Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[pankind]

That comparison is bad and you should feel bad. Let's ignore how flight points are effectively a several minute stun during which you are flown through the air in a completely uninteractive way. Having to "kill one specific mob" is a pretty rare occasion. You usually have to fight your way through the camp anyway as you need dropped items or a certain ammounts of kills or have to interact with certain items.

Then again, any other mob is effectively trash. They serve no purpose beyond annoying people, all that much more iv you're simply traversing something and these mobs aren't even part of the place you want to go or whatever you want to do. You bring up the FF series and ignore how you usually had the chance to altogether avoid many mobs by just happily running away from fights and how some games such as FF8 gave you an option to altogether turn off random encounters as they served no purpose which was promptly taken by many players and did not in any kind of way harm the game or diminished the fun one had while playing.

I'm a flight path fan even before this expansion, as I tend to want to tab out no matter what the method of flying happens to be. Speaking in terms of clearing areas, the new Harrison Jones quests are a good example of the intended interaction with the world. They take a little bit of time and I certainly made some pulls that I would have skipped in other expansions.

[CheeseSandwich]

I'm a flight path fan even before this expansion, as I tend to want to tab out no matter what the method of flying happens to be. Speaking in terms of clearing areas, the new Harrison Jones quests are a good example of the intended interaction with the world. They take a little bit of time and I certainly made some pulls that I would have skipped in other expansions.

So flight path away and pay no heed that those who rather fly themselves. How does other peoples travelling methods effect you?

So a good example of the justification of free flights removal are the HJ quests? Those 6 quests that are exactly like any other leveling quest? yeah, blizz certainly shook the mold up there, that 60 mins of questing time 4 months into an expac was totally worth neutering flight.

[itchy]

40,000+ posts, holy Jebus.

Just bring back flying for max level. It was a QOL improvement and simply 'fun'. Add a Q*Bert mini game for those of you who like puzzle jumping.

[Mafic]

New BG does nothing to the amount of content available for someone playing competitive pvp. More often than not, when they add a new bg or arena, pvp players end up wishing they hadn't, and that is why we didn't see any in this expansion. That's the beauty of pvp: it's replayability does not require new art or design, it comes from the players themselves and how they play the game.

I'm not sure what argument you were referring to, but you are obviously agreeing with me, that players who partake in all the major aspects of the game, are so overwhelmed with content that they can't be at all places that they would want to (in your example world pvp, but others opt out from raiding or doing garrison stuff, just so they could do world pvp).

No I am not agreeing with you. Let me be more explicit..I am not agreeing with you. Players that partake in all major aspects of the game currently in WoD are not overwhelmed. If you state an opinion like this you need to prove it. Right now we are seeing declining participation not only of top raiding guilds but also rated PVP players above 2400 based activity charts that MMO champion has posted on the very front page the last 3 weeks. Furthermore, the declining activity of the "top" players that you claim to be supposedly "overwhelmed" mirrors the decline with casual average players. The attrition rate is across the board uniformly consistent in terms of players logging in less and less.

Now, to your main thrust of your argument. A new BG adds more BG's in the queue system which only helps if players chooses to blacklist up to two battlegrounds for randoms. For rated play, adding another BG is also welcomed as it changes up strategies and also helps more specs into rated battleground play. For arena, introduction of new maps was a problem in the past because they were not uniformly consistent but that has changed.

PVP needs new maps, new BG's and new balancing of classes to continue thrive. There has not been anything of this sort.

As to how this pertains to no flying in WoD: World PVP is in its worst state because of garrisons, phase tech, Ashran (aka Ashtrash), and guess what? You can't blame flying mounts as a scapegoat for world PVP suffering anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

40,000+ posts, holy Jebus.

Just bring back flying for max level. It was a QOL improvement and simply 'fun'. Add a Q*Bert mini game for those of you who like puzzle jumping.

We will have to wait till patch 6.2 to see where this goes IMO.

[Sweetpeaz]

I'm missing flight less and less.....now that I purchased and have been playing Pillars of Eternity. It looks like my path back towards WoW has been lengthened by a few more months.

[Beazy]

You can't blame flying mounts as a scapegoat for world PVP suffering anymore.

You never could, anyone who played in Vanilla, knows beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Battle Group BG queues ruined world PvP. Lack of rewards for world PvP and no support of World PvP, also helped contribute to non existent world PvP.

Besides, the argument was crushed when Blizzard showed how much flying didnt hurt PvP by adding a flying book for druids in Trashran. That argument has been crushed.

[Elim Garak]

To quote blizzard about the Honor/Dishonor system of Vanilla:

"Once Battlegrounds are released the amount of player-vs-player conflicts found around the world will most likely decrease significantly. The same goes for ganking found in the contested zones around Azeroth. Fighting in the Battlegrounds will yield far more contribution points than fighting anywhere else. With that said, players who chose to create characters on a PvP realm are supposed to feel a sense of danger where ever they go, that is why we offer player-vs-player realms!"

In case there's still confusion: BLIZZARD KILLED WORLD PVP ON PURPOSE.

[RReds]

Hey guys!
No flying in Netherlands today! Ask people that stuck in unpowered airport if they like it.

[rda]

I'm missing flight less and less.....now that I purchased and have been playing Pillars of Eternity. It looks like my path back towards WoW has been lengthened by a few more months.

I am not missing it at all already either, switched from playing WoW to doing other things.

It'd be an epic ending of this thread, if, say, Blizzard dragged their feet on both flight and WoD in general for like one more year, and all those who were arguing for flying - as well as those who were arguing against - just quit, exchanging "peace out bro, I am done"s. :-)

[Deleted]

To quote blizzard about the Honor/Dishonor system of Vanilla:

"Once Battlegrounds are released the amount of player-vs-player conflicts found around the world will most likely decrease significantly. The same goes for ganking found in the contested zones around Azeroth. Fighting in the Battlegrounds will yield far more contribution points than fighting anywhere else. With that said, players who chose to create characters on a PvP realm are supposed to feel a sense of danger where ever they go, that is why we offer player-vs-player realms!"

In case there's still confusion: BLIZZARD KILLED WORLD PVP ON PURPOSE.

If you read only what you want to see, you are going to stay awfully confused about the design in WoW also in the future.

What you quoted, were all good things for world pvp in the end. Servers (and CPUs) could not handle the large scale wpvp at the time. Zergs were not fun to pvp'ers nor other people trying to play in the zone. When you got in to TM/SS or say Auberdine, first thing you could do is to go make some coffee, because it would take a while before your sceen would unfreeze, and you could start playing. I doubt silithus wpvp would have been nearly as fun, if everyone from bg's would have been there to lag it up every day, every moment (think opening of AQ).

Now, there is actually a part in that quote that has direct relation with disabling flying and that is; "[...]players who chose to create characters on a PvP realm are supposed to feel a sense of danger where ever they go, that is why we offer player-vs-player realms"

So no, they did not want to kill world pvp, if anything they wanted it to be playable, but from a design point of view, designing and introducing battlegrounds had nothing to do with world pvp (meaning that whether wpvp and ganking existed or not, battlegrounds were gonna come out anyway).

[Beazy]

Now, there is actually a part in that quote that has direct relation with disabling flying and that is; "[...]players who chose to create characters on a PvP realm are supposed to feel a sense of danger where ever they go, that is why we offer player-vs-player realms"

No, its not. That quote was made before Flying was ever announced.
There is absolutely no relation. . . . the WoW engine, at that time, did not support free form player flight. . . . . .


Jeez, you guys keep grasping at so many straws ~ and McDonalds is going to have to start using sippy` cups.

[Elim Garak]

If you read only what you want to see, you are going to stay awfully confused about the design in WoW also in the future.

What you quoted, were all good things for world pvp in the end. Servers (and CPUs) could not handle the large scale wpvp at the time.

Haha. Omg. I, on purpose, omitted the question that quote answers. And here you are making a silly counter-argument.

The question was about GANKING. Not CPUs.

[Wrathonia]

If you read only what you want to see, you are going to stay awfully confused about the design in WoW also in the future.

What you quoted, were all good things for world pvp in the end. Servers (and CPUs) could not handle the large scale wpvp at the time. Zergs were not fun to pvp'ers nor other people trying to play in the zone. When you got in to TM/SS or say Auberdine, first thing you could do is to go make some coffee, because it would take a while before your sceen would unfreeze, and you could start playing. I doubt silithus wpvp would have been nearly as fun, if everyone from bg's would have been there to lag it up every day, every moment (think opening of AQ).

Now, there is actually a part in that quote that has direct relation with disabling flying and that is; "[...]players who chose to create characters on a PvP realm are supposed to feel a sense of danger where ever they go, that is why we offer player-vs-player realms"

So no, they did not want to kill world pvp, if anything they wanted it to be playable, but from a design point of view, designing and introducing battlegrounds had nothing to do with world pvp (meaning that whether wpvp and ganking existed or not, battlegrounds were gonna come out anyway).

Wait, wait, wait, wait. You are bringing up the lolsand patch as a positive pvp venue? Hahahaha, wow, I can't take anything you say seriously ever again.

[Deleted]

No, its not. That quote was made before Flying was ever announced.
There is absolutely no relation. . . . the WoW engine, at that time, did not support free form player flight. . . . . .

You had a bit of bad luck while reading. It has direct meaning to disabling flying, as in they still want players in pvp servers to feel at danger wherever they go. Flying as it was in WoW, did not allow it, no matter how hard they tried.

P.S WoW engine absolutely supported free flying in vanilla, some got to experience it through bugs, and at the time it was the go to movement option for GMs traveling short distances. There were no animations or mounts though (even flying path bug only allowed the mount to 'fly' in ground), so it looked like you were swimming in the air.

Haha. Omg. I, on purpose, omitted the question that quote answers. And here you are making a silly counter-argument.

The question was about GANKING. Not CPUs.

No, your arguments was that A) BGs were introduced to kill wpvp and B) that they infact killed wpvp, and both of them are wrong. because, like I explained, BGs made the world pvp better, unless you for some reason enjoyed the laggy zerg more, than the smaller scale and more unexpected wpvp, that dungeon entraces, bg entraces, green dragons and silithus for example provided.

BG's had almost no effect on ganking. That was later solved by server transfers, as majority of people complaining about ganking had come to pvp server without knowing what they were getting in to, as many just followed their friend who perhaps had more mmo experience, so he naturally wanted to get the full experience at pvp server (dangerous world wherever you go, not being a carebear etc.)

- - - Updated - - -

Wait, wait, wait, wait. You are bringing up the lolsand patch as a positive pvp venue? Hahahaha, wow, I can't take anything you say seriously ever again.

No, I'm bringing up the Cenarion Hold and Silithus summoning grind. Perhaps a bit before your time? Again, if you don't know, just ask and I will give you a polite explanation, no need to take the attitude, even if you don't like the facts.

[pankind]

So flight path away and pay no heed that those who rather fly themselves. How does other peoples travelling methods effect you?

It doesn't.

So a good example of the justification of free flights removal are the HJ quests? Those 6 quests that are exactly like any other leveling quest? yeah, blizz certainly shook the mold up there, that 60 mins of questing time 4 months into an expac was totally worth neutering flight.

Justification != example of intended interaction. One is what I said, the other thing is the word you put in my mouth. I also don't remember praising the Harrison Jones quests in any way. If flight was on, I'd be floating around to look for the items and dropping in on them and only killing what is necessary. It'd be the most efficient. I don't particularly care that I was "forced" to kill mobs, that's a personal issue to which others will differ.

[Elim Garak]

No, your arguments was that A) BGs were introduced to kill wpvp and B) that they infact killed wpvp, and both of them are wrong.

O-k-e-y [backs away slowly]

[pankind]

To quote blizzard about the Honor/Dishonor system of Vanilla:

"Once Battlegrounds are released the amount of player-vs-player conflicts found around the world will most likely decrease significantly. The same goes for ganking found in the contested zones around Azeroth. Fighting in the Battlegrounds will yield far more contribution points than fighting anywhere else. With that said, players who chose to create characters on a PvP realm are supposed to feel a sense of danger where ever they go, that is why we offer player-vs-player realms!"

In case there's still confusion: BLIZZARD KILLED WORLD PVP ON PURPOSE.

Back in those days the honor grinders would set their hearth to Kargath and go roaming blackrock mountain for extra honor kills waiting for queue to pop. You don't need to look any further than the plethora of vanilla world-PVP videos released long after BG's to know that it still occured. For that matter wpvp is still active in Hellfire, Tanaris, and Hyjal, the main issue being that flight makes it "lame" to use a tame forum-accept word.

[Elim Garak]

Back in those days the honor grinders would set their hearth to Kargath and go roaming blackrock mountain for extra honor kills waiting for queue to pop. You don't need to look any further than the plethora of vanilla world-PVP videos released long after BG's to know that it still occured. For that matter wpvp is still active in Hellfire, Tanaris, and Hyjal, the main issue being that flight makes it "lame" to use a tame forum-accept word.

Of course it occurred. Due to gankers. Because the quickest way to farm HK was to do WG and AB. So only gankers remained in the world.

And FUCK THEM

[Beazy]

You had a bit of bad luck while reading. It has direct meaning to disabling flying, as in they still want players in pvp servers to feel at danger wherever they go. Flying as it was in WoW, did not allow it, no matter how hard they tried.

P.S WoW engine absolutely supported free flying in vanilla, some got to experience it through bugs, and at the time it was the go to movement option for GMs traveling short distances. There were no animations or mounts though (even flying path bug only allowed the mount to 'fly' in ground), so it looked like you were swimming in the air.

Read harder, I specifically said "free form PLAYER flight", game masters continue to have means of moving in the game world that players dont have. . . .and will continue to. . . .. for obvious reasons.

And Flying does not hurt PvP, Blizzard added flying book to Ashran, the only new PvP encounter in WoD. And currently the ONLY place you can fly in WoD. Blizzard simply does not agree with you, now matter how much you think they do.

You will have to try harder. Keep grasping, you almost have ALL THE STRAWZ!

[Mafic]

You never could, anyone who played in Vanilla, knows beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Battle Group BG queues ruined world PvP. Lack of rewards for world PvP and no support of World PvP, also helped contribute to non existent world PvP.

Besides, the argument was crushed when Blizzard showed how much flying didnt hurt PvP by adding a flying book for druids in Trashran. That argument has been crushed.

I agree. Don't forget Avianna's feather.