Why dont bears die?

[TomGreen]

Since when have bears become so resilient in pvp? I dont remember them in cata or even wotlk being this good. Its so hard to bring one down. God forbid they carry the flag. Sprint across the map in cat or travel form and then tank everything in bear.

What has made them so good this time round?

[Deleted]

All them picnic baskets!

[villie]

Don't forget the stolen honeypots!!!

On topic tho; try 85% resil, huge avoidance and crit suppression coupled with hp.

Bet your melee as well? If so natures grasp on 15secs cd with glyph

[Strakha]

Since when have bears become so resilient in pvp? I dont remember them in cata or even wotlk being this good. Its so hard to bring one down. God forbid they carry the flag. Sprint across the map in cat or travel form and then tank everything in bear.

What has made them so good this time round?

I think it is because the last season of pvp is almost always a joke and incurs a series of "WTF this class so OP" then the class that is OP is nerfed in the first season of the next expansion and then by the end of that expansion they are OP again.

Happens mostly to warriors, but I'm noticing it seems to be melee that ramp up at the end and casters that are good at the beginning of expansions. Scaling etc.

[Blithe]

I think it is because the last season of pvp is almost always a joke and incurs a series of "WTF this class so OP" then the class that is OP is nerfed in the first season of the next expansion and then by the end of that expansion they are OP again.

Happens mostly to warriors, but I'm noticing it seems to be melee that ramp up at the end and casters that are good at the beginning of expansions. Scaling etc.

Druid's have always been annoying with their ability to completely negate roots and snares without a price to pay (should at least have a cooldown, or higher mana cost to deter it from being spammed).

That being said, Strakha is right. Anything that has horrible scaling or is really bad in the first season usually ends up being overpowered in the second last/last season.

[dacoolist]

Agree Fully! Bears are insane for survivability in PVP, but I guess... it's just the way it is. I'm a warrior, I hit stuff hard, but even if I was in Dstance+Protection, I would have half the survivability as a bear.

[Illiterate]

I heard the tank debuff was not affecting bears as it's supposed to

[Raugnaut]

I heard the tank debuff was not affecting bears as it's supposed to

No, thats ferals, who have basically the same survivabilty as Bears when flag carrying, just less health.

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, for bears, lets see what all they get..

First) Mobility. Travel form being a bit over 60% movement speed. Cat form+Dash for mount speed. Stampeding Roar. Can get out of snares/roots with a global. Immunity to Polymorph effects. Ability to spec into a "blink" for instant movement out of melee, or spec into a charge/intervene type talent.

Second) Utility. Has Typhoon for roof defense. Can get a 3 second disorient or Ursol's Vortex. If not being pressured too hard, can Cyclone to peel. Nature's Grasp can root a melee. Can spec into 15 sec CD 3 second silence. Has a slightly-ranged interupt. Attacks slow. Can toss out healing, either with Dream of Cenarious, or Heart of the Wild (50k heals about once/20 seconds, or 45 seconds of spamming rejuve on every target in range once/6 mins). Can also Tranq if not being focused. Can stealth.

Third) Survivability. Takes 25% less spell damage as Guardian, 12% less melee damage, 70% armor. Has 55% extra stamina compared to everyone else (Bears will pretty much have over 1 mil HP at 550 ilvl.) 6% crit chance reduction. Survival Insticts, baseline 50% damage reduction CD. Barkskin with almost 50% uptime on 20% damage reduction, usable anytime, and has 25% crit chance reduction (31% less chance to crit. Only agi-based classes will be able to crit a druid during barkskin, which is HUGE. Makes Barkskin closer to a 50% damage reduction CD with 50% uptime). Renewal is 30% heal that is NOT affected by Battle Fatigue (That, or it can crit). Might of Ursoc is a HUGE heal when glyphed (I have pulled off a lot of sub-50k health while focused situations to 1.2mil health in an instant with glyphed Ursoc+Renewal, throw in a cookie and it's pretty much a LoH no matter what, except on a shorter CD). Small consistent self-healing in the form of Frenzied Regen, and LotP heals (2% health per 6 seconds, or .5% health per second as long as you are whacking something). Can use Frenzied Regen to possibly dodge melee stun attacks (Feral/Rogue/Monk stuns).

Basically, druids have superior EVERYTHING in the departments that matter to flag-carriers.

[Ihnasir]

Because we're awesome.

[Bsod]

yesterday there was a bear in the battleground with aroung 700k hp and 3 meele +2 range dps were not able to kill him at all (~10 min fight)
most of them had bad equip (instant level 90 gear etc) but this is still insane.

[Rorke]

Third) Survivability. Takes 25% less spell damage as Guardian, 12% less melee damage, 70% armor. Has 55% extra stamina compared to everyone else (Bears will pretty much have over 1 mil HP at 550 ilvl.) 6% crit chance reduction. Survival Insticts, baseline 50% damage reduction CD. Barkskin with almost 50% uptime on 20% damage reduction, usable anytime, and has 25% crit chance reduction (31% less chance to crit. Only agi-based classes will be able to crit a druid during barkskin, which is HUGE. Makes Barkskin closer to a 50% damage reduction CD with 50% uptime). Renewal is 30% heal that is NOT affected by Battle Fatigue (That, or it can crit). Might of Ursoc is a HUGE heal when glyphed (I have pulled off a lot of sub-50k health while focused situations to 1.2mil health in an instant with glyphed Ursoc+Renewal, throw in a cookie and it's pretty much a LoH no matter what, except on a shorter CD). Small consistent self-healing in the form of Frenzied Regen, and LotP heals (2% health per 6 seconds, or .5% health per second as long as you are whacking something). Can use Frenzied Regen to possibly dodge melee stun attacks (Feral/Rogue/Monk stuns).

Hahaha this is insane. I would play a Guardian if there was no bear form. Would be cool if Prot Paladins/Warriors were built like this.

With that aside, they need to nerf Blood DK's some more.

[GKLeatherCraft]

Because we truly are epic, I love it, W-PvP is where I play mostly, and I havea very nice damage output too, so If I'm looking for kills I'll always attack Horde, regardless if they are alone, or in a group, me and a Feral friend of mine were on timeless last week, and it took a group of 9 Horde, 12minutes (according to chat timestamps) to kill us, and they had a healer, and we got many, many kills on them, which, being timeless, they just ressed in 30 secs or less, it was epic

[Deleted]

I dont have a problem with killing any class atm on my Aff lock apart from Holy Palas and Resto Shamans, for some reason theyre a bitch to bring down ;p
I've wiped out a fair few FC Bears unless that is they have a healer with them then theyre near unkillable. But yea i dont know if Aff has had a buff (i dont read notes i just play hehe) but i seem to melt people far easier than before and ive only got 3 prideful pieces atm.. happy days atm

[Fahrenheit]

As a feral druid I have no issues defeating guardian druids, in fact in one on one situations I really have no issues with anyone. But I could see how you'd think guardians are the best flag carriers.

[Blithe]

As a feral druid I have no issues defeating guardian druids, in fact in one on one situations I really have no issues with anyone. But I could see how you'd think guardians are the best flag carriers.

Sorry but Ferals were replaced by Windwalkers as the best one vs. one class, buddy. Honestly, it's the fact that they can spam shapeshift to get out of roots and snares, it's a permanent freedom, as well as polymorph immunity which in itself is pretty overpowered. Sure it adds flavor, but there needs to be some drawback. A higher mana cost, or something to make it useful to shift, but detrimental to spam it would be nice.

[Reveries1]

Well base resilience went up so tanks that have high stam like bears get a bigger boost in effective health. As everyone slides over to the 550 gear druid tanks will only become less effective. Not saying they will get face rolled or anything just saying they scale the best with baseline resilience increase and damage output hasn't caught up.

[Deleted]

With that aside, they need to nerf Blood DK's some more.

You just lost all credibility with that statement. Blood DKs are the weakest flag carriers possible. Nuke from him from afar, and slow/root him so he can't get in range to death strike, if you can deny him death strikes with disarms, stuns, & rooting he'll go down like a sack of spuds.

We faced a blood DK flag carrier in an RBG and he was easy to take out.

Guardian druids on the other hand are dreadfully OP and so many teams run with them now.

[Deleted]

Because we're awesome.

Thats why! Haters gonna hate. Dont you PvP players whine so they change my class in PvE, I warn you!

[Funked]

Bears are invincible since they got their own specc for surviving. Like they needed that..

[nightfalls]

I dont have a problem with killing any class atm on my Aff lock apart from Holy Palas and Resto Shamans, for some reason theyre a bitch to bring down ;p
I've wiped out a fair few FC Bears unless that is they have a healer with them then theyre near unkillable. But yea i dont know if Aff has had a buff (i dont read notes i just play hehe) but i seem to melt people far easier than before and ive only got 3 prideful pieces atm.. happy days atm

I last played Aff Lock in Cataclysm so this was true then, and playing an HPal now I think it's still true now, but Affliction's always been most threatening just due to multi-target pressure and the dispel protection. It's not very threatening 1v1 in terms of heavy, heavy upfront damage.

As a healer you can't let an Aff Lock freecast and you can't fall behind on their DoTs, or basically you just fall victim to the old "dot cleave."