1. #1

    Should tier 16 have been split into 2 different raids?

    Recently coming back to wow just after christmas and doing SoO the first part feels like they should have been part of a different raid and then have the remaining 10 bosses the actual siege of org part.

    Anybody else feel like this?

  2. #2
    I don't see why it matters.

  3. #3
    If you're just talking about style, I think it worked out fairly well. The lore is fairly sound and it flows well from Pandaria to Orgrimmar.

  4. #4
    I think it flows fine lore/style-wise. From a player interest perspective it was really overwhelming to have 14 bosses all at once and then nothing new for ~12 months afterwards. Would have preferred two smaller instances with some spacing in between.
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  5. #5
    Pit Lord Sinndra's Avatar
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    i think it didnt need the setting of Vale. it was a nifty little concept, and i liked the bosses.. but i woulda rather had a more "seiging feeling" of SoO. i think in keeping with the spirit of number of bosses, we should have started at the gates of Org, skipping all the vale stuff, and finding ourselves fighting a few more bosses in the streets and on the cliffs of org. with three roads in and out, they could have given us three rotational bosses to start. first week front gates boss. second week back gates boss, third week side gate assault. then a boss or two in the streets of Org before heading down underground.

    still one raid, 14 bosses. just set more in org, less in Vale.
    Last edited by Sinndra; 2014-03-13 at 12:13 AM.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndra View Post
    i think it didnt need the setting of Vale. it was a nifty little concept, and i liked the bosses.. but i woulda rather had a more "seiging feeling" of SoO. i think keeping with the spirit of number of bosses, we should have started at the gates of Org, skipping all the vale stuff, and finding ourselves fighting a few more bosses in the streets and cliffs of org. with three roads in and out, they could have given us three rotational bosses to start. first week front gates boss. second week back gates boss, third week side gate assault. then a boss or two in the streets of Org before heading down underground.

    still one raid, 14 bosses. just set more in org, less in Vale.
    I'd have liked to see an alternate entry point to Org from Ashenvale for Alliance (using the Durotar-Azshara gate) with different bosses up until the paths join at the entrance to Ragefire Chasm (Horde would start at the docks and face Galakras, Iron Juggernaut and the Dark Shaman). Though I'm not sure how it'd work story-wise, and there'd probably be a lot of arguing from both sides over who got the easier/fairer/better bosses.

  7. #7
    Pit Lord Sinndra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeppio View Post
    I'd have liked to see an alternate entry point to Org from Ashenvale for Alliance (using the Durotar-Azshara gate) with different bosses up until the paths join at the entrance to Ragefire Chasm (Horde would start at the docks and face Galakras, Iron Juggernaut and the Dark Shaman). Though I'm not sure how it'd work story-wise, and there'd probably be a lot of arguing from both sides over who got the easier/fairer/better bosses.
    that sounds like a fun alternative as well. too bad Blizzard missed a great opportunity with this raid. it had so much more potential. it was a great raid, i had fun. i enjoyed the lore and the bosses, but i was hoping for more fighting in Org less in Vale/underground.
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I do realize that this is an internet forum full of morons, however in real life, no one questions me, people look to me for the answer, look up to me, trust me. To have dipshits on a video game forum question me, is insulting.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndra View Post
    that sounds like a fun alternative as well. too bad Blizzard missed a great opportunity with this raid. it had so much more potential. it was a great raid, i had fun. i enjoyed the lore and the bosses, but i was hoping for more fighting in Org less in Vale/underground.
    Plus I think my idea could have shown a bit more of the "Goblins are going to pull out of Ashenvale if we let them keep their holdings in Azshara" part of the whole peace treaty stuff. Maybe the Bilgewater Cartel giving the Night Elves some help pushing into Orgrimmar from the back (while Vol'Jin's rebellion assaults the front gate and Horde troops arrive by the docks) or something. I'd have loved to see a larger presence of Alliance and Horde leaders and more Alliance-Horde team-ups during the raid. It was still a very good raid though.

  9. #9
    Never thought of it but really nice idea!

    I always liked the shory 1-2 Boss Instances like Onyxia's Lair or Throne of the Four Winds.

    Why not make one Raid Instance "Vale of Eternal Sorrows" and one Raid "Siege of Orgrimmar" (10 Bosses)? It often feels like SoO is a little bit too long to clear on one evening. Especially if you do it with alts / randoms and want to try some new Heroic Bosses. And if you end the raid at Blackfuse for example it is hard to find a new Group.

    So maybe a good idea for future raids... i like big raids, but splitting them into one Big and one Small Raid would feel a little bit better. So when you have 1-2 hours you go for the small raid, when you have 3-4 hours you do the big raid... if you have even more time you can do both.

    Also am i the only one who misses those classic 1 Boss Instances?

  10. #10
    Keep in mind, people have complained endlessly about how Ulduar was the greatest thing since sliced peasants and that ICC was just amazing. Ulduar had 13(14) bosses and ICC had 12.

    The only thing that screwed up Siege was the lack of wings and thankfully they've straight-up proven they're giving us more choices than "Blackfuse or Spoils?" in the next raid. (Blackrock Foundry has three wings that are available right off the bat and a tiny "wing" with the final boss that, eventually, you'll be able to go to without clearing the entire raid.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndra View Post
    i think it didnt need the setting of Vale. it was a nifty little concept, and i liked the bosses.. but i woulda rather had a more "seiging feeling" of SoO. i think in keeping with the spirit of number of bosses, we should have started at the gates of Org, skipping all the vale stuff, and finding ourselves fighting a few more bosses in the streets and on the cliffs of org.
    They really could have just made the first four bosses of Siege be a dungeon. Immersius is like Wise Mari, the Protectors aren't a difficult concept to just have them be one at a time, Norushen is easily scaled down and we fought two of the Sha in dungeons already.
    Last edited by TheWindWalker; 2014-03-14 at 06:58 AM.
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  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Weightlifter's Avatar
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    I always thought that it would have made more sense to make the 1st wing of SoO into its own raid. The transition from Vale to Durotar is also very anticlimatic. A portal just appears in the corner without anyone saying a word

  12. #12
    I definitely would have preferred a two-raid split with 6-8 bosses per raid. It would have allowed my time-limited raid to focus on the more important parts of progression. Too many farm bosses makes it hard to find progression time.

    I guess 12-14 boss raids is the popular model, but 14 linear bosses is just so damn time consuming.

  13. #13
    Yep I'd agree with you OP.
    If I was king of WoW I'd have made the first 4 bosses a halion-style filler patch. It would A) reduce the time required to clear it B) flow better C) help deal with the massive "no content" period we're looking it.

  14. #14
    Yes, what everyone else said.

    I also think there should have been more orc bosses at the end leading up to Garrosh. It feels weird to kill a Goblin and some Klaxxi immediately before the Big Bad Orc.

  15. #15
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    A 4 boss raid and a 10 boss raid would have worked well imo. Cale of eternal sorrows for one, and SoO for the second. Probably would have made it a bit easier on people. If say they got stuck on Protectors, they could have went and tried Galakras or vice versa.

    Alternatively they could have Saved The vale one for February or March, and released it with maybe a scenario, and few lore quests in the vale. Would have felt better imo.
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  16. #16
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    Raid tiers should always consist of more than 1 dungeon.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Denkou View Post
    Yes, what everyone else said.

    I also think there should have been more orc bosses at the end leading up to Garrosh. It feels weird to kill a Goblin and some Klaxxi immediately before the Big Bad Orc.
    No thank you. Too many Orc bosses as it is.

  18. #18
    The tier was too long imo. Chewing through so many bosses to reach Garrosh is tough.

    I'd rather the vale was separate smaller raid and org had its own raid starting at Galakras.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Weightlifter View Post
    I always thought that it would have made more sense to make the 1st wing of SoO into its own raid. The transition from Vale to Durotar is also very anticlimatic. A portal just appears in the corner without anyone saying a word
    There's a whole in-game dialogue with Jaina and Lor'themar literally right after you kill the Sha.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mini View Post
    I think it flows fine lore/style-wise. From a player interest perspective it was really overwhelming to have 14 bosses all at once and then nothing new for ~12 months afterwards. Would have preferred two smaller instances with some spacing in between.
    I agree with this. 14 bosses is too much at once anyway I would say. It also causes issues with people having near enough no upgrades left once they get to the last few bosses, which is really hurtful. Gear has always been the nerf over time for the hardest bosses and now they are pretty much just as difficult for the people who get there only now (often due to lack of skill/coordination) as they were for people who killed them during the second month.
    Obviously this changed slightly due to the nerf, but that feels like a band-aid fix.

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