[Movie/TV/Comic] Marvel Cinematic Universe: A place to talk all things Marvel

[Val the Moofia Boss]

'Been thinking about the ending credits statute-panorama scene of Age of Ultron.

Is it me, or are the Avengers being depicted as mythological gods the like Roman or Nordic deities?

[Immitis]

There was clearly a racist component to the complaints though. I didn't see anyone saying "well if Trank really wanted his buddy Micheal in the film he should have cast a black Sue as well."

i did, casting a white susan storm to me screamed "we want pr points for a black person but fear a loss in revenue if we have an interracial couple"

if they made sue black i wouldnt have minded

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A lot of Marvel's 'weaknesses' have evolved to represent real conflicts and struggles instead of a stereotypical neutralizer. Instead of Kryptonite they have moral struggles, emotional issues, and things that require their brain to piece together. I'd prefer the latter personally.

I mean they just wrote an entire brand changing event that had Doom with the literal power of God and he's still going to be defeated since the world is put back together. It wasn't b/c someone found a loophole in his God powers that allowed them to go in and punch him to death, but b/c people used research, intelligence, and emotions to win the day.

Jane Foster has all the awesome power of Thor, but is dying of cancer and is a step closer to death every time she wields it.

idk, have you seen doom in the new world? hes got a pretty face, he uses magic like hes 10 dr stranges and he seems to be a good guy from his interactions with tony. whatever happens to doom things worked out pretty well for him

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Really, I think a big problem is the continuity. I stopped reading decades ago, because I just got tired of the Next Big Thing to happen to characters I liked. I understand super heroes need to have conflict, but they never seemed to just have a normal life either. There is no ending, they don't have Spiderman do stuff then retire and another hero take over, his story never really ends. And don't get me wrong, the core fans seem to like that for the most part. They would rather have a new Spiderman comic than some different hero.

The entire situation is sort of screwed. You can't replace the Hulk because everyone wants the Hulk, but if you have a new Hulk, that sucks too because they don't want some new changed Hulk, they want the Hulk they know! Like Thor, there have been various Thor replacement stories, just as there are alternate Hulks, but folks don't like them because they're not Thor/Hulk, but they also don't want FemThor or AwesomeHulk. I was tired of Wolverine 20 years ago, I don't need more Wolverine or a female Wolverine or whatever new variation they try.

BUUUUT, I'm not their core audience either. I haven't bought comic books in those same 20 years. Same with these changes, are actual comic book fans going to buy new Awesome Hulk? Are they really thinking they'll get MORE readers through diversifying this niche market? If anything I'd think the movies would be the scene for the diversity, since they have much more mass market appeal than the actual comic books.

well, female thor has been pretty consistently outselling old thor, so most comic fans seem to like her more than regular thor, spider-gwen sells pretty good as well, miles doesnt sell as much as peter but is still one of marvels biggest heroes.

and ms marvel has a huge online sales presence. alot of these new heroes appeal to younger fans who buy digitally and with physical comic sales dropping every year thats a good thing.

hulk doesn't sell all that well (neither did thor) so they can afford to change them and try new things.

[Deleted]

i did, casting a white susan storm to me screamed "we want pr points for a black person but fear a loss in revenue if we have an interracial couple"

if they made sue black i wouldnt have minded

Again, I really don't think PR had anything to do with it. It was literally just Trank casting his buddy who he'd worked with before, regardless of race. But you're right, they then didn't have the cahoneys to go the whole hog and just make both Storms black.

[Zoaric]

'Been thinking about the ending credits statute-panorama scene of Age of Ultron.

Is it me, or are the Avengers being depicted as mythological gods the like Roman or Nordic deities?

Given that one of them is a deity and others can stand toe to toe with him, it' not
shocking. Plus, supers are our modern day myths.

[Deleted]

Given that one of them is a deity and others can stand toe to toe with him, it' not
shocking. Plus, supers are our modern day myths.

well,Thor is not a God in MCU.

[Kelimbror]

well,Thor is not a God in MCU.

...he's the same character in the MCU as he is in comics, being an Asgardian of high power and esteem of which we common folk would deem a 'god'. Much in the same way that Odin is a god and Heimdall is likely a god, but Sif is not a goddess.

[Deleted]

...he's the same character in the MCU as he is in comics, being an Asgardian of high power and esteem of which we common folk would deem a 'god'. Much in the same way that Odin is a god and Heimdall is likely a god, but Sif is not a goddess.

not exactly.Thor in Earth 616 is a God because he has a few perks that other beings don't have:he can hear a prayer across the Universe and he can sense other Gods dying.there are other perks which I forgot.Sif is a Goddess.

[Kelimbror]

not exactly.Thor in Earth 616 is a God because he has a few perks that other beings don't have:he can hear a prayer across the Universe and he can sense other Gods dying.there are other perks which I forgot.Sif is a Goddess.

I was talking about our perception and definition of what makes a god in comparison to other people with powers, not a literal labeling. It might be that anyone from Asgard we would perceive as gods, but the 3 I mentioned compared to Sif have otherworldly powers. We don't see a man in a robot suit or a rampaging green beast as gods, but flying people hurling lightning that can teleport into the heavens we will certainly see as gods.

[Deleted]

I was talking about our perception and definition of what makes a god in comparison to other people with powers, not a literal labeling. It might be that anyone from Asgard we would perceive as gods, but the 3 I mentioned compared to Sif have otherworldly powers. We don't see a man in a robot suit or a rampaging green beast as gods, but flying people hurling lightning that can teleport into the heavens we will certainly see as gods.

true.praying to someone who can hear your prayer is considered a God.that's how it is in Earth 616.it's sad that MCU is based on Earth 199999 where everyone is considered an alien and science instead of magic.out of all characters in MCU only Thor is not true to his character,based on his traits and status.

[Kelimbror]

everyone is considered an alien and science instead of magic.out of all characters in MCU only Thor is not true to his character,based on his traits and status.

That's not really how the MCU works, they are just doing a slow burn on it. You will see with Doctor Strange and Infinity War that they go full on magic and space juju, but they've already set up some of that with Vision and Scarlet Witch to some extent. And just because something is measurable with science doesn't mean it isn't magic. That's one of those trigger ideas that we have in our real world theory and philosophy.

So that's why I'm talking about perception, because that's how the MCU determines things as well. SHIELD may classify everything as aliens with alien powers, but some other person may see them as gods, then Doctor Strange will know that what he's doing is real magic and who knows how that will be perceived by people like SHIELD or HYDRA when the time comes?

The Inhumans thing and not being able to use 'mutant' has made things a little awkward, but magic and gods definitely exist in the MCU whether people call it that or not. I expect it will make more sense when we head into that phase.

[DemonHunter18]

That's not really how the MCU works, they are just doing a slow burn on it. You will see with Doctor Strange and Infinity War that they go full on magic and space juju, but they've already set up some of that with Vision and Scarlet Witch to some extent. And just because something is measurable with science doesn't mean it isn't magic. That's one of those trigger ideas that we have in our real world theory and philosophy.

So that's why I'm talking about perception, because that's how the MCU determines things as well. SHIELD may classify everything as aliens with alien powers, but some other person may see them as gods, then Doctor Strange will know that what he's doing is real magic and who knows how that will be perceived by people like SHIELD or HYDRA when the time comes?

The Inhumans thing and not being able to use 'mutant' has made things a little awkward, but magic and gods definitely exist in the MCU whether people call it that or not. I expect it will make more sense when we head into that phase.

yes and no.there was an interview a long time ago about Thor.the guy said something like "fans will be angry about Thor not being a God but that is where MCU is going".there is a reason why people are saying "they are not Gods"in movies or series.someone who is calling them Gods is more of a joke or hyperbole.if they make Thor a God as he is in Earth 616 then it would hard for them to introduce him into the big screen,like "how can a God take orders from a mere mortal"thing.

about magic.this is really awkward.they said something like "quanton/phantom thing"but not necessarily called magic.it will never make any sense.we who read the comics understand their direction but other people surely will not go search on wikipedia and try to find "what makes Thor a God"and"why magic is not called magic but explained through some quanthom/phantom thing".

this is science-fiction after all.

[Kelimbror]

about magic.this is really awkward.they said something like "quanton/phantom thing"but not necessarily called magic.

Doctor Strange will have magic front and center and in your face...I believe Feige said they will accomplish that by allowing many of his abilities to simply be unexplained. That even Stephen himself will want answers and not be able to get them. They will not be 'explaining it away' with science so to speak, but like I said...measurable by science doesn't mean it isn't magic. This echoes their sentiments that magic and science are really the same concept looked at through a different lens. They aren't mutually exclusive. I believe Thor had lines that expressed that sentiment.

But anyways, as hefty and polite(which is awesome) as this discussion is, it's likely a grand argument of semantics without us realizing it.

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An interesting thing to consider though, regarding the whole magic/science thing...especially since Thor explained they are the same thing....I'm very curious about how Ragnarok will go down. I mean that's the most magical god-fest you can possibly have. With Valkyrie and possibly Enchantress and the whole Valhalla/Hel thing it's going to be quite impossible to avoid outright mythological/magic based story.

I don't know whether I should be terrified that they are about to start messing up their universe or if they've changed their minds and will boldly strike out into the open magic/god territory with these upcoming films. Things could have changed once Feige became full in charge of this stuff. Given that Disney will not be continuing the Midichlorian nonsense, I can see them all being comfortable with magic just being a thing.

[DemonHunter18]

Doctor Strange will have magic front and center and in your face...I believe Feige said they will accomplish that by allowing many of his abilities to simply be unexplained. That even Stephen himself will want answers and not be able to get them. They will not be 'explaining it away' with science so to speak, but like I said...measurable by science doesn't mean it isn't magic. This echoes their sentiments that magic and science are really the same concept looked at through a different lens. They aren't mutually exclusive. I believe Thor had lines that expressed that sentiment.

But anyways, as hefty and polite(which is awesome) as this discussion is, it's likely a grand argument of semantics without us realizing it.

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An interesting thing to consider though, regarding the whole magic/science thing...especially since Thor explained they are the same thing....I'm very curious about how Ragnarok will go down. I mean that's the most magical god-fest you can possibly have. With Valkyrie and possibly Enchantress and the whole Valhalla/Hel thing it's going to be quite impossible to avoid outright mythological/magic based story.

I don't know whether I should be terrified that they are about to start messing up their universe or if they've changed their minds and will boldly strike out into the open magic/god territory with these upcoming films. Things could have changed once Feige became full in charge of this stuff. Given that Disney will not be continuing the Midichlorian nonsense, I can see them all being comfortable with magic just being a thing.

very true although that concept sucks.I like more Warcraft style.the funny thing is when I saw Asgardians using some machines to fight back and all that crap.Elves using bazookas was also funny.kinda weird that Loki doesn't have any magic.

haha yeah.I like this discussions.funny thing is that we are both right but Marvel is doing entirely different things on their own behalf.


I'm also afraid about this direction that they are going.Ragnarok should be "the end of all Gods"(ironically they are not).they will change most of the things.heck,even Hulk is in it.fantasy is not something that they will go on from now on.

[Immitis]

mcu is basically taking the arrow approach.

at first they didnt even want people with super powers in arrow, then they did flash and decided super powers were okay, now theyve gone full on magic with constantine and lazarus pits.

mcu is doing the same. at first everything was just aliens with science and nobody really had powers, it was just tech or serums or "cuz aliem lol" but then we got inhumans and now were about to get straight up magic in iron fist and doctor strange (well... iron fist is up in the air since they dont know how far they wanna go with the mysticism yet)

[Svifnymr]

I think they always over-estimated how "grounded in reality" superhero movie viewers needed the stories to be. Like the Superman movie with flight being, uh, jumping or something. For myself that is dumber than just saying "Superman can fly". Same with Antman, if they didn't mention the shrinking being via reducing space between atoms, we'd not have to worry about the implications of it. I doubt anyone would care if they'd never explained the shrinking...

[Kalcheus]

I think they always over-estimated how "grounded in reality" superhero movie viewers needed the stories to be. Like the Superman movie with flight being, uh, jumping or something. For myself that is dumber than just saying "Superman can fly". Same with Antman, if they didn't mention the shrinking being via reducing space between atoms, we'd not have to worry about the implications of it. I doubt anyone would care if they'd never explained the shrinking...

Here's the funny thing: Superman originally did just jump. It was only later writers who turned it into flying.

[Arrowstormen]

I think they always over-estimated how "grounded in reality" superhero movie viewers needed the stories to be. Like the Superman movie with flight being, uh, jumping or something. For myself that is dumber than just saying "Superman can fly". Same with Antman, if they didn't mention the shrinking being via reducing space between atoms, we'd not have to worry about the implications of it. I doubt anyone would care if they'd never explained the shrinking...

It does become flying after some practice. That said, I personally think explaining how things work is a good idea, as it creates an idea of the limits and nature of the abilities.

[Zoaric]

New image of Black Panther. He has his claws out.

[Tierbook]

I think they always over-estimated how "grounded in reality" superhero movie viewers needed the stories to be. Like the Superman movie with flight being, uh, jumping or something. For myself that is dumber than just saying "Superman can fly". Same with Antman, if they didn't mention the shrinking being via reducing space between atoms, we'd not have to worry about the implications of it. I doubt anyone would care if they'd never explained the shrinking...

For Marvel the only main character that can fly is Iron Man. Thor can fly in so far as he swings his hammer and just holds on and let's the momentum carry him around

[Zoaric]

For Marvel the only main character that can fly is Iron Man. Thor can fly in so far as he swings his hammer and just holds on and let's the momentum carry him around

Out of the MCU characters:
Vision, Iron Man, Scarlet Witch, Wasp, (EDIT: Falcon) and War Machine can fly.
Thor and Starlord can both sorta fly.