get fly quest. The discovery is done at this point. Nothing is skipped.

I agree. Not everyone enjoys flying.

That is the whole point of my counter post to yours. You said "There's no good GAME reason for flying. " This statement is only your opinion, not a statement of fact. If you get one single thing out of this, understand not everyone enjoys the same aspects of that game. Your way of game is not the only correct method!

You're the minority, my friend. You'll find, more often than not, when people are not in the Shrine afking or dancing, they're auto-flying in a straight line while they make a sandwich, or they're afk way up high because they had to leave suddenly.

You have no clue if I'm a minority or not, just a lame ass guess.

I want you to be fully aware of this: in response to me telling you to grow up, you shout it back to me.

I told you go grow up because you need to.

I think getting rid of people who scream and fuss over changes and threaten to leave is ultimately healthier for the game - even they're changes I don't personally like.

I'm really glad you don't get to decide who is allowed to play "your" game.

If you go to a park, you don't go from ride to ride immediately. You walk around. You stop and look at things. You ride the same ride over and over again. You sit down and talk to friends. If you got to each ride in seconds, skipping the socializing, the adventure, the peoplewatching, don't be surprised when you leave the amusement park in half an hour.

It's a balance, I don't want to spend too much time between rides, that is the difficult balance Blizzard needs to come up with.

Then I say we flag people for PvP on PvE servers. That way, you'll have some WPvP! Problem solved.

I choose a PvE server after being on a PvP server for seven years. I don't want WPvP, thank god blizzard isn't as stupid to think all servers should be PvP. AGAIN, not everyone enjoys the same aspects of that game. Your way of game is not the only correct method

Not everyone enjoys flight. The game is not healthier for it. The developers think it is a detriment to gameplay.

The developers think content droughts are bad for profits. To avoid content droughts they slow our content consumptions with many methods. Removal of flight is one method. This has little or nothing to do with the "health" of the game.

It is by definition lazy. Avoiding content because you don't want to fight that content is avoiding it because you don't want to put forth the effort.

There is no risk, no challenge and little reward slogging through low level mobs. Max level+ flight lets us avoid the boredom and tedium of content we have leveled past and already experienced.

I don't need to speak for you. Blizzard's mind is made up.

You don't need to speak with me, but whenever I see you make completely moronic statements like "There's no good GAME reason for flying", I will point it out.

For the love of WoW, not everyone enjoys the same aspects of that game. Your way of game is not the only correct method!