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  1. #181
    The only real downside to buyable 90's is that you don't have the leveling process with which to learn your class mechanics and abilities.

    However, can you honestly tell me that you think a new player would be able to learn, given the current leveling process? I sure don't think so. There's also the point of playing with your friends. New players now-a-days are generally brought to the game by a friend that's been playing for a while. However, most people will then have to wait quite a long time before they level far enough and gear enough to legitimately play with those friends. Not to mention having to learn their characters once they reach level 90 to a sufficient skill-level that their friend wouldn't need to carry them through the majority of content.

    WoW is an old game. Buyable 90's don't hurt anyone.

  2. #182
    What I love is the fact that the 'immersion' argument was used by them here to justify not including such services. But ruining 'immersion' was not enough to keep them from including it anyway. But it's 'immersion' that's making them take out flying but NOT the fact that they can save development dollars by not having to program content that allows for it.
    We have felled demon commanders, cowed the master of death, conquered Old Gods, and stopped the Aspect of Death from destroying the very planet. Now, we need to kill this dude who managed to enslave pudding eating panda's, slobbering sauroks, and hilariously inept hozen. Awesome. Really epic.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    So...they no longer value the integrity of the game? yay....
    what's the difference between a power lvler who sells lvl 90s and Blizzard who sells lvl 90s? Blizzard states that it is against the TOS to sell characters for real life money, so as long as Blizzard is doing it, it's ok.

  4. #184
    The Patient Yimereh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Utter rubbish.
    A player chooses to not let a newbie tank actually tank.
    Blizzard did not make a player be an ass, only the player dictated that.

    The community sucks ONLY because of the players making it that way.
    Try asking a player to level without heirloom, and see their reluctance.
    See the threads whining about how the game is now "too easy".
    See the contradiction there, how for experienced players and even newbies the levelling is easier than it has ever been, but there is a greater rush than ever to reach level cap.

    You can't cater to the experienced players in levelling content without hurting those who aren't.

    If you want challenge, go look for it.
    Go solo stuff above your level.
    Don't ask for challenge to be handed to you on a silver platter, and whine when it isn't.
    You certainly can cater to experienced players while not hurting beginners, I'm honestly not sure where you got that idea from. If 10% of a zone's design was dedicated to challenging content while allowing the other 90% to fulfill all the needs of a beginner substantially how would that hurt the game? The challenging content could reward blue quality gear based on your spec to encourage the beginners to try and reach to these heights while not making them mandatory.

    In Cata/MoP for example you don't have to kill a single rare mob throughout the zones to naturally progress but if you see a rare mob it is worth your time to give them a shot. A beginner will probably get killed a few times before comprehending why they are being killed if they comprehend it at all. The problem with this is that when a beginner dies to a rare someone else will probably take it before they get another chance. If let's say rare mobs were phased for each player like the timeless isle chests(even if we have to call them something different so we don't piss all over people's current definition of rare) this provides a repeat challenge for a beginner to test themselves in a solo environment while giving experienced players an easy way to get gear and experience while keeping them a little more alert.

    To take this further, if we are using phasing then allow people to adjust "rare" mob difficulty to provide greater reward and greater challenge for those who seek it. After you've defeated all of your 1 time "rare" mobs on the highest difficulty they could become non-phased max level rare mobs that provide good starter gear and rewards with max level challenge and competition that spontaneously appear. Applying something like this to all of the low level zones in places that don't directly interfere with questing would be an excellent start to improving the leveling experience for everyone. The rewards for max difficulty rare mobs could be enough to allow players to simply farm all of the rare mobs to get to max level while also gearing them up which would be a very rewarding and challenging experience.

    My post had nothing to do with the community's treatment of one another in game and the community is something that can, for the most part, be avoided during the leveling process. A player not allowing a new tank to tank has absolutely nothing to do with the leveling process and exists in virtually every corner of this game.

    Taking on mobs that are higher level than yourself without gear isn't a very rewarding experience for those looking for challenge. The first thing you do at max level(at least you are supposed to) is reach your hit and expertise rating requirements and this is being removed from the game because it flat out isn't fun or engaging. Taking on mobs of higher level without gear is not a rewarding experience because you are missing every other attack, they don't provide you any worthwhile gold, resources or gear and elongate the leveling process even further without any incentive. If Heroic raids or LFR provided nearly no gear, no gold and no resources, the percentage of people doing them would plummet.

    This game, and most games, are built on incentives and rewards to encourage players to keep playing. Every player's incentive to play a game should be fun, how they derive that will be different than others. Saying that you can't cater to both beginners and veterans without hurting the other is very closed minded as Blizzard has already taken logical steps in doing so but these elements are completely absent from the early game and under used in the mid-late game.
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  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Asiel View Post
    The only real downside to buyable 90's is that you don't have the leveling process with which to learn your class mechanics and abilities.
    "Hmm. What shall I do with this mob? I know, I will pull it and auto-attack, then try out some abilities to see what works. Ok, pull the mob. Now, I will....oh wait, it's dead."

    Yup, levelling in WoW, a great way to learn class mechanics. Like rotations? Err, no. Crowd Control? Err, not really. Cooldowns? Like you ever get to use any of them. Levelling in WoW teaches you that mobs eating your face don't hurt. That things die to auto-attack. That standing in fire doesn't really make a difference. Then you get to 90, and hit LFR. And everyone has a go at you for not magically learning how to play.
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  6. #186
    Can the people shouting "haters" and so on go screw themselves? This is the reality: Blizzard is a company trying to make as much money as possible. Every time they have to choose between making the game better or making money, they'll pick making money. Like when Ghostcrawler wrote a big blog on why they weren't nerfing the Cataclysm heroics, and then 2 days later they nerfed every single one of them to the ground.

    They will keep trying to squeeze as much money out of their customers as possible. Now, most of these so called "haters" don't hate Blizzard. They are the customers forcing Blizzard to actually try and make the game any good because clearly a lot of people here will accept anything Blizzard does and defend every single decision they make. If you don't hold Blizzard to a high standard you're letting them get away with trading game quality for money income.

    tl;dr: Not being a fanboy does not make you a hater.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Elian View Post
    what's the difference between a power lvler who sells lvl 90s and Blizzard who sells lvl 90s? Blizzard states that it is against the TOS to sell characters for real life money, so as long as Blizzard is doing it, it's ok.
    Yeah, whats the difference between a shady third-party given access to your account, or sell's accounts from unverified sources, and an official company store that doesn't compromise your security, I can't tell the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rioo View Post
    tl;dr: Not being a fanboy does not make you a hater.
    Not agreeing with people who think selling 90's is bad doesn't make you a fanboy either.
    Last edited by NoiseTank13; 2014-03-15 at 06:21 PM.
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  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Power Leveling isn't the same as buying a 90. The people that buy the new 90's will still have to work towards level 100.
    What are you talking about? You can currently only go up to 90. THat's the current level cap and content is ONLY for level 90.

    You won't be able to even go past 90 until at LEAST six-months from now.

    Your argument would've had merit AT WOD'S RELEASE.

    Putting this half a YEAR before that level cap gets moved? No. I'd understand MAYBE a month before WoD's release so players can prep, but a half a YEAR before?

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    What are you talking about? You can currently only go up to 90. THat's the current level cap and content is ONLY for level 90.

    You won't be able to even go past 90 until at LEAST six-months from now.

    Your argument would've had merit AT WOD'S RELEASE.

    Putting this half a YEAR before that level cap gets moved? No. I'd understand MAYBE a month before WoD's release so players can prep, but a half a YEAR before?
    It also really hurts the entry level endgame experience. LFR is a tool used by a very wide variety of people(which is IMO the problem with LFR) and now the population of people who have no idea what they are doing or don't care just skyrocketed. This wouldn't be so negative if, like you suggested, this was implemented 1 month before WoD release when people are just preparing for WoD but the timing of it right now just hurts everyone who uses LFR.

    I think the leveling system sucks but if a player re-subs just to skip that entire process, what exactly should we expect of them in an environment like LFR. Leveling(as painful as it is after the first couple of times) at least demonstrates a players commitment to reach the end game and will more than likely result in a player putting forth greater effort to succeed. If someone saves their ass off for a brand new car, odds are they are more likely to take care of it because they earned it. If someone just gets a new car given to them without any effort there is a much greater chance they won't appreciate it as much as the person who earned it and over the course of time the level of appreciation will become tangible through the overall condition of the car.
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  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You completely missed what they said. The level 90 boost is a good move to get more new players.
    Why was the paid part of that service needed if all they wanted is just new players?

  11. #191
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    Things change. What might not be considered appropriate at one time could end up being a standard later in an ever changing game like WoW. They have an excellent way of collecting data about the player base and making adjustments based on that.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Oooooor it's what put it on the path to destruction in the first place?
    You seem to have forgotten that WoW started bleeding subs back in WotLK when the whole "casual" thing started. Ironic dont you think?

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by edmorte View Post
    It's beyond me why is so difficult to forget wow, it's always the bashing in a product that surpassed its prime a long ago, it's just getting comfortable to go F2P.
    WoW is so far from going free to play it is silly to even mention it. Their subscriber base is still counted in the millions, closer to 10 million than 1 million and actually saw a small upswing recently. Free to play usually happens when a game has dropped to the low hundreds of thousands.

  14. #194
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    Everyone take a deep breath and knock it off with the defenders/haters stuff. It's off-topic to start with and I might just start infracting you for derailing the thread.
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  15. #195
    The difference between Blizzards 90 boost and a typical power-leveling service is manifold, but the major points are simple:

    If you want full professions, it's up to you to level them, or to level the character to 60 first. Most secondary professions not included with the 60.
    When WoD hits, it will be up to you to level to 100.
    At no point is the character out of your direct control.
    At no point is your account turned over to a third party.

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  16. #196
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    Think about it this way: The game is nearly 10 years old and as of WoD will have 100 levels to climb through to be able to play at max level. It has gotten to a point where many new players just give up on the game before they even get to current content that they paid for. This costs the developers by making it such a daunting task for new and returning players to even just get into playing the current game.

    If the game has built itself up to a point where it pushes new players away from from trying it out, then there is a problem.

    This is why the level 90 boost exists and is included with the expansion purchase. It is, from the developers perspective, necessary for the game to thrive in the years to come. The boosts don't get rid of the leveling experience, they just make it much less daunting for new and returning players to join and stay subscribed to the game, and I get that my argument would bear little weight if WoW revolved around leveling, but even the devs will tell you that the game is mostly intended to be played at max level.

    Without the boost included with WoD, the game will become less and less feasible to join over time. This is why it was added. The additionally purchasable boosts might be a source of extra profit, but they're also optional. A blue post from a year ago shouldn't matter in this situation- Blizzard is trying to ensure that the game will thrive for future expansions, and if it's possible to gain a little extra money from doing so, then so be it. It doesn't matter to me if someone chooses to buy a boost for their alt, but it does matter to me when friends can't join or return to the game because of its daunting size.
    Last edited by SunspotAnims; 2014-03-15 at 09:35 PM.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Knightmare View Post
    Think about it this way: The game is nearly 10 years old and as of WoD will have 100 levels to climb through to be able to play at max level. It has gotten to a point where many new players just give up on the game before they even get to current content that they paid for. This costs the developers by making it such a daunting task for new and returning players to even just get into playing the current game.

    If the game has built itself up to a point where it pushes new players away from from trying it out, then there is a problem.

    This is why the level 90 boost exists and is included with the expansion purchase. It is, from the developers perspective, necessary for the game to thrive in the years to come. The boosts don't get rid of the leveling experience, they just make it much less daunting for new and returning players to join and stay subscribed to the game, and I get that my argument would bear little weight if WoW revolved around leveling, but even the devs will tell you that the game is mostly intended to be played at max level.

    Without the boost included with WoD, the game will become less and less feasible to join over time. This is why it was added. The additionally purchasable boosts might be a source of extra profit, but they're also optional. A blue post from a year ago shouldn't matter in this situation- Blizzard is trying to ensure that the game will thrive for future expansions, and if it's possible to gain a little extra money from doing so, then so be it. It doesn't matter to me if someone chooses to buy a boost for their alt, but it does matter to me when friends can't join or return to the game because of its daunting size.


    ...but when I think about it - since the expansion isn't out yet, let alone a release date - and as it's going to be half a year until it comes out, this idea has absolutely no merit being released at this point.
    Fixed that for you.

    I was all on board with this 90 boost at the release of the expansion... but the expansion has NOT been released yet, nor is there ANY sign of it appearing until 6+ months from now MINIMUM.

    All you bought with your 50 bucks is a level 90 boost for one character and some chickens for the next half-a-year. It's just a good clever promo to push subs up (notice it's now just 2 weeks until the end of the fiscal quarter...) and to guarantee a purchased copy of the game half a year away from its release in anticipation of dropping subs out of sheer boredom.

    EDIT: oh, and BTW, your digital purchase today will count towards their total first-weekend sales in the Fall for WoD, even if you get bored and go play Wildstar or something else and come back later...
    Last edited by mvaliz; 2014-03-15 at 09:48 PM.

  18. #198
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarch the Conqueror View Post
    Anyone who has kept their eyes on Blizzard over the past year would already know what I'm talking about. Even the moderators of this board often question Blizzard's approach to how they relay information and then either change their opinion or do not deliver on it. The most recent example of it is the WoD approximate release date, but such has happened at least a several dozen times already over the past decade.
    It's happening a lot right now. Some of it is related to corporate messaging and a lack of co-ordination on it at all but I could make a nice long off-topic post about the many things that have popped up since Blizzcon that taken together indicate that something is awry at Blizzard, especially with their lead MMO and this expansion in particular.

    That said, I don't actually have any problems with Blizzard changing their mind on this one to a stance that's in agreement with a large percentage of their players: a stance that today is best stated as "The game begins at 90." Not everyone is going to agree with that statement but unarguably a different sort of game starts at endgame and if that's where the money is, Blizzard is correct in a business sense to put most of their efforts there. Including providing ways for people to get on the same page. Whether or not that's some deep betrayal of principles or them just waking up to a reality they wished to deny, so be it.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2014-03-15 at 10:05 PM.
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  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    It's happening a lot right now. Some of it is related to corporate messaging and a lack of co-ordination on it at all but I could make a nice long off-topic post about the many things that have popped up since Blizzcon that taken together indicate that something is awry at Blizzard, especially with their lead MMO and this expansion in particular.
    Could you make this post at some point? My curiousity has been poked.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randec View Post
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8568378868#18

    The above is a link to a Blue Post from a Blizzard rep. explaining how skipping content in this fashion ruins the game.



    Emphasis mine.
    Bolded the only thing that matters, you mention skipping. The blizzard post talks about powerlvling which is someone else playing or doing it for you, totally different things. They even mention "there are many in-game and promotion related options available to help you level", at the time that was RaF and such, now its the 90 boost that was just added, get over it. Grasping at Straws.

    Nothing to see Here. Move along.

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