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  1. #261
    My two pence, I hate the idea of no flying and it really REALLY puts me off buying WoD. Sure, I like other games that do not have flying, such as Rift, but I believe that is because the layout of zones/levels and levelling/endgame experience in the open world is much better. There are things to do inbetween each "daily hub" on Rift which gives it a reason to do these but WoW has not done anything like this in a long time. Is it because of flying mounts? I don't believe so. I believe it to be that the designers are not talented enough or/and limited resources to prevent them from making an engaging open world. The only way you are going to have a populated world again is to give people a reason to populate it, not limit their travel.

    My friends will be buying WoD, I will watch them play and if the layout/quest design of zones does not support no flying to the way I like it, I will not be buying it. Why? Because I do not want to spend money on something I do not like, not because "will un-sub so they will revert a change so they can get my sub back cause I am a special snow flake". And also not buying because they said they will use the timeless isle concept again, fucking hate that zone with a burning passion, a strong example of poor zone design to me. Having to climb a mountain/hill shouldn't be a "path" it should be an opportunity to explore.

    EDIT: I just used Rift as a reference, other games do it well as well.

  2. #262
    i think that if i were a man, i would go and beat the shit out of afrasiabi myself. the jail time would be worth knocking his teeth out of his smug mouth. you can tell he's the brains behind this farce of an expansion, every shitty design choice is this bastard's fault. this fuckhole is almost the stuart snyder of mmos.

  3. #263
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylreick View Post
    Yes, of course there is an immediate reaction. But, as it appears in many of the threads on the subject, these immediate reactions are baseless and have absolutely zero context on the content that will be provided or the changes they have made for the expansion. Unless we have a detailed blog post, videos of max level content or a beta test being utilized, we won't know how it is going to play out.

    Yet, we already have people threatening to unsub, whining about the loss of flight and all of this based on what is experienced in game NOW, not what will be in WoD. Which is why, the complaining should have a strong and well written reason for the dislike, or else wait for the beta to see how it plays out.
    The reactions are based on the reasons why the changes are being made, so they aren't baseless. They've already stated that it's based on the premise that ground mounts are more engaging. Some people think that's a flawed premise.

  4. #264
    The Patient kenshinag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i think that if i were a man, i would go and beat the shit out of afrasiabi myself. the jail time would be worth knocking his teeth out of his smug mouth. you can tell he's the brains behind this farce of an expansion, every shitty design choice is this bastard's fault. this fuckhole is almost the stuart snyder of mmos.
    Sheesh. Relax and go drink a glass of water or something. Just so mad.
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  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylreick View Post
    My "narrow analogy" was based off the quoted "narrow view" of describing it as if it were a car. If they feel like playing WoW is a job, and that they'd rather skip everything and just get it over with, then maybe they ought to take a break, or find some other game to play. As they are clearly not having fun with it anymore.

    Do you not play any single player games, because they "force" you to run through the story as dictated by their maker? Like in zelda, they allow you to ride eponia through that main world map in OoT, but they don't allow you to use it in the areas that actually matter. Would you be the type to get pissed off by that sentiment and not buy the game?

    I still don't see the reason people would get their pants in a bunch enough to unsubscribe purely because they try to make ground travel more viable and restrict flight. It seems like something else is behind it, and the flight restriction is an excuse.

    Again, taking flight away isn't a "logical" thing to do. It is a design "out". If they remove flight entirely, the game would be "devolving" rather than evolving.

    Yes, I play other games. Those games do not include the growth of a character over 9+ years. Gaining an ability, then having it taken away, is not a logical design.

    I am not "threatening" to leave the game, I am saying that I will leave the game if it is no longer the game that I am interested in. I may have already reached that point.

  6. #266
    If there is no flying in Draenor then they should be able to release it sooner since everything can be flat. The reason they don't let us fly in Silvermoon is because everything is flat and it would take too much time to change the textures, right? So seems to me it's logical that WOD can be released sooner since the terrain can be flat.

  7. #267
    The Patient Ravenesss's Avatar
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    Don't think it is going to be for the whole xpac just till the first patch which still sucks but better than the whole xpac so relax

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by kenshinag View Post
    Sheesh. Relax and go drink a glass of water or something. Just so mad.
    i am indeed quite mad. mad enough to threaten physical violence on this slimeball that's ruining the game i've had years of fun in. i don't normally get mad, but when i do, i'm ready to demolish ass.

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laylriana View Post
    If there is no flying in Draenor then they should be able to release it sooner since everything can be flat. The reason they don't let us fly in Silvermoon is because everything is flat and it would take too much time to change the textures, right? So seems to me it's logical that WOD can be released sooner since the terrain can be flat.
    Read it again. No flying at RELEASE. Its been said flying will be allowed after a few months. So yes they still have to make the entire place flying-proof and make sure we can't fly out of bounds.

  10. #270
    The Patient kenshinag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i am indeed quite mad. mad enough to threaten physical violence on this slimeball that's ruining the game i've had years of fun in. i don't normally get mad, but when i do, i'm ready to demolish ass.
    I get that, but it's okay. Calm down. It's not worth getting upset over. Did you know that stress actually destroys brain cell tissue? That means every time you get flipping mad, you slowly but surely are getting dumber. Grow with the game, not against it. If you love the game then using a ground mount isn't going to stop you from doing the things you love, which I'm assuming is PVP, raiding, dungeons, questing, etc.

    I just want to point out that the guy isn't doing this because he's got a personal vendetta to fulfill against you. He's just making decisions that he feels may be best for the game at this point in time. There are a lot of people that are asking for what he's proposing. The same amount of people that, like you, are of the opinion that it's not a good idea. Either way, it's something him and Blizzard are going to try. If they allowed flying from the start like how you want, pro-ground mount people would be just as upset as you.

    It's not worth the stress, it's all I'm saying. Carry on.
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  11. #271
    Well, so, Heroes of the Storm is just League of Legends.. That's a bummer. I wanted a Smash Bros. type game..
    No flying even at max level? That's so sad... Unless of course roads are actually 99% safe to travel on, and/or taxi's are really smart and don't fly me all over the place before I reach my destination. Anyway that's my 2 cents.

  12. #272
    Warchief Sylreick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incitatus View Post
    Again, taking flight away isn't a "logical" thing to do. It is a design "out". If they remove flight entirely, the game would be "devolving" rather than evolving.

    Yes, I play other games. Those games do not include the growth of a character over 9+ years. Gaining an ability, then having it taken away, is not a logical design.

    I am not "threatening" to leave the game, I am saying that I will leave the game if it is no longer the game that I am interested in. I may have already reached that point.
    Sure it's logical, if there isn't a way to make flying more interesting or provide something that isn't annoying to deal with that would knock you off/slow you down or something else to equalize the advantages, then you disable it. It isn't a 'design "out"', whatever that is. It's a design intent, as in they intend to design content without requiring flying (at first).

    The whole gaining then losing an ability argument is pretty flawed if you think about it. How often have they removed/changed/merged abilities in each expansion? Old school talents? Weapon skill ups? It's quite an extensive list. Flying is just another one of those that are being toned down.

    Your last point is fine, if it wasn't a game I was interested in anymore I would leave also. I'm just trying to point out that people trying to make such a huge thing out of the loss of flight is a bit crazy. It's a minor feature of convenience and isn't necessary to experience the game (sure it might be great, and very useful, but this is really what it comes down to).
    "Believing something is not an accomplishment. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because “strength of belief” is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. Listen to any “die-hard” conservative or liberal talk about their deepest beliefs and you are listening to somebody who will never hear what you say on any matter that matters to them — unless you believe the same. Wherever there is a belief, there is a closed door."

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylreick View Post
    Sure it's logical, if there isn't a way to make flying more interesting or provide something that isn't annoying to deal with that would knock you off/slow you down or something else to equalize the advantages, then you disable it. It isn't a 'design "out"', whatever that is. It's a design intent, as in they intend to design content without requiring flying (at first).

    The whole gaining then losing an ability argument is pretty flawed if you think about it. How often have they removed/changed/merged abilities in each expansion? Old school talents? Weapon skill ups? It's quite an extensive list. Flying is just another one of those that are being toned down.

    Your last point is fine, if it wasn't a game I was interested in anymore I would leave also. I'm just trying to point out that people trying to make such a huge thing out of the loss of flight is a bit crazy. It's a minor feature of convenience and isn't necessary to experience the game (sure it might be great, and very useful, but this is really what it comes down to).
    It isn't a major thing to YOU, but it IS a major thing to others. Those people will leave, people with your beliefs will enjoy it.

  14. #274
    Warchief Sylreick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freakyduck View Post
    You're right, but then the baseless and blind support for the restriction/potential removal of flight coming in WoD should stop as well to see how it plays out. Yet we won't see that happen either. This is part of what Blizzard wants though. They want people to react with the information given otherwise they wouldn't put it out there yet. It has been stated since Blizzcon that flying would be restricted, to add this other potential that it might not be part of WoD at all was just them seeking the reaction of the players. To put this simply: The reactions to what Blizzard posted are "working as intended".

    I'm not sure what you expect from people that are voicing their opinions on this subject. A lengthy essay? Bullet points? Power Point Presentation? A simple "I disagree with Blizzard on this" doesn't count as a valid reason to you? Can say the same for every "argument" that supports not having flying in WoD, restricted or removed completely. Immersion will still happen, immature players will still play and torment you, world pvp will still be as dead as it is today.
    The reason they put out the info is to prepare people, get them used to the idea. The reactions will come when alpha/beta is out and people are trying it. Initial reactions are fine, but they're not usually constructive without context and thus not actionable when working on the content.

    The simple I disagree is fine, but not useful in any way. Why would you disagree? What about flying would you miss most? Why is it a necessary part of endgame? If you find it necessary for such and such reasons, then what if they implemented something to work similarly without cutting out chunks of content they create? Something more substantial than the desire for convenience and views of the flier from above (which isn't even definite that we won't be able to do later in the expansion).
    "Believing something is not an accomplishment. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because “strength of belief” is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. Listen to any “die-hard” conservative or liberal talk about their deepest beliefs and you are listening to somebody who will never hear what you say on any matter that matters to them — unless you believe the same. Wherever there is a belief, there is a closed door."

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylreick View Post
    The reason they put out the info is to prepare people, get them used to the idea. The reactions will come when alpha/beta is out and people are trying it. Initial reactions are fine, but they're not usually constructive without context and thus not actionable when working on the content.

    The simple I disagree is fine, but not useful in any way. Why would you disagree? What about flying would you miss most? Why is it a necessary part of endgame? If you find it necessary for such and such reasons, then what if they implemented something to work similarly without cutting out chunks of content they create? Something more substantial than the desire for convenience and views of the flier from above (which isn't even definite that we won't be able to do later in the expansion).
    You sure are selling ground travel, talking down the love of flight. Are you one of the designers that feel it's a wonderful idea?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylreick View Post
    The reason they put out the info is to prepare people, get them used to the idea. The reactions will come when alpha/beta is out and people are trying it. Initial reactions are fine, but they're not usually constructive without context and thus not actionable when working on the content.

    The simple I disagree is fine, but not useful in any way. Why would you disagree? What about flying would you miss most? Why is it a necessary part of endgame? If you find it necessary for such and such reasons, then what if they implemented something to work similarly without cutting out chunks of content they create? Something more substantial than the desire for convenience and views of the flier from above (which isn't even definite that we won't be able to do later in the expansion).
    I have stated that I wanted flight. You have stated that I am wrong for wanting to fly.

  16. #276
    Warchief Sylreick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incitatus View Post
    You sure are selling ground travel, talking down the love of flight. Are you one of the designers that feel it's a wonderful idea?

    - - - Updated - - -



    I have stated that I wanted flight. You have stated that I am wrong for wanting to fly.
    I'm not trying to talk people out of their love of flying. I'm just saying that it's convenience hurts general gameplay and pacing of fresh content. There hasn't been a very strong argument about why flying is necessary for endgame.

    I never said you were wrong for wanting to fly. I am trying to provoke a strong argument as to it's necessity. If you like it, definitely let them know this. Personally, I would be saddened if they don't allow flying after the patches come out. I like the convenience and after content is past its prime, flying ought to be implemented. During current content, it's a different story. It shortens the world, rushes through all questing/dailies that have not been done, and then you're left with gathering/queue-based systems until they release a patch.
    "Believing something is not an accomplishment. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because “strength of belief” is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. Listen to any “die-hard” conservative or liberal talk about their deepest beliefs and you are listening to somebody who will never hear what you say on any matter that matters to them — unless you believe the same. Wherever there is a belief, there is a closed door."

  17. #277
    The only people who support the no flying mounts in WoD content only do so because they thrive on the annoyance of others, by listening to this highly toxic group of players blizzard is giving off a bad signal.
    If you enjoy diminishing other peoples gameplay and like developers to force choicereduction onto players please go play LoL, its full of the same kind of players like you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylreick View Post
    I'm not trying to talk people out of their love of flying. I'm just saying that it's convenience hurts general gameplay and pacing of fresh content. There hasn't been a very strong argument about why flying is necessary for endgame.

    I never said you were wrong for wanting to fly. I am trying to provoke a strong argument as to it's necessity. If you like it, definitely let them know this. Personally, I would be saddened if they don't allow flying after the patches come out. I like the convenience and after content is past its prime, flying ought to be implemented. During current content, it's a different story. It shortens the world, rushes through all questing/dailies that have not been done, and then you're left with gathering/queue-based systems until they release a patch.
    That argument is easily turned around: there has been no strong argument why flying should NOT be possible at max level in draenor.

  18. #278
    It doesn't matter if there's a argument or not about whether flying should or shouldn't be in game. Its their design, they want to get rid of it so be it. It will not effect me in any way. OHHHH, it takes me longer to get somewhere. OHHHHH, I might have to kill things I shouldn't have to kill. All I'm reading is whine whine whine, I want want want. Gimme gimme gimme. My god, flying time using FP's is already way quicker than it used to be and there's a ton of FP's out there so you don't have to fly from one end of the zone to another. You are supposed to be immersed in a world, going around helping people and killing threats, not flying around above everything then every once in a while drop down and kill the one thing you need. Yes, flying is great. It is fun and awesome. I just don't care if I have it or not. Why don't I care? Plain and simple, from 1 to 60 I have to level on the ground. First on foot, then slow mount, then faster mount. Guess what, I have just as much fun leveling and exploring that way as I do being able to fly around, if anything flying takes any challenge or excitement out of it making it more of a just hop around from quest to quest or kill to kill.

  19. #279
    My biggest gripe is not being able to ride Fly Only mounts. If they can correct this i would have less complaint of riding till 6.1.
    I have earned quite a few of these mounts and I will be pretty unhappy if i am not able to show them off and enjoy them wherever i go

    I do not feel more immersed in the game, it only annoys me to have to ride around on the ground riding through NPC's to get from point A to point B. This is supposed to create danger but if im going to a raid, or what have you - i dont want to participate in killing non required kills. Timeless isle is a great example of this. You get in an Ordos group...you ride up (since have group will travel doesnt exist anymore and locks arent always there) you get fire charged 3 times to death. This NPC isnt doing anything but causing grief.
    I am still supportive of the tome after first max lvl character. I do NOT care about the world, or quests after the first, maybe even the second play through. Flying isnt stopping me from not being immersed or enjoying it, already seeing the game is. I just do whatever i can to bypass all non required npcs even in MoP with no flying. Not being able to fly only causes irritation of getting dismounted/dazed and feeling slow

    This brings me to Flight Paths..While great they are our "flight" fix....you are less immersed in the game than flying itself. You see a rare spawn while you are on a flight path? too bad you cant hop off like in alpha to tag it. Flight paths have never been perfect, they never will. Giving players control of their route is a way better option. I do not feel like a great hero when I am able to slay the mightiest world dragons and villians but am buckled to the ground and forced to ride through stuff that is not part of my objective just to reach what is.

    Lastly, unless we are aiming for world PvP, I'm pretty sure the thought pattern was already that world pvp is dead and that there will be a pvp zone strictly for this. Keep no flight there as would be expected. another option would be to disable flying on pvp server if that is really what is being sought after....which i doubt it

  20. #280
    If flight paths work like the albatrosses in timeless isle, you will be able to "hop off" if you see something interesting, catch a ride back to the quest hub etc.

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