Rank 1's are overrated, almost all of them are cheesed in some way and they are not needed for good PR ranks.
Try to keep it sober, Hunterlove. =)
You are right ! however i dont think that using pet debuff make a player smarter !
I keep it sober (yeah i really do !) but the way he replies to my post, full of oneself is quite disgusting ^^
Let's calm down, GG for your ranking Shoults. Hunters community is proud of you. Go on like that !
The only trick you can do with Stampede is get ExtraCD addon or some weakaura that will tell you when your cd reduction trinket is coming off from CD (usually the third time it procs into fight) and then pop Stampede immediately.
the extra attacks of megabloks stampede are because he saves berserking (20% meleehaste) for stampede, isn't it?
Have to admit that im waiting for megabloks reply also. Closest ranks in malkorok to megabloks rank without using glyph of stampede are from some chinese/korean/japanese/dshfösdjfh logs and mine. My and mr yakuchimos stampede pets e(DPS) are around 10k while megabloks pets are doing 20k. I can't imagine only berserking doing that much difference.
Your use of the word "fairly" suggests to me that you are just bummed he cleverer than you and better at playing the parse game.
No I didn't. You are trying to make this a debate about semantics that is really pointless because there is no debate. The fact is, the game engine and coding is what sets the rules. If you hack the game engine or use external programs that replace the human directing the interface with the game engine (bots), that is exploiting. A human being using what the developers make possible in the world they give us to play in is clever use of game mechanics. The fact the developers didn't necessarily intend a particular action is something you would like to be the line between exploit and use of game mechanics, but that is patently ridiculous. How in the hell are players supposed to reliably discern the intent of the developers at any particular moment? The rules are the rules in the game world period.
Last edited by Namor of Muradin; 2014-03-14 at 04:07 PM.
No more discussion is needed though, would just be cool with Megabloks' response.
It's by -definition- an exploit. Not that it's a big deal since pretty few people care about parses anyway but it doesn't make it any less of an exploit.
I don't personally care, it just makes a lot of Megabloks' PR ranks seem kinda invalid.
Holding 2 adds on Animus with you and your pet - clever use of game mechanics.
Getting the sunken temple buff on your pet, (which was hotfixed ASAP, required you to go out of your way to an old instance etc) - exploit.
Bopping away dangerous debuffs because they're based on physical damage (paragons, protcectors, lots in ToT) - clever use of game mechanics.
Getting the silithid-pet that had extra attack speed due to keeping a buff when you tamed it - exploit.
Hunters doing every belt by disengaing up there - clever use of game mechanics.
Hunters getting a plagued hound pet that retained an AOE-damage that scaled with your AP - exploit.
And just to hammer it in, this is the pattern:
All the exploits needs you to go out of your way to do some kind of batshit crazy thing with your pet(s) in order to retain buffs that are supposed to fall off, THEN bring them into the raids - and even using them does not cause this effect to fall off, regardless of the fact that it should due to a limited duration (the Siamat buff lasts 30 seconds, meaning considering dismiss time etc, it'd be good for about ONE stampede. Megabloks clearly didn't go and hunt 4 new debuffs every boss, so...)
All the "clever use of game mechanics" takes advantage of abilities that the players already HAVE, and it requires no outside setup to do them. They're always available.
If you want to believe the people who abused the bug are just "more clever than others" and didn't exploit to their hearts content, you go ahead and do that. I highly doubt that would be the general consensus. It's something that should leave them with a bad taste in their mouths if they've done it, as it's sinking to a whole new level, basicly saying "I can't compete unless I exploit the game". They didn't need the dps for progress. They have been doing it purely for ranks that no one else stands a chance at, because they exploited a bug.
After some research it seems that shoults and mega didnt have to hunt 4 new debuff every boss. The debuff reappear At full duration during each Stamp. You can disconnect afk 1 week and it Will Still be there When you use your stamp again.
Btw great way of thinking
1) What in the fak is the "general consensus". Good luck defining THAT.
2) The rules of the game world are the realm of the developer, not the player.
While I agree that things that require 'batshit crazy' jumping through hoops in old instances are very likely "unintended", the fact of the matter is until they are changed, those are the rules of the virtual world. The fact that Blizzard changes these when they start to be used by players in ways that were unintended suggests Blizzard does care deeply about those rules, but I simply do not agree that paints anyone who follows the poorly managed rules to their advantage as a cheat.
This idealistic view that there is some sort of 'gentlemans agreement' about fairplay is naive and unrealistic.
I've taken a look at Megablocks logs and its hard to tell what funky tricks he is pulling. If you compare his log to Azerothians, Az has the most retarded trinket procs you will never see, yet Megablocks shits all over him with pet white damage. So there is something very fishy there.
I know there is a very simple way to perma get the Brutal Kinship buff on your pet as SV. Its possible there is something shifty going on.
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I think exploits on farm bosses do no harm to anyone. If you're that sad about getting rank 57 instead of 51 because 6 people had done AoE boosts to their dps, well... perhaps you're focusing on the wrong thing to have fun with. Focus on your own dps instead of comparing it to other people doing different tactics than you. Compare dps done to boss instead and check ranks of that. When I did my very high Dark Shamans rank in the beginning of SoO, I ranked #5, but my Combustions were way bigger than the 4 people above me, so I took pride in that instead of being 5th on damage. Fun stuff like that you know.
Dps exploits, legal or not, are really fun, I suggest you try them as long as you're not in a world ranking guild exploiting it for progress. The most fun is Sha of Pride zerg in 10man. 1 tank, 1 healer, everyone stacks and gets the 50% buff. Hard "enrage" is 238 or 188 seconds, can't remember which.
Last edited by Megamisama; 2014-03-14 at 05:46 PM.
EU first PG wave 30, come at me bros.
It's not "very likely" unintended - IT IS UNINTENDED. Predecent shows us this. I need to use both hands to count the amount of times you've been able to get a super-charged pet due to some kind of bug, off the top of my head (that's not even mentioning the ones I forgot or don't remember). IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN UNINTENDED AND ALWAYS BEEN FIXED. Predecent *SHOWS* that it's an exploit.
As for a general consensus - ask the hunter community. Is it "clever use of game mechanics", or an "exploit". I'm fairly sure I'll get more people saying exploit than game mechanics.
As for "the rules of the game world are the realm of the developer, not the player" - that's just a fucking weak excuse for taking advantage of glitches in the game that the programmer can't possibly catch. You clearly have absolutely no idea how it is to program basicly anything - there will be bugs and loopholes, and it WILL end up in the shipped game. Abusing those bugs and loopholes to gain an unfair advantage that no one else has, is exploiting. If you believe anything else, that's up to you, but I'd say you're wrong. The fact that this was kept quiet
Do you know how stupid you sound when your argument basicly is -
"Oooh but this random instance from five tiers and an expansion ago has a debuff that sticks to my pet even if I dismiss it. It has a short duration, but it refreshes everytime I re-summon it. Clearly, this buff is intended for me to get so I can do higher dps. Nothing wrong with this. That's just how you get your optimal damage for every other class, too - by hunting for buffs in old instances, right? right?"
With that said, it's quite clear that for however long the buff lasted, Blizzard wasn't aware of it - heck, the general hunter community wasn't. How do you propose that blizzard finds and fixes bugs when the people who discovers them keeps them secret for personal gain? So you can add "And I better keep this quiet so no one else also gains this advantage" to the list.
As for me being "naive" and "unrealistic" that there's any kind of fairplay - that might be so, but that doesn't mean I can't condemn people for abusing exploits. It is, after all, just MY opinion. I'd love a "fair" competition, to the extents that RPPM allows it, but it seems others don't. It's funny how people defend things that are clearly exploitative behaviour in some cases, and in others go berserk when it happens (STARS TRANSFERRED TO UNLOCK HEROICS A WEEK EARLY OMG).
As for this whole nazgrim/shaman/galakras discussion going on too - that's an excellent example of clever use of game mechanics to get high ranks (keeping specific mobs alive). Is it overly fair to the people who doesn't get to do it? Not really. But here's the thing - everyone knows how it's done (or can look it up easily), it is possible to DO for everyone, and it doesn't require outside interferance. It's clever usage of game mechanics. I managed rank ~30 on nazgrim with absolutely zero setup (the entire raid AOE'ing faithfulls etc), so it's not THAT many guilds who abuses the shamans (I'd assume maybe a handfull). Even then, if we wanted to be competitive, we could do it if we wanted. I can't go and make my stampede do twice as much dmg to be competitive if I wanted, can I?
Only bosses that really "require" cheesing for top 10 ranks are Nazgrim (got #10 without it tho but that's like #16 now), Immerseus, Galakras and Shamans. Which is more than I'd like (PLS DRACO PLS CHEESE THEM) but the cheesing shit is not a huge deal. As for "not counting those ranks", well then I guess I'm the #1 BM hunter with no weird tacs on any bosses (split Shamans, all-AoE Nazgrim, all-AoE Immerseus, Thok.. etc), but there are still some guys who exploited that I know for a fact I could probably beat if everything was fair. QQmore etc, I don't cry myself to sleep over it. The top 1st percentile is mostly seperated by cheesing/insane RNG I think.
Sure, there's some "prestige" to rank 1 on a boss but you can safely assume that something fishy went into all rank 1's these days.. It's not something I care much/whine about, I'm not semi-begging Draco to let some solo-AoE stuff happen on Immerseus for rank #1, but it'd be a big difference if we just benched our Ele shamans/other top AoE'ers, that'd prolly be a top 10 for me and put me in top if you don't count master-cheesers (Method's Pottm, Megabloks..). Top 10 rank on -all- bosses is within reach with minimal cheesing (maybe not Galakras as that is very group-dependent).
ABSOLUTE top ranks on single bosses seems useless to me, I dunno 'bout everyone else. You can't get #1 on Juggernaut because Megabloks/some others used some retarded bug, okay, just take pride in whatever good rank you get knowing that was mostly down to luck + your amazing hunter-skills.
Unless those few ranks up top on that one boss is what's keeping you from a ProRaiders rank (sorry I spew that website so much but I worship it) I don't see why it's a big deal. I bet there's room for improvement on other bosses. Bosses that don't require amazing RNG/tacs (they all require RPPM procs I guess but Spoils does so to a much lesser extent. With a reckless Eddy-tank and double-Burning Anger you're set for something good).