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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Werrezer View Post
    You can't compare those things at all.
    I can't wait for your explanation as to why...

  2. #122
    If you think the right is harming nobody and just "expressing their views" then you'd be sadly mistaken. Also, just because YOU don't personally go out and bully gays, but throw your vote at people you do, that's just telling someone else to do the bullying for you.

    If anything, the most appropriate analogy is that the bully believes that it is his God-given right (quite literally believes this) to bully, and is now screaming that he is being told to stop beating up other kids.
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    I'm probably the nicest person on this whole damned forum, and you can make a sig from that.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZK203 View Post
    Just have a sig that says "I'm Batman."

  3. #123
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    How do they not compare? Religion was used against those too. Interrational marriage... they found a way, also slavery was ok. Women being subject to men, etc.

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  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Werrezer View Post
    You can't compare those things at all.
    You do realize how fast the law to allow gays to be discriminated against was shot down, don't you? Or were you mentally absent from that whole debacle?
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    I'm probably the nicest person on this whole damned forum, and you can make a sig from that.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZK203 View Post
    Just have a sig that says "I'm Batman."

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by spinner981 View Post
    Her views are based on her beliefs... and yours aren't?
    Did you read my edit? Or the more articulate version Endus posted?

    Quote Originally Posted by gamz247 View Post
    Chik-Fil-A's business certainly hasn't suffered after all their hullabaloo.
    I'm more amazed their business hasn't suffered due to lack of quality, but that's just my perspective on food. (I'll take a McD chicken sandwich before Chik-Fil-A... yup).
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    If anybody is thinking of buying me a gift I would much rather they just donate that money to charity instead.
    chicken kiev

  6. #126
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    oh look this is from another country


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  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    You do realize how fast the law to allow gays to be discriminated against was shot down, don't you? Or were you mentally absent from that whole debacle?
    This might be insensitive, but at this point I pretty much call it "Getting USS Arizona'd"
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    If anybody is thinking of buying me a gift I would much rather they just donate that money to charity instead.
    chicken kiev

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This wasn't right when it was refusing service to blacks. It wasn't right when it was refusing service to women. It wasn't right when it was refusing service to interracial couples. Why would it be right if it's refusing service to gay people?

    If you're refusing service to someone because you're bigoted against them, you're in the wrong. It really is that simple.
    I agree it's not right. But his point was no one will get trampled on. And clearly someone will.

  9. #129
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    How terrible you choose to provide a service and you might accidentally wish a good day or a happy day to someone WHOSE GAY!!

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  10. #130
    This is actaully a good thing for gay people. Stay with me on this...

    Michelle Bachmann is so hopelessly clueless, so idiotic, so completely out of touch with the political theatre (or reality for that matter) that anything she says discredits not only herself but her party in general. Spouting blatently untrue statements at random as if they were facts actually proves the opposite to a wider audience. An backwards idiot yells "Gays bullied the American People" so now the rest of us are aware that "Gay people have been victims of abusive behavior by many Americans for some time now and it has got to come to an end."

    In short Michelle Bachmann is Jesse to the Republican Party's Team Rocket. Its a good thing she's on their side ensuring a swift defeat after a impromtu ill-conceived agenda that only serves to make her organization out to be well known incompetent asshats.

    Less comical note: she is an attention whore who will say anything retarded if it guarantees her screen time. My advice if people want an attractive candidate at don't vote for the leathery bigoted bimbo approaching aging Vegas stripper with the sandbag boobs age. She ain't that pretty to excuse being this stupid.
    Last edited by Lastlivingsoul; 2014-03-11 at 05:46 AM.

  11. #131
    Listen, the Bible is very clear. Leviticus 20:13 “If a man sells cupcakes to a homo, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Nostop it View Post
    I agree it's not right. But his point was no one will get trampled on. And clearly someone will.
    How was it any different with those other issues? I don't feel very sad if a bigot has to evolve.

  13. #133
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werrezer View Post
    You can't compare those things at all.
    The only real difference is that you generally can't tell at a glance if someone's gay, while it's usually fairly clear what their race or gender might be (or more specifically, that it isn't what you find "acceptable").

    Otherwise, homophobia is in no way different from racism or misogyny. It's part of your beliefs? Both racism and misogyny have as much or greater support in scripture as homophobia does. The Klu Klux Clan is overtly Christian; that's why they use a burning cross as a symbol. There are myriad passages in the Bible stating that women are inferior to men, in many ways. Nor is this unique to Christianity; these can be found in other faiths as well, and I'm only mentioning Christian belief here specifically because it's the grounds typically used in the USA to defend this kind of belief.

    And it is never valid. It wasn't for hate based on race. It wasn't for hate based on gender. It won't for hate based on sexual orientation. The church adapts. Plenty of denominations are moving forward, and are welcoming to people of all races, genders, and orientations, equally. I know at least one local church with an openly gay pastor, another friend of the family is a woman, and a minister. The issue isn't that Christian beliefs are being oppressed; they aren't. Hateful beliefs are being exposed as what they are. And hate isn't a necessary or integral component to the Christian message.

    These things are completely comparable, since they're almost completely identical. There is no reason to oppose marriage equality. None but hate, at least.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    This might be insensitive, but at this point I pretty much call it "Getting USS Arizona'd"
    I kind of wanted that bill to pass, if only because I knew it would have been shot down very fast, and every time something that extreme has passed these days it's come with extreme backlash, and we would have seen those terrible politicians out of office.
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    I'm probably the nicest person on this whole damned forum, and you can make a sig from that.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZK203 View Post
    Just have a sig that says "I'm Batman."

  15. #135
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Listen, the Bible is very clear. Leviticus 20:13 “If a man sells cupcakes to a homo, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."
    Alright now its fair to all... KILL EVERYONE lol

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  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    oh look this is from another country
    you know, the jews have been kicked out of just about every country they've ever inhabited/co-opted; by the native people of said countries.

    there comes a time when you have to eventually ask yourself, 'are they the problem, or is the rest of the world the problem?'

    no i don't advocate genocide of the jews, i think most of them are decent people. but i find it utterly fascinating that this has occurred over the last 1800 years.

    Expulsions of Jews from Host Nations: 1). A.D. 250, Carthage; 2). 415, Alexandria; 3). 554, Diocese of Clement (France); 4). 561, Diocese of Uzzes (France); 5). 612, Visigoth Spain; 6). 642, Visigoth Empire; 7). 855, Italy; 8). 876, Sens; 9). 1012, Mayence; 10). 1181, France; 11). 1290, England; 12). 1306, France; 13). 1348, Switzerland; 14). 1349, Hielbronn (Germany); 15). 1349, Hungary; 16). 1388, Strasbourg; 17). 1394, Germany; 18). 1394, France; 19). 1422, Austria; 20). 1424, Fribourg & Zurich; 21). 1426, Cologne; 22). 1432, Savory; 23). 1438, Mainz; 24). 1439, Augsburg; 25). 1446, Bavaria; 26). 1453, Franconis; 27). 1453, Breslau; 28). 1454, Wurzburg; 29). 1485, Vincenza (Italy); 30). 1492, Spain; 31). 1495, Lithuania; 32). 1497, Portugal; 33). 1499, Germany; 34). 1514, Strasbourg; 35). 1519, Regensburg; 36). 1540, Naples; 37). 1542, Bohemia; 38). 1550, Genoa; 39). 1551, Bavaria; 40). 1555, Pesaro; 41). 1559, Austria; 42). 1561, Prague; 43). 1567, Wurzburg, Genoese Republic; 44). 1569, Papal States; 45). 1571, Brandenburg; 46). 1582, Netherlands; 47). 1593, Brandenburg, Austria; 48). 1597, Cremona, Pavia & Lodi; 49). 1614, Frankfort; 50). 1615, Worms; 51). 1619, Kiev; 52). 1649, Ukraine; 53). 1654, LittleRussia; 54). 1656, Lithuania; 55). 1669, Oran (North Africa); 56). 1670, Vienna; 57). 1712, Sandomir; 58). 1727, Russia; 59). 1738, Wurtemburg; 60). 1740, LittleRussia; 61). 1744, Bohemia; 62). 1744, Livonia; 63). 1745, Moravia; 64). 1753, Kovad (Lithuania); 65). 1761, Bordeaux; 66). 1772, Jews deported to the Pale of Settlement (Russia); 67). 1775, Warsaw; 68). 1789, Alace; 69). 1804, Villages in Russia; 70). 1808, Villages & Countrysides (Russia); 71). 1815, Lubeck & Bremen; 72). 1815, Franconia, Swabia & Bavaria; 73). 1820, Bremes; 74). 1843, Russian Border Austria & Prussia; 75). 1862, Area in the U.S. under Grant's Jurisdiction; 76). 1866, Galatz, Romania; 77). 1919, Bavaria (foreign born Jews); 78). 1938-45, Nazi Controlled Areas; 79). 1948, Arab Countries. (International Jewish Encyclopedia).

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    I kind of wanted that bill to pass, if only because I knew it would have been shot down very fast, and every time something that extreme has passed these days it's come with extreme backlash, and we would have seen those terrible politicians out of office.
    I'm more curious as to how much that law would have conflicted with the federal civil rights laws I referenced earlier.

    That would have been the best protest ever: if the law had passed, Arizona state law would permit business to refuse services to gays/lesbians, but federal law would prohibit those same business from refusing to hire them because they're gay/lesbian. Anytime they're refused service, they just start submitting applications and getting hired (or giving themselves perfect grounds for a lawsuit).

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    Oh. I must have missed when gays were given the right to marry in every state of the Union. Can you point out which day that happened on?
    I think it was the same day that heterosexuals were given the right to marry in every state of the union. Now, if you are referring to new rights, like being able to marry the same gender, then that's a different story. However, those new rights would be new to everyone. I know this isn't an acceptable answer to people, but when they say "equal rights" I take them at their word. Gays have equal rights, that's a fact. If you want to nitpick and call new rights (that haven't been available to anyone) then call them "new rights" not equal rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    You do realize that the right as well as judeo-christianity has been not only violently persecuting gays for... hundreds of years, but here in the US, it's not just calling their way of life lame, it's actively using the power of government to persecute them, or stop them from living the life they want which harms no one.

    If you believe that anti-gay legislation is in any way harmful to no one, you are so far removed from reality, it may not even be worth trying to explain it to you, because your mental block will clearly prevent you from ever even acknowledging anything.

    People vote for these jokes of politicians. These politicians push for anti-gay legislation, which hurts people. That is bullying. These people want equal rights. Giving them equal rights does not hurt anyone in any way, other than the hyper religious zealots who think it's their right to persecute other people, and get mad that they can't.

    Pretending that the right doesn't hurt anyone with their hateful legislation is delusional at best.
    Uuuh... when did we start talking about anti-gay legislation? I thought we were talking about intolerance. Perhaps you misquoted... or perhaps you are just trying to change the subject with a red herring. Do you feel like actually responding to my post instead of falling back on the usual biased finger pointing/wagging and slander?

    Quote Originally Posted by Herradura View Post
    This is the fatal flaw of your reasoning. It's not about tolerance of beliefs, it's about tolerance of people. If your beliefs involve intolerance, perhaps your walk of life is invalid and not deserving of... tolerance.
    It's entirely about intolerance of beliefs. If I disagree with homosexuality, I don't disagree with the existence of people who call themselves LGBT; I don't think they should just stop existing. I disagree with the idea of homosexuality, which isn't a person. There is no specific person or people I disagree with the existence of, but rather I disagree with an idea and belief in general.

    Once again with people just playing semantics and trying to change words around to make people sound bad. Also, conjecture, lots of conjecture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    All you're doing is demonstrating that you have no idea what the call for tolerance was.

    Tolerance itself was never stated to be always-good. There was never a statement that everything and anything must be tolerated, and that this statement is now being contradicted. The point was always that one should be specifically tolerant of superficial differences that have no effect on your personal life. That, specifically. Not tolerance itself.

    The whole "you can't be intolerant of my intolerance or you're a hypocrite" is the "evolution is just a theory" argument all over again; all it does is demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the terminology in question.

    Nobody ever suggested anyone should be tolerant of bigotry. Or murder. Or theft. And so on. Those aren't superificial characteristics that have no effect on anyone else's life; they all explicitly and directly have a negative impact, and they are all expressed action, not superficial characteritistics. Comparing the two is deliberately misleading.

    It's dishonest. It really is that simple.

    But then, you'll also state outright lies like this, too.
    I still don't know where this moral absolute is that says that if somebody doesn't directly impact you, then what they are doing is perfectly acceptable. Also, once again, you say that you should be able to tolerate bigotry and then people just go define bigotry as whatever they please, even when their definition and the dictionary definition are both very different.

    It's not a lie, it's just that the LGBT supporting community don't know what equal rights mean, and they instead refer to the gaining of new rights as the gaining of equal rights. Heterosexuals have never been able to marry those of the same sex as well. Ya, people rage and don't find that answer acceptable, but it's a fact. I am not lying, you are all just the ones manipulating words and using them incorrectly to make your statements sound more impacting.

    I am trying to go about this 'topic' in a way other than resorting to the whole 'definition of morality' thing again, which seems to always span multiple pages and commonly gets threads locked.
    Last edited by spinner981; 2014-03-11 at 05:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    History had Einstein and Aristotle, we have spinner981.
    It's just uncanny: http://i.imgur.com/hm7XMCo.png

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There is no reason to oppose marriage equality. None but hate, at least.
    So do you support polygamy?

  20. #140
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    If I had to take a guess.... they are considered foreign, they have a separate religion, they cant even honor your countries gods, in all honesty they were basically like modern immigrants in an American/European perspective. Also I would say the European countries (later on) were using a lot of history and even that old dark age propaganda of Jews poisoning wells.

    Also a ton of the earlier countries were heavily christian and likely threw out any other non Christians.


    Also WAAAYYY to easy of a target, they are sorta foreign, have a different heritage, language, culture... easy target. ALso they are always considered powerful and affluent while.... not even close to being so in reality until recently in the U.S especially.
    Last edited by GennGreymane; 2014-03-11 at 05:52 AM.

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