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  1. #41
    WoW has been successful because it was not that sort of game.
    I can understand the desire from some people to replicate the "best times" of wow by trying to replicate the atmosphere, even if they are going about it completely the wrong way.
    But this is just something entirely different.

    If you want some ultra hardcore game with a tiny playerbase, then I am sure there are those out there for you.
    You vastly overestimate the popularity that sort of game would have, otherwise there would be one out there already with millions of subscribers.
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    T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

  2. #42
    Scarab Lord Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    One of the reasons why WoW even got to be so popular was because it didn't have those consequences. Who the heck truly wants to lose experience and items just because you died in a multiplayer game where character progression is the key to play the game (okay, the punchline is Diablo Hardcore Mode, but I digress)?

    Still, MMO grinding is far worse than Diablo grinding, where in the latter it's easy to hit max level and gain nice items to progress your character. Having massive penalties for dying is counter-productive to what makes MMOs fun in the first place and just deter more people from playing them than getting people invested.

  3. #43
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by z4x View Post
    LFD and LFR killed community
    Flying killed the world
    Whiners killed the rest

    There you go, a lobby game without consequences.
    What community exactly? There was never such a thing as a community, as much as people like to believe that. There were always guilds and circle of friends competing for raid kills or pvp e-peen. That hasn't changed. The community on a realm is the people you befriend and get to know, that has nothing to do with LFR or dungeon finder.

    I agree somewhat on making the world smaller than it is, but I do love my flying mounts.

    Whiners killed the rest, no idea what you mean by that. What did they kill?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clukclukbewm View Post
    WoW has been the most popular mmo to date. I'm hoping with Wildstar and ESO the devs will be forced to do actual work on improving the game when they lose fucktons of subs because they fail to put out quality content. They have been able to just kinda dick around on the top of the hill, but good games will force them to wake up.

    As far as gameplay goes, the devs have been shitting on it since wrath. It will take a few expansions of very good development in order to fix anything.
    Without giving examples and just stating things, your post holds no merit. MOP has been the best expansion to date if you consider gameplay, graphics and story telling.
    My favorite expansion is Wotlk, but only because of the lore. The immersion, engagement while questing and world design are way better in MOP.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    OK I understand maybe not wanting stuff like an EXP loss or loss of gear. That is mostly due to the way gear works in WoW. The reason it did work in a game like UO is because gear was very easy to get and most of it was player crafted. Obviously if you spent 4 months or more getting geared it would be stupid to have something in game where you could get DCed and lose everything.

    But why is there no consequences for the social aspect of the game? I remember some guy raging for an entire BG once. He told people they failed at life. They should go kill themselves. I think he used every possible swear word in the same sentence. What happened? Nothing because I had him in the same BG again a few days later and he was still saying the same stuff. Thats just unacceptable. If people go into dungeons and are bad nothing happens. If you are an asshole or are a bad then why should the community be able to do something about it? Yes I know I could just put them on ignore but why should they still continue to take part in the game? There should be a penalty for trying to be bad or rude on purpose.

    I agree. Blizzard should be much, much harsher on these types of players; they are what is causing damage to the game and the community. Not LFD/LFR.

    Problem is that Blizzard only has so many GM's to handle issues like that along with other issues like helping players who've had their accounts hacked ect ect. In an ideal world those toxic players would either be permabanned or better yet Blizzard should have a few servers set aside specifically for toxic players; if a player becomes a constant problem he or she is automatically removed from the server and put on those special servers with other bad players. If people can't act like a person and treat people like, well, people, they don't deserve to play with them.

  5. #45
    Mechagnome Randec's Avatar
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    Not having enough money IRL to buy the boost has consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    I have, unfortunately, interacted with Randec on these forums before. I know what to expect from him.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Randec View Post
    Not having enough money IRL to buy the boost has consequences.
    If you can't afford something in WoW the consequences are going to hit you in your day to day life not wow. Then again if you cannot afford to get a boost, which nobody needs, you probably have more then enough time to level up the old fashioned way. The insanely fast old fashioned way.
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  7. #47
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alundra View Post
    Simply? WoW isn't that type of MMO.
    Precisely.

    The game just really isn't that type of game. What you're looking for, appears to be something else.

    There are plenty of games where there are plenty of consequences, but that was never really WoW and will never be WoW.
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  8. #48
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    In the first 3 words the OP anwered his own question. "In older MMOs". It is 2014 not 2000. The player base in the MMO world is VERY VERY different to the one 10 plus years ago. People don't push thought content. They get bored and leave. Adding more consequences would just push more people away from MMO's not closer.
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  9. #49
    WoW almost had an experience penalty for using the spirit healer to get your corpse back. They nerfed that to a gold/time sink instead (durability hit and the stat debuff), but the function name in the API remained.

    http://wowpedia.org/API_AcceptXPLoss

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    But why is there no consequences for the social aspect of the game?
    Human brains are optimized for life in a tribe with no more than 150 members, and most of those will exist in real life and not in WoW. WoW has millions, you would run into thousands doing day to day activities.

    Quite simply, WoW is bigger than what humans can handle. Everyone outside your 150 person limit is just a noise making object that doesn't matter. Why does no one care about the BG rager? Assuming they even have BG chat on (I never do) they forgot about his existence probably before they even finished reading whatever profanity he decided to use.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    OK I understand maybe not wanting stuff like an EXP loss or loss of gear. That is mostly due to the way gear works in WoW. The reason it did work in a game like UO is because gear was very easy to get and most of it was player crafted. Obviously if you spent 4 months or more getting geared it would be stupid to have something in game where you could get DCed and lose everything.

    But why is there no consequences for the social aspect of the game? I remember some guy raging for an entire BG once. He told people they failed at life. They should go kill themselves. I think he used every possible swear word in the same sentence. What happened? Nothing because I had him in the same BG again a few days later and he was still saying the same stuff. Thats just unacceptable. If people go into dungeons and are bad nothing happens. If you are an asshole or are a bad then why should the community be able to do something about it? Yes I know I could just put them on ignore but why should they still continue to take part in the game? There should be a penalty for trying to be bad or rude on purpose.
    Just keep reporting him. You saw him a few days after the first time. If it had been his first offence you reported probably nothing, but he could have had 4 or 12 hours ban. Just report him every time it occurs. If you are not reporting him, your problem. Reporting someone puts them on a temporary ignore so you cannot hear him raging. If you go all coy and say you do not report then how does Blizz know about bad behaviour and you deserve him. btw the more someone is reported the longer the bans get until they are permanent. If you are not reporting, do not complain, it is your fault people get away with things. It is not mine because I always report, whether in dungeon, bg, trade where ever. It is the ones who do not report who are to blame.

  12. #52
    Love the argument that Lots of subscribers = good game.
    Almost as air tight as the logic people use when they say 'If you do not like X you can quit, Blizzard do not make mistakes'.

    I still go back to wow every once in a while to do BG's, but that is becoming less and less. It is true WoW was never hardcore, but it was also not this casual originally, people are allowed to not like the direction a game is taking without drones needing to get so defensive of Blizzard. They are a company after your money, not your friend.

    The glory days are gone, they are going to milk this cash cow as long as they can, and to be honest when WoW eventually dies, and it will, I do not think history will remember Blizzard as a nice company, they will be remembered as that company who nickle and dimed their customers at every opportunity. Truely a shame.

  13. #53
    Stood in the Fire Steve the Sloth's Avatar
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    This just brought me back to the OG Runescape days. While it wasn't on the same level as UO or the like, it was still a blast to wreck people who were chopping down trees in the middle of nowhere and take their stuff.

  14. #54
    because wow is a better game ?
    Yeah. Wow got bad players. But having a game where you get killed by other players and lose all your gear is just retarded. Look at wow. Look at how much time and energy you need to put in to be able to defeat heroic bosses. If a group of deuchebags could gather up and go gank people and steal their gear. No progress would be made and the game wouldnt be played. There is a reason why no other shitty mmo games have had nearly the same amount of players that wow had. Yes had. Wow is going down now and wod wont give it a lot of new players.

  15. #55
    Stood in the Fire Hooliganz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cantwingrr View Post
    Eh, people carry almost all their important things on their person at all times. Considering how easy it is to die even by accident like misclicking your mount off in the air or something... Maybe if banks were more prevalent and easier to access with quit a bit more organization tools and space to put stuff, that might be able to happen.
    when you misclick there is a big chance nobody was stalking you in the first place and a big chance to run back and get your gear again

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    In older MMOs your actions and even the actions of others had consequences. In Ultima Online you could be killed by players at any time while outside towns. If a player killed you they looted all your gear. If you happened to have your house key on you then they also got a nice new house for free. If you died deep in a dungeon your corpse rotted. If you were a PKer you gained a murder count which meant you couldnt enter towns and if you were killed you could not rez without a penalty until it went away.

    In Everquest if you died you had a corpse run and an exp loss requiring a rez. There were factions for everything. If you were an evil race you could not enter good cities and vice versa. During Velious expansion they added factions for armor quests. Picking one meant you became enemies to the other 2. Killing in plane of growth made you KoS in the high elf city. Also there were consequences of how you played. If you were a helpful player you gained friends and thus groups. If you were good at your class you got groups. On the other hand if you were an asshole ninja looter people plastered your name on that server's forums and you didnt get groups. If you were a trade scammer people made it known and no one ever traded with you again. If you sucked and didnt know how to play you didnt get groups. Once word got around that you were a bad or a jerk the only way to get rid of that was pretty much rerolling to another server with a different name and hope no one found out.

    On the other hand in WoW you can be the worst player in the world or a total douche bag asshole and what happens? Not a damn thing. You can still raid. You can still trade. You can still get groups. You can still get gear. Nothing you do will ever have a negative result. There are no factions to ruin. No possible way for an Orc to ever become hated by another Horde race. Doesnt that kinda take away from the game? Having negative consequences for your actions both within the actual game and also in the community makes you think about what you are doing. I know stuff like corpse decay resulting in total gear loss wouldnt work in WoW because of loot being harder to get but there should be something. There is no penalty for being a bad player who doesnt know how to play. There is no penalty for dying in PvP. There is no penalty for dying in PvE. There is no penalty for being a douche bag. Even if you do go the forums and post about someone being a ninja looter, a scammer, or a bad the post is immediately removed and you get infracted. I mean really? You are trying to warn the community to stay away from someone and you are the one who gets punished? Shouldnt there at least be some consequences for negative actions?
    Play on US Mannoroth and take a look at how people talk about me and see if being a troll/douche doesn't have its consequences. I can't really join any top end guilds anymore :P But it's k I've gone casulol ;_;

  17. #57
    Stood in the Fire Steve the Sloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooliganz View Post
    when you misclick there is a big chance nobody was stalking you in the first place and a big chance to run back and get your gear again
    Just thinking about this freaks me out. I can't remember which game it was (I believe an old zombie MMO) and it spawns you in the woods in the middle of nowhere. I spent almost an hour running on foot and eventually found a nearby hospital and after scavenging around the area a bit, turns out a pack of like 10 players were following me the whole time. Needless to say, I hate that feeling in and outside of video games and I'm glad it's not prevalent in most games today.

  18. #58
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Just imagine if people in WoW could loot all your stuff, when you they kill you.

  19. #59
    Stood in the Fire
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    Every time you die in PVE your gear wears a little you need to run to your corpse sometimes a long way is that not a penalty. ?

    Some quest can be failed and you have to redo them another penalty.

    Naming and shaming rule on the forums is to protect the innocent unfortunately it protects the guilty as well.

    But lying and cheating seems to be part of human nature so maybe it's a good rule.

  20. #60
    I'll be the first to say that full loot PvP is a very very bad idea in a game where level and gear disparities are so incredibly high.

    On the PvE side of things? The death penalty here is kind of a sad joke, and there are much more interesting ways to go about it.
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