Crimean referendum

[Elim Garak]

I'm pretty sure how this whole charade went down is against international law.

Which one?

[rogueMatthias]

I'm pretty sure how this whole charade went down is against international law.

Because them throwing out their previous government was totally legit? For everyone moaning about Russia breaking the rules, we flat out ignored the Ukraine and our agreements with them when their last leader needed us (as corrupt and crazy as he may have been) just because he didn't serve EU interests. I've found pretty much this whole debacle a bit hypocritical since then. We shouldn't even be contemplating letting a country in such recent political turmoil into the EU at all and should let them sort out their problems and stabalise as a country for years first.

Crimea has a large Russian majority of people there and became part of a pro-russia Ukraine. Now that the rest of the Ukraine seems to be very Anti-Russia, is it any wonder that a lot of people there want to break away and join back with Russia?

Just let it go already, or everyone there will have decades of bickering from people who don't want to be a part of an Anti-Russia Ukraine (and by bickering I mean bombings and terrorism possibly even funded by Russia)

[May90]

It wasn't revolution, revolution involves much more people than it was on Maidan, it was armed coup.

Oh, but you are wrong. Revolutions sometimes are done by a small group of people supported by the majority of people in general. Good examples is revolution in your country in 1917, when a group of armed guys captured the parliament and declared a new order. Or in Chili, where a few hundred armed men shot off the guards, closed off the building and forced the gov officials to proclaim him as a leader. In both cases, the "coup", as you say, was executed by less than 0.001% of population, but was supported by much more - and that's what let those dictators stay in charge later. Coups cannot be done despite the opinion of the majority - such a government won't be accepted by people and will be forced to give up all the power. Have you seen what happened to Muslim crazies in Egypt when they decided to go against the people who wanted a nice peaceful country after throwing away corrupt Mubarak and got new Iran being built?

Majority of Ukrainian people was against this coup and wanted to keep Yanukovich in place.

Have you done the survey? What facts lead you to believe that "majority" wanted to keep Yanukovich in place? From what I've heard, Yanukovich was not a particularly popular president.

[BreathTaker]

Oh, but you are wrong. Revolutions sometimes are done by a small group of people supported by the majority of people in general. Good examples is revolution in your country in 1917, when a group of armed guys captured the parliament and declared a new order. Or in Chili, where a few hundred armed men shot off the guards, closed off the building and forced the gov officials to proclaim him as a leader. In both cases, the "coup", as you say, was executed by less than 0.001% of population, but was supported by much more - and that's what let those dictators stay in charge later. Coups cannot be done despite the opinion of the majority - such a government won't be accepted by people and will be forced to give up all the power. Have you seen what happened to Muslim crazies in Egypt when they decided to go against the people who wanted a nice peaceful country after throwing away corrupt Mubarak and got new Iran being built?


Have you done the survey? What facts lead you to believe that "majority" wanted to keep Yanukovich in place? From what I've heard, Yanukovich was not a particularly popular president.

Perhaps it'll make you happier to know that I hate the events of 1917 as much as what happended in UA. Or even more. Only accidentaly those events did surve well for us later on

[May90]

Perhaps it'll make you happier to know that I hate the events of 1917 as much as what happended in UA. Or even more. Only accidentaly those events did surve well for us later on

You know, it is kind of common and accepted by the rest of the world: if the current government is bad, it should go away, and if it doesn't go away, it should be forced to do so. You Russian guys should know it better than anyone else: you've had, what, 3 revolutions in the latest 100 years?

[Elim Garak]

You know, it is kind of common and accepted by the rest of the world: if the current government is bad, it should go away, and if it doesn't go away, it should be forced to do so. You Russian guys should know it better than anyone else: you've had, what, 3 revolutions in the latest 100 years?

But government was not bad in 1917. It was even supported by West during the civil war. There was even intervention.

[May90]

But government was not bad in 1917. It was even supported by West during the civil war. There was even intervention.

It doesn't matter whether it was bad objectively. It was bad in the eyes of people. So they took it down.

[Elim Garak]

It doesn't matter whether it was bad objectively. It was bad in the eyes of people. So they took it down.

No it wasn't bad in the eyes of people. It was bad in the eyes of a small party of people.

[May90]

No it wasn't bad in the eyes of people. It was bad in the eyes of a small party of people.

Small party of people cannot decide how big party of people is going to leave, unless they allow them to. Which is basically the same as supporting them. Which is basically the same as supporting their ideas and statement. Which is supporting their statement that the previous government was bad.

If Ukrainians supported Yanukovich and didn't support current government, they would cast them out right away. Since they don't seem to do it and since Maidan doesn't seem to fill with people again, that means that people, at least, do not object against the current government. And you are not the one to decide whether their current government is lawful or not. Unless you are Ukrainian. But even if you are, you can only vote, you cannot tell for the entire nation which government they are to have. They said their word and they got what they wanted, whether you like it or not.

[Elim Garak]

Small party of people cannot decide how big party of people is going to leave, unless they allow them to. Which is basically the same as supporting them.

No. Majority of people didn't care about politics and were fucked up by both parties Whites and Reds. It's just so happened Reds won.

[May90]

No. Majority of people didn't care about politics and were fucked up by both parties Whites and Reds. It's just so happened Reds won.

By not caring about politics they give permission to whatever government wins to do what they want. If people really are against the current government, then they should either do something, or accept that whatever happens is under their responsibility.

[Elim Garak]

By not caring about politics they give permission to whatever government wins to do what they want. If people really are against the current government, then they should either do something, or accept that whatever happens is under their responsibility.

I don't remember any revolution that involved the majority of people. It is normal. People do not care about such high level abstractions as politics. Only politically active ones do and they are always a minority.

[SocialJusticeWarrior]

Regrettably the culturally imperialist West has little to offer our future client state of Ukraine, what value is Miley Cyrus, tattoos, gangsta-rap, neo-liberal economics, trans-sexualism, color revolutions, and demographic decline to a country like theirs? I mean yeah, they could like those things given time, but we don't have time. The US has become the Weimar Republic with aircraft carriers and a surfeit of insufferable arrogance.

[Reeve]

Regrettably the culturally imperialist West has little to offer our future client state of Ukraine, what value is Miley Cyrus, tattoos, gangsta-rap, neo-liberal economics, trans-sexualism, color revolutions, and demographic decline to a country like theirs? I mean yeah, they could like those things given time, but we don't have time. The US has become the Weimar Republic with aircraft carriers and a surfeit of insufferable arrogance.

The Ukraine seems to be a big fan of color revolutions. Seriously though, stop Chicken Littling the West. We're doing just fine.

[May90]

Regrettably the culturally imperialist West has little to offer our future client state of Ukraine, what value is Miley Cyrus, tattoos, gangsta-rap, neo-liberal economics, trans-sexualism, color revolutions, and demographic decline to a country like theirs? I mean yeah, they could like those things given time, but we don't have time. The US has become the Weimar Republic with aircraft carriers and a surfeit of insufferable arrogance.

You are one strange dude...

[FAILoZOFF]

All these democratic discussion shenenigans...
...where is my popcorn?

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Regrettably the culturally imperialist West has little to offer our future client state of Ukraine, what value is Miley Cyrus, tattoos, gangsta-rap, neo-liberal economics, trans-sexualism, color revolutions, and demographic decline to a country like theirs? I mean yeah, they could like those things given time, but we don't have time. The US has become the Weimar Republic with aircraft carriers and a surfeit of insufferable arrogance.

i have no idea what kind of drugs you take, but it must be something heavy to connect current "west" with neo-liberalism lol
west is filled with your... social justice ;]

[Felya]

Regrettably the culturally imperialist West has little to offer our future client state of Ukraine, what value is Miley Cyrus, tattoos, gangsta-rap, neo-liberal economics, trans-sexualism, color revolutions, and demographic decline to a country like theirs? I mean yeah, they could like those things given time, but we don't have time. The US has become the Weimar Republic with aircraft carriers and a surfeit of insufferable arrogance.

Gangster rap? Yeah, we also listen to guns and roses and I'm using aol on a 56k dial up...