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  1. #1

    The future of LFR, ala carte insta 90

    Blizzard:

    I’m not going to sit here and QQ about the level 90 boost, you are a business, you need to profit to survive to keep the game that we love up and around. However, the way you have implemented this is crap.

    Yes, I am a raider, in heroic progression, I also however have many alts that I like to go in Flex and LFR with. The free level 90 boost has destroyed LFR even more then it already was broken. I do understand that many people have chosen to take advantage of the boost, as they should. But allowing them access to gear so fast, that has allowed them to basically skip any tutorial, and que right into LFR’s, and have friends carry them in Flex.

    This, is accompanied by a growing trend that I have seen in LFR now, people just don’t care. “casual” players now expect there to be a 560+ ilevel DPS, heals, and tank to be in the LFR. As such, many of them simply AFK, don’t care, or auto attack the entire time, doing nothing to contribute to the actual progression of the raid. Blizzards idea behind the LFR was to allow people “who normally would not be able to see end game raiding content the ability to see, and play it” - -I agree, and think that’s great! However, people have abused this, and they now think that LFR is the place to learn, be informed, and go in uneducated, illprepared, and expect other people to carry. This is a growing trend, and a growing problem. I know, and do not expect people to be as geared as my main is, but when disc priest in 530 ilevels are number 5 on DPS charts, when DPS don’t know to click the orb on horridon, When they stand in green goo on Ji-Kun, there is a problem of laziness, and blizzard is just being ok with this. Please fix this. I know you plan on making proving grounds a req for heroics in WoD, - - great idea - - but you shold of tested it out with the 90 boost program. Too many 90’s in Timeless gear, or the 483 purchased gear in these LFR’s no idea how to play a class, any of their spells, just go around the island, loot chest, ding 496 ilevel, and que in SoO, or ToT. There needs to be a failsafe, or a way to make sure that before you can do LFR and flex, you know enough of your class to not be a detriment. Yes, I know what you all will say, and argue, leveling the old fashioned way doesn’t make someone good - - and you are right it doesn’t, but you are still suppose to learn at that time, you are slowly given spels to learn, and progress through that system, instead of doing a debit transaction, insta 90, and insta every spell. The original way it was suppose to work, designed so that you were suppose to slowly learn and grow in that class.
    And please, this is constructive criticism, not being a elitist, not saying don’t buy a 90, just saying please, read your class, know the fights before you come into a Flex, or a LFR. It takes 3-6 mins to watch a fight on you tube, instead of not knowing what to do, being explained, and then wiping. Causing a normal 7 min boss fight to turn into 30 mins, because a tank, or healer has no idea what to do. And also: yes. This does effect me, and you. I have seen needless arguments that purchasing a 90 doesn’t effect my gameplay, but it does. I have no issues carrying some heals, or DPS. But when Im doing 35% of the healing on a boss fight there is a issue. When the tank dies and a ret paladin can pop RF and tank better, there is a issue. Please Blizzard, implement a way that people who purchase a 90 have a tutorial, or something that they have to go through to earn the gear to que up in current content. Otherwise, it will just make people who want to help not want to do LFR. Causing it to fail as a design. Making it so that any decent player has no desire to do LFR, to help teach, give advice. making it a useful waste of your own resources that could be spent elsewhere.

  2. #2
    Just a quick point, standing in the green goo is actually a good thing on Jikun, as long as you don't kill yourself in it - since it gives more floor space for people to spread out. When I've done Jikun on LFR, I'll regularly clear several puddles so that people are less likely to all stand on each other and one shot their neighbors with caw.

    Also, pointing out your healing done in lfr (especially as disc) is a fairly poor metric of determining how good the other healers. Pre 90 boost, there were plenty of times that my 520 priest in shadow reforges would do around 50%+ of overall healing in ToT when I was running it for legendary items. Its not hard, especially as an absorb healer to suppress the other healers.

    The other thing is that people with bad weapons/trinkets are going to do quite a bit less dps than those with better trinkets/weapons at the same item level. I believe the boost chars start off with 450 weapon/trinkets - so their output is a little gimped unless they take the time to run heroics for honor to get the weapon. (and then buy a trinket with JP) While there are plenty of bad players that don't take the time to learn their class - people need to be somewhat realistic in their expectations and not expect that every fresh boost is going to be doing 200k+ the moment they step into lfr.

  3. #3
    yeeeah im never queing LFR again after last week. i was find being 15% of the dps/hps, but when im pushing 35% thats crossing the line.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Quickie View Post
    snip
    Blizzard will most likely never see this, so you might want to send this to them directly.

    I agree though that the 90 boost has been handled badly. They should really of made it so you are forced to do Proving Grounds Silver before you can enter LFR (which is what they are doing in WoD anyway). If people complain then it's their own fault for not learning the class they have chosen to play, if they are given better optimised gear then there really is no excuses. Learn how to play or GTFO

  5. #5
    Yea yea, LFR sucks, we know.

    Don't do it.

  6. #6
    do you really think that "class knowledge" is the main reason behind the lfr problems?

    Even my roommate is one of the "I don't care about lfr = auto attack all the way = free loot yey" kinda guy

    Also , if you know how to play wow in general , you don't need to level a character from 1 to 90 to learn how to raid with it.

    The numbers are so low in lfr , you can dish out half of the rotation needed for dps and still can defeat a boss easily.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ranaas View Post
    do you really think that "class knowledge" is the main reason behind the lfr problems?

    Even my roommate is one of the "I don't care about lfr = auto attack all the way = free loot yey" kinda guy

    Also , if you know how to play wow in general , you don't need to level a character from 1 to 90 to learn how to raid with it.

    The numbers are so low in lfr , you can dish out half of the rotation needed for dps and still can defeat a boss easily.
    This too. Most of the low numbers in LFR are people auto attacking, AFK'ing, mashing a couple buttons while watching a movie on another monitor. Very very few of them are legitimately trying but just being poor players.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    Blizzard will most likely never see this, so you might want to send this to them directly.

    I agree though that the 90 boost has been handled badly. They should really of made it so you are forced to do Proving Grounds Silver before you can enter LFR (which is what they are doing in WoD anyway). If people complain then it's their own fault for not learning the class they have chosen to play, if they are given better optimised gear then there really is no excuses. Learn how to play or GTFO
    the lvl 90 thing is only initial shock. when WoD goes live, everybody will lvl to 100, but the service will still remain buying a lvl 90. people will then have to level those additional 10 lvls just as the rest of the community does. whether they use those 10 lvls to learn anything or not is a different story, but dont think once WoD releases that the service bumps up to lvl 100 also. it was a smart idea to release this service now, after SoO is very much done by a majority of the players. we get all this crud out of our system, and wont see this big influx so readily in the future. when WoD goes live people will play their mains mostly. there will be some players using the lvl 90 service but not to the extent that we saw last week.

    dont get me wrong, many people will use this service, just that it wont happen all at one time since people tend to lvl at different paces. people with mains will focus them first, and it will be a smaller group of people who change mains to help their guilds, these people already have skill enough to learn their new 90 class in 10 lvls.
    Last edited by Sinndra; 2014-03-18 at 07:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I do realize that this is an internet forum full of morons, however in real life, no one questions me, people look to me for the answer, look up to me, trust me. To have dipshits on a video game forum question me, is insulting.

  9. #9
    It's impact on current content a problem; but it's one blizzard is clearly willing to accept. They implemented the 90 boosts this early as a way of tiding people over and convincing them to preorder an expansion that's still 6 months out (an exceedingly shrewd business move, just like the 1-year subscription was when diablo 3 was coming out. I expect to see more 'perks' for preordering in the near future as well, like beta access for WOD or heroes of the storm, or other things), and the result is lots of people who are worse at their class than usual in LFR. It's annoying to be sure, but in the scheme of things it's a relatively short-term problem that isn't changing things THAT much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinndra View Post
    the lvl 90 thing is only initial shock. when WoD goes live, everybody will lvl to 100, but the service will still remain buying a lvl 90. people will then have to level those additional 10 lvls just as the rest of the community does. whether they use those 10 lvls to learn anything or not is a different story, but dont think once WoD releases that the service bumps up to lvl 100 also. it was a smart idea to release this service now, after SoO is very much done by a majority of the players. we get all this crud out of our system, and wont see this big influx so readily in the future. when WoD goes live people will play their mains mostly. there will be some players using the lvl 90 service but not to the extent that we saw last week.

    dont get me wrong, many people will use this service, just that it wont happen all at one time since people tend to lvl at different paces. people with mains will focus them first, and it will be a smaller group of people who change mains to help their guilds, these people already have skill enough to learn their new 90 class in 10 lvls.
    Pretty much this; it won't have a big impact going forward. In WOD you'll still have to gain 10 levels, complete the silver proving grounds achievement (and blizzard has said they intend to iterate on proving grounds some more), and gear up to the LFR ilvl. People will still be terrible, of course, but it won't be because of the 90 boosts.
    Last edited by Thursley; 2014-03-18 at 07:49 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariluz View Post
    Just a quick point, standing in the green goo is actually a good thing on Jikun, as long as you don't kill yourself in it - since it gives more floor space for people to spread out. When I've done Jikun on LFR, I'll regularly clear several puddles so that people are less likely to all stand on each other and one shot their neighbors with caw.

    Also, pointing out your healing done in lfr (especially as disc) is a fairly poor metric of determining how good the other healers. Pre 90 boost, there were plenty of times that my 520 priest in shadow reforges would do around 50%+ of overall healing in ToT when I was running it for legendary items. Its not hard, especially as an absorb healer to suppress the other healers.

    The other thing is that people with bad weapons/trinkets are going to do quite a bit less dps than those with better trinkets/weapons at the same item level. I believe the boost chars start off with 450 weapon/trinkets - so their output is a little gimped unless they take the time to run heroics for honor to get the weapon. (and then buy a trinket with JP) While there are plenty of bad players that don't take the time to learn their class - people need to be somewhat realistic in their expectations and not expect that every fresh boost is going to be doing 200k+ the moment they step into lfr.
    My main this tier is not a disc priest. That is the badly geared alt I play in LFR with. I.E su 520 non Legendary geared Disc priest. Also the boost ins all gear @483
    not expecting 200K DPS, but id like to see more then the 30-40 I am in SoO atm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranaas View Post
    do you really think that "class knowledge" is the main reason behind the lfr problems?

    Even my roommate is one of the "I don't care about lfr = auto attack all the way = free loot yey" kinda guy

    Also , if you know how to play wow in general , you don't need to level a character from 1 to 90 to learn how to raid with it.

    The numbers are so low in lfr , you can dish out half of the rotation needed for dps and still can defeat a boss easily.
    And yet, people still wipe and stack determination. Your roommate prolly has chosen not to care, because its hard to be the only one who cares.

  11. #11
    total utter overreaction - theo nly reason lfr is kinda bad atm is cause of how many pre purchased WoD atm and how many fresh 90 are out there. in most cases its alts of really good players with bad havist of afk alt tab in lfr and when 15 people do it simultaniusly instead usual 5 then effect are like this - in few weeks eveyrthing will be back to "normal".

    my advice instead panic just put the new 90 on shelf for few weeks and lv up another alts - or do what u should o in first place flex with ur guild solving shitton of problems and it not liek u need to have cloak asap on all posible 90 :/

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariluz View Post
    The other thing is that people with bad weapons/trinkets are going to do quite a bit less dps than those with better trinkets/weapons at the same item level. I believe the boost chars start off with 450 weapon/trinkets - so their output is a little gimped unless they take the time to run heroics for honor to get the weapon. (and then buy a trinket with JP) While there are plenty of bad players that don't take the time to learn their class - people need to be somewhat realistic in their expectations and not expect that every fresh boost is going to be doing 200k+ the moment they step into lfr.
    The boosted gear is 483, but it's poorly optimized stat wise, which means that you'll need to a bit of work to reach hit/expertise caps at least. And when people don't do that on boosted 90s, that yields low DPS. How much of it is due to the player not knowing how to play the class depends on player to player.

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  13. #13
    What's terrible about this is that it's somehow blizzard's fault, and yet all the people in the LFR who aren't holding these afk-monkeys accountable by booting them are innocent. Players have the tools to fix this. They continuously choose not to, yet ask for more.

  14. #14
    Warchief sizzlinsauce's Avatar
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    It's been a week since pre order 90's and my alt is already 535 Ilevel i dont have to go into LFR anymore, thank god.

  15. #15
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    Come WoD it won't matter much.
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  16. #16
    Are your views that unique that you need your own thread to repeat whats been said in others? (Answer: No)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Are your views that unique that you need your own thread to repeat whats been said in others? (Answer: No)
    do i like people that answer their own questions? no
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  18. #18
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    90% of wow players suck at their main class. I don't know why you people expected them to be any better at a fresh 90.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    do i like people that answer their own questions? no
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  20. #20
    Just afk for the time being to keep your sanity. There is no other way to handle that crap.
    I guess wod will significantly reduce the difficulty so you finally can do all encounters with just a right click and maybe your pet on assist. Still think the whole situation could have been easily avoided by giving incentive and reason to not totally suck or afk but well.

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