Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Dhrizzle]

The introduction of increased services and items sold from the Blizz store clearly indicates they were looking into this as a way to off set sub losses a long time ago (eg. Cata).

They've been looking into alternative revenue to subscriptions since way before then, server transfers came in with TBC I believe at a time when subs were still increasing.

The blizz store transactions really helped them off set the massive sub losses they saw in Mist of Pandaria.

Do you have a link for the figures on that?

[Mafic]

How is this still going?

The majority doesn't care about flying... sorry. Blizzard doesn't care either...

If they didn't care they wouldn't be deleting so many threads on their official forums. They are deleting threads (flying) at a higher rate than the CRZ threads (plenty of those too). The CRZ threads were more consolidated, which is true, but the problem is that it didn't effect all the servers. No flying effects all servers and thus the reaction has been more extreme. Thus, Blizz has taken extreme actions by not positing a sticky on their forums or front page about their decisions of no flying in the expansion. They put it in the most unlikeliest of places (reddit) which is a small forum(WoW reddit) compared to other subs on reddit (Eg. XX ).

[-Superman-]

I LOVE NO FLYING!

Yes, I archeologize. Yes, I pet battle. Yes, I have to walk places.

I don't mind being forced to give a damn about the place I'm heading through. If it was "no flying until the next xpac" or even "no flying, EVER AGAIN" I wouldn't mind at all.

Given that ponies fly...

As for the purpose of this conversation, I too do all those things. Even now without flight. Would be much quicker and more convenient with flight, you know... like the last 8 years.

[Barkloud]

You snipped the part that was actually relevant to the discussion. He said that all flying threads are deleted. I showed him otherwise.

When I say that I don't care about the content of the thread, I'm saying that I take no sides on the debate. Just because I don't emphasise with you on everything does not mean I'm on the total opposite side, despite how much "easier" that would be to believe. Not everything is as black and white as some people in this thread want it to be.

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Right. And? You said that they all get deleted.

Absolutes are tough in an uncertain world. I will make an effort to communicate differently.

[Mafic]

They've been looking into alternative revenue to subscriptions since way before then, server transfers came in with TBC I believe at a time when subs were still increasing.



Do you have a link for the figures on that?

Yeah but the RMT started to ramp up in Cata where they started to see large sub losses. I will look for the link that shows Blizz financials and how the Blizz store is a massive boost for them (I think it was a massively article).

[-Superman-]

The middle of the road approach is strategic, and according to the dictionary is not hypocritical. I'm sure you'd like them to take a firm stance, but it's not in their best interests to do that, so they won't.

Of course. No way to lose money as long as both sides stick around in hopes the other side is proven wrong. They are pitting pro against anti, and they are profitting. Middle of the road buys them new swimming pools and annual bonuses. Picking a side means taking a hit. Little more than video game politicians at this point. Just saddens me to see all the people willing to pat them on the back, or kiss their ass, just for saying "Derp. We don't know. But not yet." rather than picking a side, sacking up, and bracing for the impact.

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"If you're not with me then you're against me" Sorry the real world doesn't work like that. There are varying levels of actually caring about a topic it's not a binary yes/no switch.

When flying was removed I gave a resounding "oh alright". If flying is eventually added I will continue to give a resounding "oh alright".

The only thing I show any real passionate care for is people who are being deliberately deceitful in their arguments to get their point across.

I said nothing about being with me... or against me. Stop projecting. I said that you agree with Blizz, which makes you anti-flight since Blizz is anti-flight. You cannot agree with their agenda and then keep your distance from the stigma. Not how it works. Blizz says no flight, and you agree. Makes you anti-flight. Pretty basic logic.

[Deleted]

I said nothing about being with me... or against me. Stop projecting. I said that you agree with Blizz, which makes you anti-flight since Blizz is anti-flight. You cannot agree with their agenda and then keep your distance from the stigma. Not how it works. Blizz says no flight, and you agree. Makes you anti-flight. Pretty basic logic.

Point out where I said I agree. That'll be a fun search for you to do.

I already explained my stance on this. If you can't grasp that concept then we have nothing further to discuss. If you want to have a simpler discussion with people who have shiny yes/no badges then find someone else.

[pankind]

Of course. No way to lose money as long as both sides stick around in hopes the other side is proven wrong. They are pitting pro against anti, and they are profitting. Middle of the road buys them new swimming pools and annual bonuses. Picking a side means taking a hit. Little more than video game politicians at this point. Just saddens me to see all the people willing to pat them on the back, or kiss their ass, just for saying "Derp. We don't know. But not yet." rather than picking a side, sacking up, and bracing for the impact.

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I said nothing about being with me... or against me. Stop projecting. I said that you agree with Blizz, which makes you anti-flight since Blizz is anti-flight. You cannot agree with their agenda and then keep your distance from the stigma. Not how it works. Blizz says no flight, and you agree. Makes you anti-flight. Pretty basic logic.

Well, they have good jobs in warm climate, I don't blame them for protecting their assets. I also don't really see any real evidence that flight is as polarizing as you are implying. There's way too many people saying "meh." Extrapolating on a post on the holinka thread about twitter, honestly the best thing someone pro-flight could so is start a pro-fly hashtag campaign on twitter, but you'd be more successful waiting until 6.1 is live. Twitter is something that the corporate drones take very seriously, if pro flight was trending for any significant amount of time you'd be floating afk in Warspear by 6.2.

[Drytoast]

I don't care about the content of the thread. You said threads are getting deleted left right and center without any actual evidence.

Pretty sure I posted about 30 threads give or take.

check my history, click those links and find out how many were eventually deleted...

[Aggrophobic]

Blizz have a long, long way to go before subscriptions get low enough for them to worry about WoW being sustainable.

It's been going downhill since Wrath though, and it's not slowing down. At this rate it'll go F2P in one or two xpacks.
It may still be making good money but it sure as hell ain't doing as well as it could do.

[-Superman-]

Well, they have good jobs in warm climate, I don't blame them for protecting their assets. I also don't really see any real evidence that flight is as polarizing as you are implying. There's way too many people saying "meh." Extrapolating on a post on the holinka thread about twitter, honestly the best thing someone pro-flight could so is start a pro-fly hashtag campaign on twitter, but you'd be more successful waiting until 6.1 is live. Twitter is something that the corporate drones take very seriously, if pro flight was trending for any significant amount of time you'd be floating afk in Warspear by 6.2.

Blizz is making the polarization... not me. They are claiming that flight trivializes content and combat, and they have felt this way since TBC. If they felt that way, maybe someone could explain Wrath, Cata, and Mop. Maybe they could also explain flying mounts as achievement rewards and as cash sales on their website. If flight is so detrimental to the game, then why are these underhanded shysters still making money hand over fist when it comes to the cash shop? They need to pick a side and go with it. Either flight is the devil and should be removed entirely, or it is an amazing mechanic and should be added to Draenor. The middle of the road is a crappy place to be.

[Ferocity]

Blizz don't have a problem with legacy content becoming trivial, Draenor will become something we can go back and play in easy-mode the way we do with the old raids from previous expansions.

Isn't Draenor trivial enough, especially at max level? It becomes outdated, worthless and obsolete the moment you ding 100. One of the reason for flying at max level is to make world be more ... inviting to explore it and see from different angles as well as means of traversing. So basically Draenor is outdated, worthless and uninviting content. Why let it rot? Let people fly and collect those 1g treasures, smell flowers, etc., instead of it rotting, being useless, filler chunk of content.

What easy mode? Being outdated and obsolete, Draenor poses no challenge, unless you alone try to tackle on some lv100 elites and world bosses. It gives no rewards either. And if you had full SoO hc-mythic gear, Draenor was long as entirely outdated and far beyond trivial even before WoD release.

Flying has place now, while content is at least somewhat actual and has at least some relevance. Why should it turn completely ancient to allow flying in it?

And making it as a rule will just lead to people not buying expansion packs. They will wait when new expansion is out and previous one is baseline and will play it without any gates, with flying, etc. Dungeoning will be tricky though, as most players will be in new expansion content, but just give it time for players to adapt to this, as less and less will be buying new expansion straight after release.

Professions? Gated and restricted. Raids? Gated. World exploration? Restricted. Dungeons? Cataclysmic amount and unrewarding. Some world zones yet to be released (unless they will go the way of Abyssal Maw).

Perhaps playerbase as a whole shouldn't buy and play expansion before next one is out? They will pay less and will get more.

[SirBeef]

Well, they have good jobs in warm climate, I don't blame them for protecting their assets. I also don't really see any real evidence that flight is as polarizing as you are implying. There's way too many people saying "meh." Extrapolating on a post on the holinka thread about twitter, honestly the best thing someone pro-flight could so is start a pro-fly hashtag campaign on twitter, but you'd be more successful waiting until 6.1 is live. Twitter is something that the corporate drones take very seriously, if pro flight was trending for any significant amount of time you'd be floating afk in Warspear by 6.2.

When flying is enabled, you I doubt SS/WS will have flying. That being said, I agree that debate amongst most players is meh. If it were as big of a deal as the few posters here and on the official forums believe it is then we would either have flying back already or it would have been announced as part of the 6.1 changes. Need before greed vs. personal loot was proven to be a big deal with the players overall and got the change reverted in 24 hours. Seriously, if flying was as big of an issue as the dungeon loot issue was flying would be in or coming soon.

My wife of all people was pissed about the no flying and just yesterday said that she doesn't even miss it. I feel this is how most of the players feel as well. Otherwise they would have overrun all of Blizzards communication channels with bitching to the point a change or an announcement of a change would have been made to calm the angry majority.

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Blizz is making the polarization... not me. They are claiming that flight trivializes content and combat, and they have felt this way since TBC. If they felt that way, maybe someone could explain Wrath, Cata, and Mop. Maybe they could also explain flying mounts as achievement rewards and as cash sales on their website. If flight is so detrimental to the game, then why are these underhanded shysters still making money hand over fist when it comes to the cash shop? They need to pick a side and go with it. Either flight is the devil and should be removed entirely, or it is an amazing mechanic and should be added to Draenor. The middle of the road is a crappy place to be.

What polarization? The few people opposed on the forums and the handful of people each of you know in game that are upset? Again, I refer you to the dungeon loot fiasco. If it were this big of a deal we would have flying. It is not. Just accept it. As for it being detrimental, they knew it back then but were too afraid to close Pandora's box with a growing product. There might have been bigger backlash back then but now as they are are fixing a bunch of things removing flying for current content is perfectly fine. They have mingled with this idea in the last expansion. You will get your flying back either in the last patch or the 7.0 pre expansion patch. If they did this going forward I would be totally fine with it. If they added flying tomorrow I would be fine. I do not care either way. I enjoy the game regardless. Flying is just a convenience and I think they will take that approach forward. Grounded until the content is irrelevant.

[pankind]

Blizz is making the polarization... not me. They are claiming that flight trivializes content and combat, and they have felt this way since TBC. If they felt that way, maybe someone could explain Wrath, Cata, and Mop. Maybe they could also explain flying mounts as achievement rewards and as cash sales on their website. If flight is so detrimental to the game, then why are these underhanded shysters still making money hand over fist when it comes to the cash shop? They need to pick a side and go with it. Either flight is the devil and should be removed entirely, or it is an amazing mechanic and should be added to Draenor. The middle of the road is a crappy place to be.

Polarizing implies a certain amount of passion on both ends. It's just not the right verb to use here.

[SirBeef]

It's been going downhill since Wrath though, and it's not slowing down. At this rate it'll go F2P in one or two xpacks.
It may still be making good money but it sure as hell ain't doing as well as it could do.

Except for the 3m gain in subs in the last quarter and a bit. That has never happened since subs peaked at 12m.

[iperson]

Pretty much the flyers arguments in song form

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L

Given that ponies fly...

As for the purpose of this conversation, I too do all those things. Even now without flight. Would be much quicker and more convenient with flight, you know... like the last 8 years.

Yes, quicker and convenient equals improved gameplay. It would be quicker and more convenient to just receive a full set of each type of gear in the mail when your character hits 100, or better yet, just make characters start at 100 with all the gear in their bags. You see, quicker and convenient does not a valid argument make.

[Skalm]

Yes, quicker and convenient equals improved gameplay. It would be quicker and more convenient to just receive a full set of each type of gear in the mail when your character hits 100, or better yet, just make characters start at 100 with all the gear in their bags. You see, quicker and convenient does not a valid argument make.

Equating the convenience of flying to being given all possible gear does not make a valid argument either...

[SirBeef]

Pretty much the flyers arguments in song form

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L

Yes, quicker and convenient equals improved gameplay. It would be quicker and more convenient to just receive a full set of each type of gear in the mail when your character hits 100, or better yet, just make characters start at 100 with all the gear in their bags. You see, quicker and convenient does not a valid argument make.

That is the truth behind their argument. They want it faster and more convenient. How dare Blizzard make them play the game Blizzard wants them to. They all had the choice to vote with their wallets and pretty much all of them bought WoD and are still playing it. Yet again, if this was as big of a deal as the pro flyers say it is then flying would be back in or on its way with 6.1.

[Ferocity]

Except for the 3m gain in subs in the last quarter and a bit. That has never happened since subs peaked at 12m.

Don't know for others, but I'd rather have game with 1.2 mil subscribers or even less, I don't care, than "healthy" unstable game, which is being changed in favor of people who hated game and its gameplay in first place. WoW has flying ever since TBC. Colossal period. Don't like it - seek other game.

I don't care that some of those 3m people were WoW haters that hated flying in WoW. I don't care what people want WoW to be. I don't care that many people came for new pet battles, just to sub for a month, after year+ of SoO, etc. but I care about game being constantly changed in favor of those who are NOT playing and to appease mass market instead of in favor of those who ARE playing.

It is anti-flyers who should have left this game 6 or however much years ago if they don't like it so much. Anti-flyers should stop telling others that they play WoW wrong; I think it is them, anti-flyers, who play entirely wrong game.

Anyway initial rush is gone, barely anyone will bother to explore Draenor after hitting 100. With this and other changes, expect these 12m to drop to new low. How some people say: "One old friend is better than 100 new ones".

[Thyranne]

Except for the 3m gain in subs in the last quarter and a bit. That has never happened since subs peaked at 12m.

Those 3m gain came from the hype and marketing not because the game is awesome. The true test is Q1 and Q2 sub numbers.