[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Simulacrum]

Captain America is trained in multiple martial arts and many other skills and disciplines. Now dont get me wrong Spiderman has more powers going for him. But he has never been trained to fight and his fighting style is just fluid movements.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...man+534+17.jpg

This scene is stupid as fuck, of course. Spider-Man is more than ten times as strong as Captain America. I'm sure he's faster too, and on top of that he literally predicts the future with his overpowered as fuck spider sense. Who needs martial arts when you predict all your opponent's moves before they even make them, and your body reacts faster than theirs can even move? Captain America trying to hit spidey should be no more effective than any other single opponent trying to hit him.

Of course, Spider-Man has always had the opposite problem from the advantage that that Captain America has. Where cap always somehow manages to stand up to opponents who should tear him to shreds like he's not even there, spidey has a long history of getting his ass handed to him by opponents who shouldn't stand a chance against him at all. Yeah, somehow he can dodge multiple assault riles at close range being shot straight into him, but if doctor octopus throws one of his stupid mechanical arms at him (or captain america tries to land a super slow blow that spidey can see coming from miles away) spidey is like a deer in headlights. I guess they're a perfect match for each other, in that sense.

Anyway, that's all besides the point I was trying to make about Captain America's real super power being his plot armor and plot weapon, which keeps letting him fight opponents that shouldn't even notice that he's there.

[Fencers]

Officially, according to Marvel-

Strength Capacity
Captain America: 800 lbs-25 ton range
Spider-Man: 25-75 ton range

Fighting Ability
Captain America: Master of several forms of combat
Spider-Man: Master of a single form of combat

Cap and Spidey are considered equal in Intellect and Durability.

[Simulacrum]

Captain America's in the "800 lbs-25 ton range" at 1200 lbs, which is nowhere even close to the 10-40 tons that spidey has depending on the incarnation.

Spidey is also fast enough to literally dodge gunfire.

The only area in which cap has him beat is fighting skills, but those doesn't really matter much when your opponent is ten times stronger than you and is fast enough to dodge all your attacks anyway, unless your fists are somehow faster than bullets.

I used spidey as a comparison since I figured nobody would seriously argue that they were in the same league, but I see now that this was a mistake.

[Immitis]

Heh, just had the most onesided debate ever...

Just hanging out with some friends, one guy tries to spark a conversation with "Hey, who do you think would win. Warrior Madness Thor or Worldbreaker Hulk"

It took all of 5 seconds for us all to reply "Warrior Madness Thor!" We tried to debate it but... Yeah, no.

hulk has infinite potential for strength. he just has to get mad enough

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This scene is stupid as fuck, of course. Spider-Man is more than ten times as strong as Captain America. I'm sure he's faster too, and on top of that he literally predicts the future with his overpowered as fuck spider sense. Who needs martial arts when you predict all your opponent's moves before they even make them, and your body reacts faster than theirs can even move? Captain America trying to hit spidey should be no more effective than any other single opponent trying to hit him.

Of course, Spider-Man has always had the opposite problem from the advantage that that Captain America has. Where cap always somehow manages to stand up to opponents who should tear him to shreds like he's not even there, spidey has a long history of getting his ass handed to him by opponents who shouldn't stand a chance against him at all. Yeah, somehow he can dodge multiple assault riles at close range being shot straight into him, but if doctor octopus throws one of his stupid mechanical arms at him (or captain america tries to land a super slow blow that spidey can see coming from miles away) spidey is like a deer in headlights. I guess they're a perfect match for each other, in that sense.

Anyway, that's all besides the point I was trying to make about Captain America's real super power being his plot armor and plot weapon, which keeps letting him fight opponents that shouldn't even notice that he's there.

cap won against spidey by tricking him, not from "a super slow punch he could see coming a mile away"




spideys biggest flaw is that hes cocky. and his spider-sense isnt super psychic future vision. it warns him of danger but its just as easily tricked as any other sense

[Simulacrum]

spideys biggest flaw is that hes cocky. and his spider-sense isnt super psychic future vision. it warns him of danger but its just as easily tricked as any other sense

If spidey was this slow, he'd have gotten killed ages ago by some random asshole shooting at him, considering his entire adolescence was spent engaging various gangs of armed lunatics in combat with his bare hands while they shot at him from every direction with every weapon you can imagine. Y'know, he likes to stand in the middle of as many enemies as possible. That's where he thrives. Two threats at once is nothing to him; his fighting style is designed around engaging multiple threats at the same time. He took on the entire X-men once and won thanks to it. To say that he'd be tricked by a single projectile is ridiculous.

[Fencers]

I used spidey as a comparison since I figured nobody would seriously argue that they were in the same league, but I see now that this was a mistake.

I am merely relaying what Marvel officially states for the two heroes.

From a character standpoint, to put it bluntly Spider-Man is "bad" at being a hero. He's sorta meant to be a screw-up; the 'Parker Luck', the iconic slumped shoulders. His moral standing and intent is usually supreme, but Spider-Man's actual hero-ing is kinda awful.

Captain America Steve Rogers is intended to be the opposite- he is the ideal solider, the ideal American. Cap isn't bad at hero-ing, so to speak.

Ability is one thing, but it is the intention of the Marvel universe that Spider-Man always ends up screwing up something just as he thinks he fixes another. It is the intention that Steve Rogers succeeds through exemplary character and determination where others do not.

[Zoaric]

What kind of armor is Tony wearing in Civil War?

I think it's a far weaker (than the comics) version of the Bleeding Edge armor, Model 37.

[Cattleya]

Pretty sure Captain America's greatest power is that the authors just scale his powers up to the level of the situation he's in whether it makes sense or not. Spider-Man is a way more powerful individual than cap, and spidey is basically a gnat compared to many of the enemies that cap somehow manages to go toe-to-toe with on a daily basis.

Let's face it, this is pretty much how it goes with almost every superhero. If the writers decide they want that specific hero to win, then you're damn right he/she'll win, generally-accepted power levels be damned.

[Kelimbror]

Let's face it, this is pretty much how it goes with almost every superhero. If the writers decide they want that specific hero to win, then you're damn right he/she'll win, generally-accepted power levels be damned.

That's because all story writing isn't binary. There's more than power out and power in. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to craft a universe or tell stories b/c one person would just kill everyone and that would be it. Sometimes the mechanism for creating diversity in conflict feels off, but usually it's ok which is the whole point of these stories. There has to be a conflict beyond power comparisons otherwise we're just analyzing numbers in a spreadsheet instead of telling stories.

[Gallahadd]

While I agree most of the time Kelimbror, there are some cases where it's just silly. It's totally fine for power levels to have SOME variance, but when you suddenly have someone with very little power taking out a titan... Things get silly.

And no I'm not talking about Squirrel girl

[BloodyAngel12]

While I agree most of the time Kelimbror, there are some cases where it's just silly. It's totally fine for power levels to have SOME variance, but when you suddenly have someone with very little power taking out a titan... Things get silly.

And no I'm not talking about Squirrel girl

Squirrel girl netflix series when?

[Kelimbror]

While I agree most of the time Kelimbror, there are some cases where it's just silly. It's totally fine for power levels to have SOME variance, but when you suddenly have someone with very little power taking out a titan... Things get silly.

And no I'm not talking about Squirrel girl

Ok good, because she gave Galactus an entire planet of nuts to eat so ofc he didn't want to eat Earth anymore. But yeah, it can get silly. I don't know that it has happened recently, in what I feel is really a Renaissance of comics right now...but in the past I'm sure it happened a lot.

I haven't seen the last few issues of Secret Wars to know if they've dethroned Doom yet, but the entire concept of Molecule man and Doom becoming God is the most recent large power discrepancy and it handled all of these things quite nicely.

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Squirrel girl netflix series when?

There have been talks...whispers. I think it would more likely get a modernized cartoon series in line with her current run at college. Tippy Toe would be annoying to either create with CGI for a TV show or as a real squirrel.

[Gallahadd]

I haven't seen the last few issues of Secret Wars to know if they've dethroned Doom yet, but the entire concept of Molecule man and Doom becoming God is the most recent large power discrepancy and it handled all of these things quite nicely.

They're not really worth reading... Secret Wars has been a HUGE disappointment for me.

Out of interest, why is Doom/Molecule Man becoming god such a huge leap? Isn't MM meant to be one of the most powerful beings in creation? Then Doom is no pushover (despite the fact he routinely gets punked by the Failtastic Four )

[BloodyAngel12]

Would like to see Squirrel girl being Luke and Jessica's nanny in a couple of seasons time.

[Kelimbror]

Out of interest, why is Doom/Molecule Man becoming god such a huge leap? Isn't MM meant to be one of the most powerful beings in creation?

I was referring to them being subjegated/defeated by lesser powered beings in line with our conversation, not them having those powers. Doom is defeated, otherwise the universe wouldn't be 'restored', but I haven't read how that goes down nor how Dr Strange was brought back to life.

I'm assuming Reed Richards gained control of the powers and set things back to quasi normality. And I found Secret Wars material to be pretty cool so far. The scenes between Strange and Doom were really good, but I liked the side books more than the main story. Witchhunter Angela, Starlord and Kitty, and Thors were some of my favorites...oh and MODOK Assassin was amazing.

[Fencers]

I suspect Molecule Man is the new Galactus-being at the end of Secret Wars. Haven't read the latest issue though- I just got a feeling Hickman is going in this direction based on his early FF run.

[pateuvasiliu]

Waaaait are people comparing Spider-man to Captain America? Because... they're nowhere near.

[Immitis]

Waaaait are people comparing Spider-man to Captain America? Because... they're nowhere near.

exactly, but cap still wins the fight because peter is arrogant and cocky and doesnt plan ahead wheras cap is a soldier and a brilliant strategist.

[Poppincaps]

Finally got around to watching Ant Man. I thought it was pretty funny. I think they used too much humor in the fight with Yellow Jacket but other than that I thought the movie was a lot of fun. I think it's really cool that Marvel (and Disney) are in a place where they allow Jessica Jones and Ant Man to exist in the same Universe alongside Captain America and Guardians of the Galaxy. Cool stuff.

[pateuvasiliu]

exactly, but cap still wins the fight because peter is arrogant and cocky and doesnt plan ahead wheras cap is a soldier and a brilliant strategist.

You realise all Spiderman needs to do is punch him once to break every bone in his body? That he's faster, stronger, has better reflexes, can stick to walls and can just cover him with web?