Questioning Blizzards strategy

[powcsonka]

Groups. From day one Blizzard has tried to throw us together into as large of groups as they could. Guilds. 40 man raids. Large group quests. Faction raids. Alterac Valley. And why not? It is an MMO after all. Most of it works well and does not present a problem. But does it work as well as it used to? All you seem to see anymore is rudeness and hostility. LFR is practically a nightmare, and that might be putting it kindly. Even LFD has made 5 manning almost unbearable. I can't help thinking that when i que for an LFR or even an LFD that I'm just jumping on a treadmill and it's more an excercise routine than the fun time it's supposed to be. Other than the yelling, complaining, rudeness, and hostility you see in these environments, there is hardly any comradery or cooperation these raids and dungeons were originally supposed to foster. And where is the fun? I cringe to do these activities, but feel forced into doing them, for progressions sake.

Even guild raiding is not what it used to be. It seems the hostility has carried over here as well, though admittedly not near the same level. What's with the "dude you don't have the latest addon, we're going to have to replace you" or "dude your dps sucks, it should be more like mine" or "dude all I do is die because you suck at healing". Unless you are a realm first type of raiding guild why all of the rudeness? As long as the underperforming member is a likeable guy and is genuinely making an effort, and you are beating bosses, albeit somewhat painfully, why not try some encouragement? For example, maybe suggest changing roles, or maybe his computer is just too slow, or maybe he just doesn't have the natural inclination for this kind of game. You like him and you are still making progress. Is that not good enough? Are we not here for fun first and foremost? Is it ok to throw, supposedly a friend, under the bus?

Hostility. Rudeness. Every day it is becoming more and more the norm, instead of the exception it used to be. Is it the game? Is it this generation of people? Am I seeing things that are not there? Regardless, the age old adage of "if you throw a bunch of people together there are going to be problems" is true. Logistics, pure and simple.

To that end, why force us to be in large groups? Yes I know I am not literally forced to play in large groups, but for progressions sake I feel I must. Why not encourage smaller, more intimate grouping composed of people we really like and choose, not in replacement of large groups, but an option to them? Make the content competitive in difficulty and in rewards. Would you partake in this kind of activity if it were offered?

[NuLogic]

People have always been rude that's nothing new. Just ask guildies or people on your friend list before using lfd/lfr.

[Failmuffins]

Join a new guild if the people in your current one are asshats. I've been in a handful of guilds over the past few years, and can only label one that was immature and rude. I left them after our first raid night.

As for the rest, there's not much you can do about it other than hope to bypast most of the LFR/D experience with help from your guild. The attitude is a byproduct of having anonymity, knowing that the chances of meeting the same people again is slim, and that the potential of consequences for your actions is minimal. There was less of it back in the day due to raids + dungeons promoting a server community where known jerks would get shunned from groups.

As for why Blizzard promotes that kind of content, it's a matter of convenience versus community.

[Darsithis]

Even LFD has made 5 manning almost unbearable.

I don't disagree with your points about how bad LFR is. But this, I do. I run heroics all the time and they're almost always fast, efficient, quiet runs that are far from unbearable.

[Milkyz]

It's a problem with humanity, not Blizzard. Nor games, or anything for that matter.

As Disgruntled Penguin pointed out, it was a bit better before Name/Faction/Realm Changes and Group Finder, but jerks always existed.

Nothing much to say though, it's all about trying to find a better guild. The group I'm in right now is the most "hardcore" I've ever played with, but at the same time, it's also the friendliest raiding environment as well (though in our case, you have to play well to stay in the main roster even if you are a friend). There are still good and friendly guilds in all levels of play. As long as everyone in the group is aiming for the same objectives and has respect between it's members, things will work out. Keep trying!

[Deleted]

5 mans are laughable now, so unless you're exceptionally unlucky, it should just be a source of extra gold and justice points for transmog or trade goods.

As for carrying over to raiding, you're always going to find jackasses on any server in any environment, but that being said you'll have a lot more luck finding a nice raiding guild than a nice LFR run.

[alexkeren]

Groups. From day one Blizzard has tried to throw us together into as large of groups as they could. Guilds. 40 man raids.

You're quite right, Blizzard is the only one that does that.

No other developer, no other genre of game, does that.

[powcsonka]

I don't disagree with your points about how bad LFR is. But this, I do. I run heroics all the time and they're almost always fast, efficient, quiet runs that are far from unbearable.

And this is why they are unbearable to me. Yep they are quiet, to the point of if you talk, you almost feel frowned upon. And the speed run through the whole place smacks of jumping on a treadmill for the valor, not the fun. Where is the humanity or the fun?

[powcsonka]

Well then, I guess you can still forego all that automated system and as in the old days handpick your groups. You can then queue as as a group and still do your random heroic or heroic scenario or...obviously..your raids.

It is an automatic system that you use for convinience. You are thrown together with starngers that for a few minutes have the same goal. I mean..are you constantly traying to befriend people on the street, the subway who just happen to share 5 minutes of your journey?

This is a game dude. If we, as a player base, feel compelled do these mindless runs just for valor, sans the fun, then there is a game design problem, hence the title to the post.

[yjmark]

Do you consider 5-mans too large of a group? Or 10-man?

[powcsonka]

Do you consider 5-mans too large of a group? Or 10-man?

Good question. Hard to put a finite number to this. If forced to choose I would say 5 because I think it is closer to the number of real friends that also play wow, who most of us can get together.

[DarkTZeratul]

Normal person + anonymity + audience = total fuckwad

[powcsonka]

Good question. Hard to put a finite number to this. If forced to choose I would say 5 because I think it is closer to the number of real friends that also play wow, who most of us can get together.

So maybe flex 5.

[Bitlovin]

All you seem to see anymore is rudeness and hostility.

And that's exactly what you saw in Alterac Valley in early vanilla. Nothing about the community has changed. It was not an exception in vanilla, your memories are just tinged with nostalgia.

[Deleted]

This is not a bash thread. OP is 100% right about it. Blizzard is never going to change it probably and yet it's so easy to fix. MAKING GROUPS BY YOURSELF. Yes it's time consuming and yes it takes even more time to play to game, BUT, that's where it's about right? Play the game? I know that they are implementing flex raiding, but still, as long as LFR is an option to choose from... It stays the LoL CoD matchmaking rant system like almost every online game has today. I don't believe the community changed that much (now the last few years it has changed alot, since cata, mop I guess) but we even heard this at the start of Wotlk. They probably will never change it, but if they will make the game a little bit more time consuming again, to make your own party's and being able to vote kick one who doesn't do a thing or is just auto attacking the whole time. Now it's just one big rant towards each other when joining, it's impossible to even have the slightest amount of tactic implemented in LFR because it will turn every raid into a shitstorm with everyone leaving.

[powcsonka]

Good question. Hard to put a finite number to this. If forced to choose I would say 5 because I think it is closer to the number of real friends that also play wow, who most of us can get together.

Just to be clear, because my previous reply was not, 5 is probably the more ideal size.

[ringpriest]

I don't disagree with your points about how bad LFR is. But this, I do. I run heroics all the time and they're almost always fast, efficient, quiet runs that are far from unbearable.

From experience in previous iterations of LFD, I suspect you may both be right. What kind of groups you get can vary greatly depending on time you play, gear level, role, faction, and the internal mechanics of Blizzards matching algorithms.

[Alltat]

Normal person + anonymity + audience = total fuckwad

90% are fine, but you notice the fuckwads more. In a 25 man LFR group, there are rarely more than two or three such people. Most of the groups I've seen have also been good, so I think it's closer to 95% sensible people versus 5% fuckwads ruining things for everyone else.

And this is why they are unbearable to me. Yep they are quiet, to the point of if you talk, you almost feel frowned upon.

I like the quiet runs. Maybe it's just my Scandinavian heritage showing, but I don't see the silence as impolite or annoying. We're there to kill stuff, so let's get murdering instead of sitting around talking. That's what guild chat is for. If I sign up for LFD or LFR, it's because I want to play with others, not have a nice little chat with them.

[powcsonka]

90% are fine, but you notice the fuckwads more. In a 25 man LFR group, there are rarely more than two or three such people. Most of the groups I've seen have also been good, so I think it's closer to 95% sensible people versus 5% fuckwads ruining things for everyone else.


I like the quiet runs. Maybe it's just my Scandinavian heritage showing, but I don't see the silence as impolite or annoying. We're there to kill stuff, so let's get murdering instead of sitting around talking. That's what guild chat is for. If I sign up for LFD or LFR, it's because I want to play with others, not have a nice little chat with them.

You misunderstand me. I'm not there to chit chat. The game design is encouraging people to not interact with eachother. Back when it was sheep this target and off tank that one, you had interaction. That is how an RPG is supposed to be and how it was in wow when the game was truly great.

[Deleted]

WoW has always been about : make friends and play with them.

If you try to play with people you don't know on the internet nothing good will happen 99% of the time. It's captain obvious for you.