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  1. #101
    just add an extra bag slot or make the new bags 40 slot bags

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    If takes alot of work to fix that it just means the coding is extremely bad.
    If they did it properly they would've just made it a normal bad slot and put it on some kind of lock.
    And no, it's not more difficult than I am making it seem. If it really takes alot of work they just did it badly.
    No, the coding is not bad. Character is supposed to have internal storage of any kind, they didn't think it will get this out of control, also it is difficult. See picture on Page 5.

  3. #103
    I'm sure it's easy to make the bag bigger, but not so easy to make it work without breaking things. I really don't think they would be spending more time/money on other solutions if it was as easy as some people think in this thread. And if you want to throw in the whole it won't make Blizzard any money argument as the reason why Blizzard isn't doing this, they would easily (without cash shop) make it so. All they need to do is make it a time/money sink, forcing people to stay subbed for at least an extra month to get it.

    What there doing now is fine and sounds like they have good plans. It's already been shown more bag space doesn't help, is just a bandaid at best. Sure the toybox/heirloom tab could end up being the same. Hopefully they come up with a tabard/clothing(shirt at least) tab. From what I recall there also looking into something similar to the DIII transmog idea for WoW, making it so you don't need to get the items you want to transmog.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqur View Post
    They would have to store every single item from your bank/bag/equipped items, doing so for few million characters is in fact, really hard.
    From this picture you can see that they first made armor slots, after that they coded the bag.
    So your armor/weapon slots including bag slots is stored in same array.
    I dont get it why they made bank/bag/equip in one array. But anyway, why would they need to store it? If they simply moved values of slots 16 to 26 to some new array, leaving empty inaccessible array entries here? Bank and Inventory left untouched (because that array would stay obviously).
    So its matter of moving 16-26 elsewhere. Like sending it via in game mail for example?
    They are doing stuff like that anyway, transferring quest items to the new tab for 6millions characters doesnt seem to be problem?
    Last edited by z4x; 2014-03-15 at 08:24 PM.

  5. #105
    They could loop the array from array[bagstart] till array[bagends] but again, it takes time and they have bigger priorities.

  6. #106
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by z4x View Post
    I dont get it why they made bank/bag/equip in one array.
    Two Three things to keep in mind:

    1. It was coded in something like 13 years ago.

    2. Whatever solution they come up with has to work for every character ever created. Which is a lot of data. If you quit the game in Vanilla or BC and decide to come back now, you should be in pretty much the same state as you were then. Any sort of major change like this not only has to work for active players but for players who may not have logged in for eight years. That's just how they do it. And if anything goes awry anywhere then they'll need to retreat and fix that before trying again.

    3. Changing the size of a hard-coded array created over a decade ago when you now have something like 18000 subsequent game builds sitting on top of it is really just asking for it. It's easily something that could break the game. No one, even Blizzard at this point, probably has any idea how much stuff would break by changing or manipulating the array size on the original character template.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2014-03-15 at 08:35 PM.
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    I never said they are evil. FFS, they are people like you and me. If someone came to you and asked you to jump on one foot, would you do it? Now what if that same person offered you 100 dollars? You would do it. Are you an evil person? No. Stop thinking money is evil.

    Messing with code does bring in bugs if you have shitty code. This isn't code that effects 3D elements, so the likelihood of it breaking is minimal. It is a GUI and some SQL changes. I have not programmed for WoW, but I have done similar changes to games that have a bag system. Code is code. The only thing that is wrong with Blizzard's, close to, 12 years of code is that it has several layers of shit coding(old code that they have to clean up). Every so often they go in and add layers of code making it easier and easier to break old code.

    You really don't know business if you don't think they are greedy. You have a multi million dollar business, and you are task by the people that own you to make more money. Do you make more bag space just because some fans want it, or do you make a new mount to add to the shop? Gee that's a tough one. Um, I think I would do the mount to make more money so my bosses don't fire me. Do you think they are a charity? Do you think their shareholders would like them giving shit away when they are losing money?
    You don't seem too familiar with Occam's Razor. There is no monetary incentive for giving your ever bigger bags with every expansion but not your original backpack beyond knee jerk cynicism over faceless corporations.
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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    3. Changing the size of a hard-coded array created over a decade ago when you now have something like 18000 subsequent game builds sitting on top of it is really just asking for it. It's easily something that could break the game. No one, even Blizzard at this point, probably has any idea how much stuff would break by changing or manipulating the array size on the original character template.
    Firstly there isnt that many builds, there is just one build, the last one. Secondly, we arent even talking about modyfing array size or changing indexes, just moving some values and leaving the array intact. They would just not write any data on array1[16] to array1[26] anymore. I dont imagine how it would be "too hard" even on 6 millions of characters. And hardcoded, not hardcoded its doesnt matter, everything is hardcoded, lol.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by z4x View Post
    Firstly there isnt that many builds, there is just one build, the last one. Secondly, we arent even talking about modyfing array size or changing indexes, just moving some values and leaving the array intact. They would just not write any data on array1[16] to array1[26] anymore. I dont imagine how it would be "too hard" even on 6 millions of characters. And hardcoded, not hardcoded its doesnt matter, everything is hardcoded, lol.
    There are relics from past builds all over the place. There is no logical incentive to lie about this sort of thing.
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahamington View Post
    Really? Seems like it wouldn't be that hard.
    It had something to do with it being hard coded into something. If there were to change the original 16 slot bag, many things will break.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahamington View Post
    Really? Seems like it wouldn't be that hard.
    If it's a piece of coding that has literally been built on (as I can understand with the additional bag codes) since 2004 then... I understand where they're coming from it would take quite a few weeks of planning and implementation to get this reworked and do it with every players inventory, past and present intact.

    You've got to remember it's a UI change that also affects all the items stored within then and the bags 'attached' to the main backpack of the character. It looks tricky to me.
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  12. #112
    Also, it seems that Gold is also linked to the bag

  13. #113
    Fixing that bag slot would cost us a raid tier.

  14. #114
    It is okay, they will probaly soon sell a upgrade version in the in game store anytime soon
    (i am 20 and dyslexic so yes i suck at spelling)

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by BlizzardApologist View Post
    Fixing that bag slot would cost us a raid tier.
    You are so original. Actually it would probably cost you more than a raid tier. Let's say they replace it and you lose your entire 16-slot bag which includes ALL of your raid gear (with how unintelligent you comment was I am going to assume it is LFR gear) which you will then need to regain all from scratch.

  16. #116
    The Patient Mayples's Avatar
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    I wrote this out in another thread... heres a pretty basic break down of it.

    For the programmers out there, I am surprised that none of you thought of Arrays and Enums as issues for overwriting ref slots. Cmon now, programming 101.


    They can't replace backpacks because of how the old Wc3 engine inventory system was built and how it has been piggy backed on for so long and code has been built. It would literally break all the systems because of how its referenced.


    Looking in the older....builds and assembly information you can see that the bag system in Wc3 engine was just enum operators.

    example : (Note this is psuedo code, don't go all compiler error on me.)

    enum BagInventory
    {
    slot1.BagInventory
    ...
    slot12.BagInventory
    }


    when the call happened it would refrence things like, BagInventory[0] for slot 1 and BagInventory[15] for slot 16. This is how Enum and Arrays work. When they built on larger bags and new pieces they actually changed the bag system to a bag in a bag, known as.. bagception. You actually have multiple bag types that are hidden. The mem for the Bag System is actually broken up in several parts. For MOP this is how they look.


    BagInventory[0] = BackPack Array
    BagInventory[1] = BagSlot 2 Array
    BagInventory[2] = BagSlot 3 Array
    BagInventory[3] = BagSlot 4 Array
    BagInventory[4] = BagSlot 5 Array
    BagInventory[5] = MountSlot Array
    BagInventory[6] = Quest Item Array
    BagInventory[7] = Keys Array (No longer used)
    BagInventory[8] = Spells Array
    BagInventory[9] = Achievement Array
    BagInventory[10] = Title Array
    BagInventory[11] = Pets Array

    Bag Inventory[12] = Bank Enum {
    Bank.1 = Bank
    Bank.2 = Guild
    Bank.3 = Transmog
    Bank.4 = Void
    }
    BagInventory[13] = Not Used
    BagInventory[14] = Gold/Money/Currency Enum
    BagInventory[15] = Not Used
    This is important to understand that the old bag system is a bag in a bag so to say. They used this method to build larger sublists in lists to populate items being held. The problem is the engine is build using an old 16 slot system and expanded on it. Changing one part of the entire system could potentially murder the entire bag system. The two not being used is presumably where the Tabard/Heirlooms and last is the Clickies. They already said they had to wiggle around and doing these two systems will fill the entire system up which is what they are worried about. As a designer I can tell you this is a design limitation and was not thought of when the original conception was built. You have no way of planning for this without over bloating the system. So they streamlined it the same way I would have had programmers do it. It made sense then as it did before they started tacking on all the special features for you all. Since the original [0] operator needs to have spaces filled, if they don't in the array stack it will literally jack the entire thing up. This is why your forced and stuck with a backpack and can't replace it. Updating the backpack would make the [0] => Openslot of the array cycle, this would move the entire array cycle up and unless they point every variable thats referencing it (including the API for LUA) which is very very heavy tax on processing because you moved a bag, then it would literally break everything in that list.

    Example

    0 - Main Backpack
    1 - Another Bag
    ...'

    if I got a new Main Backpack,

    2 -> 1, and 1 -> to the end of the cycle not being used. in this case since 7 is a null or voided slot, it would go, 0 = Another Bag, and 7 = New bag but is treated as a KEY cycle because of the programming, and now you have a missing array key that needs to be filled. Suddenly it updates that 7 -> 6 in the death list, and now you have Keys again. (I hope that makes sense to you.)
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  17. #117
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragemv View Post
    It is okay, they will probaly soon sell a upgrade version in the in game store anytime soon
    Stop perpetuating this. Good lord.
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  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by mcnally86 View Post
    I am not a warcraft programmer and have not looked at the code. That said, if the old back is hardwired into the code could it be possible to make a system where the 16 slot hard baked bag becomes inaccessible and add a further slot for an extra one of the modular bags? I am not saying remove the 16 slot from the code they just hide it inelegantly. They removed key bags so it is not an impossible change. I really miss key bags.
    The key bag wasn't removed, it was simply re-purposed into void storage.
    A considerable difference since it remains a fixed size bag.
    Rather than simply being a traditional bag with arbitrary restrictions, it was simplified to require less information, only the item ID any given slot, hence the restrictions and stripping of modifications. That had the benefit of increasing the number of slots it contained as the data requirements were reduced significantly.
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Novx View Post
    You are so original. Actually it would probably cost you more than a raid tier. Let's say they replace it and you lose your entire 16-slot bag which includes ALL of your raid gear (with how unintelligent you comment was I am going to assume it is LFR gear) which you will then need to regain all from scratch.
    So...you keep your raid gear in your bags for some reason...you think people who do LFR are unintelligent, even though LFR mechanics are practically identical to regular difficulty mechanics and you're telling me that after theoretically using up a raid tier blizzard would roll out a patch which would be so untested and badly coded it would destroy everyone's bag contents.

    What can I say about you...at least your avatar and signature are very striking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Stop perpetuating this. Good lord.
    After they started to sell lvl 90s directly out of the shop, considering a year ago they were making statements about not wanting players to speed through content and miss the hard work of artists, he can perpetuate whatever the hell he wants, because it probably has a chance of being true.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Grahamington View Post
    Really? Seems like it wouldn't be that hard.
    You should probably acquire an understanding of programming and coding before you go around declaring what is and is not hard for a programmer to do.
    I'm not a defender of Blizzard, I'm an opponent of stupid.

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