1. #1

    Converting to 25H from 10H, need help

    Greetings all,

    With the upcoming changes to raiding - mythic and all - my guild (which is 11/14H 10 man) is going to be switching to 25 man heroic starting next week. As the GM and RL, I have been preparing and researching for this change for quite some time, but I would like some clarification on certain aspects of 25 man heroic. Any and all help, any suggestions, would be greatly appreciated.

    Immerseus :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 3 healers, and stay on the large quadrant in the back of the room when the boss is up. We of course spread out during the add phase to get full coverage. I have to warn people to watch their stacks sometimes, especially our DPS happy mage.
    25 man heroic: How many healers does everyone suggest? The number I seem to hear most is five. How many quadrants does your raid use for 25 man? As for swelling corruption, since the boss only has 50 stacks (just like on 10 man), yet there are so many more people in 25, is it possible for DPS to ignore the mechanic altogether?


    Fallen Protectors :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 3 healers and unlike a lot of guilds, our dps order is Sun, then Rook, then He.
    25 man heroic: How many healers do you suggest? On 10 man, during Sun's desperate measures phase, I tank Rook outside the "bubble" on top of one of the outside adds and usually pop a major CD. Is this advisable on 25 heroic, or should I try to stay in the center with everyone else? I suppose the preferred dps order would be Rook, He, Sun?


    Norushen :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 2 healers. We send DPS "downstairs" one at a time. At the same time, we send a tank, healer, healer, then the second tank. Because we out gear it so much, the final DPS (usually our off-spec'd resto druid) just stays out the entire fight and never gets purified. Generally speaking only the tanks and healers soak the orbs.
    25 man heroic: Amount of healers? On some forum posts I have read, they are suggesting 3 tanks for this fight to help with add control. Others suggest a dedicated add killing team that never gets purified. What is optimal? I am leaning toward sending 4 dps per round and using 3 tanks. DPS will need to soak orbs as well, correct?

    Sha of Pride :

    10 man heroic: One of our messier fights each week, for whatever reason. We use 2 tanks and 2 healers. I am constantly reminding people to soak void zones. We spread out around the boss and use bloodlust at 30%.
    25 man heroic: 5 healers? 6? I know I will have to ride the raid even more about soaking the void zones on 25. Is it recommended to use bloodlust at the start of the encounter since there are so many more raid cooldowns available in 25 for the burn phase? How many people get teleported to the "Pac Man" realm at a time? Is still one like in 10 man, or is it more? Can healers ignore the Titan buff for when it comes to dispels?


    Galakras :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 2 healers. For towers, we send a tank, healer and 2 DPS. 2 DPS handle the demolitionist add. For the burn, we have a melee stack point and a ranged/healer stack point. Whomever gets the debuff on them runs straight back behind the ranged group. They rotate out at 4 stacks.
    25 man heroic: Again, how many healers? How many do you send on the tower team? 1 tank, 2 healers, 5 DPS? 6? How many handle the demolitionist, and does it need a healer to be part of the group? I imagine the minibosses in the tower hit incredibly hard in 25. Also, we have a tank in 10 man grab one of the cannons and shoot the boss down. Is this suggested for 25 man? Lastly, is our stacking method - melee and ranged/healers - viable for 25?


    Iron Juggernaut :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 3 healers. Our warrior tank gets all three of his bombs, and I (prot paladin) get two of the three, with our kitty druid momentarily shifting to bear and soaking the third each round, then switching back to kitty. For siege phase, we use the knockback tactic - get knocked back 80 yards and hide there until the boss re-enters phase 1.
    25 man heroic: I am thinking 6 healers? There are still three bombs per round, yes? I imagine the majority of raid cooldowns will need to be used for the boss' knockback and siege phase? I plan on players with immunities or massive damage reductions (i.e. dispersion) soaking bombs when/if needed.


    Dark Shamans:

    10 man heroic: We use 3 tanks and 3 healers. Our kitty druid goes bear and tanks the downstairs with a disc priest and all of the ranged DPS. I go up to the top of the hill with our prot warrior, resto druid, resto shaman and unholy DK. Damage is much higher up top; our disc priest mostly does atonement downstairs. We only have people die downstairs when they out-range him.

    25 man heroic: 3 tanks, of course. I have read tactics with 2 healers downstairs, and 4 at the top of the hill. Do you recommend this as well? All of the melee DPS to the top of the hill? Our healer comp for 25 man will be two disc, one shaman, two druid, one paladin... what would be the ideal healer to be downstairs with the first disc? There will be five iron prisons going out at a time, correct?


    General Nazgrim :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 2 healers. Our shadow priest seems to favor focusing the assassin down first but when he is not in, our elemental shaman prefers the shaman to be the priority (each call out the priority on Mumble differently). We have a hunter kite and concussive/scatter the ironblade, our kitty druid locks down the fire mage and our unholy DK "tanks" the shaman healer. We lust anywhere from 10-25% and ignore the adds with the off tank (whomever it is) running out and trying to do whatever he can with the remaining adds.

    25 man heroic: This is another fight where I've read that a third tank is viable. Is this true? The third tank helps control/stun adds. What is the suggested priority order for the adds? Is this a 5 or 6 healer fight? I imagine on 25 you want to lust at 10-12%? I also read that tanks will need external cooldowns during berserker stance. If we go three tanks, which are the best ones to tank the boss? Our three "main" tanks will be paladin, warrior and death knight.


    Malkorok :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 2 healers. I (prot paladin) solo soak the blood rage with DPS cloak and DPS meta with no problem whatsoever. After the first breath, when I am not tanking, I pop bubble + rocket boots to help clear orbs. During blood rage our prot warrior pops bubbles and others (hunters with deterrence, shadow priest with dispersion, etc) do the same.

    25 man heroic: This is the one fight in 25 man that I am unsure about. 2 tanks and 6 healers I suppose? Is it possible to just stack for blood rage and heal through the damage? Or is it recommended to solo soak the blood rage as a tank with massive external CDs? Is there another strategy that you recommend? Melee DPS will have to help the tanks by taunting the adds to us? Oh, and yes, I will not try to cheese the DPS meters with the DPS cloak and meta in 25 man. I will wear both tank ones.


    Spoils of Pandaria :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 2 healers. Not much to this fight really.

    25 man heroic: Many posts I have read on the forums say this fight can only be 4 healed, but I read one that says their guild uses 5 healers, with the 5th starting on the mantid side then switching over to the other mantid side. Is this recommended? I imagine raid CDs will need to be used for each of the massive bosses' AOE? How many people are dedicated to sparks? In 10 man we generally have one DPS (or the healer with the buff) assigned to them.


    Thok the Bloodthirsty :

    10 man heroic: We use 1 tank and 3 healers. We go Poison, then Frost, then Fire. We start the fight and go 22 stacks, then 12, then 5 and kill him during the final kite. We do not have a warlock so we cannot use teleportation portals and thus, I have found it best to open the jail cells as quickly as possible.

    25 man heroic: 2 tanks and 7-8 healers is what I see as the recommendation. Poison, Frost, Fire? Oh, and we will have warlocks in 25. I also read you want to push Thok as close to 29 stacks, without hitting 30, as you can each phase. I am also curious as to the CD usage during each stack. In 10 man this is what we use:

    4 - Spirit Shell
    6 - Ironbark tank + Tree of Life
    7 - Vampiric Embrace
    10 - BOP Resto Shaman + Ascendance
    12 - Pain Suppression on tank
    14 - Devotion Aura + Tranquility
    17 - Tank's Light's Hammer on raid + Spirit Link Totem
    20 - Stack, Barrier on tank, phase out.

    (Second BOP used on elemental shaman for bats in phase 2). It seems to work fine for us. I imagine that would work as a rough outline, but another CD (or two) would need to be added on top for 25 man?

    We have yet to kill Siegecrafter Blackfuse on heroic, so I am not worried about the tactics for him or the Paragons quite yet (the guild we are absorbing is 9/14H 10 man). I do have a few questions for 25 normal Garrosh, however.

    3 tanks, the third being used to pick up and handle adds during the burn phase? Or is two perfectly fine? Stacking in the opening phase on top of desecrated weapons is viable or not?

    I realize this is a long post with lots of questions, but any help or tips/tricks/suggestions from those who have done 25 heroic would be greatly appreciated.
    Thank you for your time!

    -Amabarix
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...barix/advanced

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Amabarix View Post
    Greetings all,

    With the upcoming changes to raiding - mythic and all - my guild (which is 11/14H 10 man) is going to be switching to 25 man heroic starting next week. As the GM and RL, I have been preparing and researching for this change for quite some time, but I would like some clarification on certain aspects of 25 man heroic. Any and all help, any suggestions, would be greatly appreciated.

    Immerseus :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 3 healers, and stay on the large quadrant in the back of the room when the boss is up. We of course spread out during the add phase to get full coverage. I have to warn people to watch their stacks sometimes, especially our DPS happy mage.
    25 man heroic: How many healers does everyone suggest? The number I seem to hear most is five. How many quadrants does your raid use for 25 man? As for swelling corruption, since the boss only has 50 stacks (just like on 10 man), yet there are so many more people in 25, is it possible for DPS to ignore the mechanic altogether?
    5 seems fine, one quadrant also fine, and as far as the debuff... never seemed like it was a thing, forgot about it till you mentioned.


    Fallen Protectors :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 3 healers and unlike a lot of guilds, our dps order is Sun, then Rook, then He.
    25 man heroic: How many healers do you suggest? On 10 man, during Sun's desperate measures phase, I tank Rook outside the "bubble" on top of one of the outside adds and usually pop a major CD. Is this advisable on 25 heroic, or should I try to stay in the center with everyone else? I suppose the preferred dps order would be Rook, He, Sun?
    We dps them all evenly to push them all at the same time. Everyone in the bubble with the conal mob faced outside. Set up an interrupt rotation for the gloom (three groups) and designate people to take the Anger just like normal. Everyone else AoE off the Anger.


    Norushen :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 2 healers. We send DPS "downstairs" one at a time. At the same time, we send a tank, healer, healer, then the second tank. Because we out gear it so much, the final DPS (usually our off-spec'd resto druid) just stays out the entire fight and never gets purified. Generally speaking only the tanks and healers soak the orbs.
    25 man heroic: Amount of healers? On some forum posts I have read, they are suggesting 3 tanks for this fight to help with add control. Others suggest a dedicated add killing team that never gets purified. What is optimal? I am leaning toward sending 4 dps per round and using 3 tanks. DPS will need to soak orbs as well, correct?
    Two tanks, first one getting purified. 5 heals with a rotation of two getting purified. Send 5-6 groups of 3 dps down at a time. Tanks and heals eat orbs, dps never does unless its in a pinch to limit the number of small adds. Its likely the sixth group doesn't get to go down as the boss will be sub 50% by this point.

    Sha of Pride :

    10 man heroic: One of our messier fights each week, for whatever reason. We use 2 tanks and 2 healers. I am constantly reminding people to soak void zones. We spread out around the boss and use bloodlust at 30%.
    25 man heroic: 5 healers? 6? I know I will have to ride the raid even more about soaking the void zones on 25. Is it recommended to use bloodlust at the start of the encounter since there are so many more raid cooldowns available in 25 for the burn phase? How many people get teleported to the "Pac Man" realm at a time? Is still one like in 10 man, or is it more? Can healers ignore the Titan buff for when it comes to dispels?
    5 or 6 healers is fine. Yes you have to ride them about void zones. Lust at the start or sub 30%, your choice. Three people in pacman at a time so its highly recommended that the raid group stacks in the center briefly after the adds come out until after pacman starts. Its really all hands on deck for dispels, you can't just assign one or two to do it.


    Galakras :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 2 healers. For towers, we send a tank, healer and 2 DPS. 2 DPS handle the demolitionist add. For the burn, we have a melee stack point and a ranged/healer stack point. Whomever gets the debuff on them runs straight back behind the ranged group. They rotate out at 4 stacks.
    25 man heroic: Again, how many healers? How many do you send on the tower team? 1 tank, 2 healers, 5 DPS? 6? How many handle the demolitionist, and does it need a healer to be part of the group? I imagine the minibosses in the tower hit incredibly hard in 25. Also, we have a tank in 10 man grab one of the cannons and shoot the boss down. Is this suggested for 25 man? Lastly, is our stacking method - melee and ranged/healers - viable for 25?
    3 DPS handle demolitionist. 1 tank 5 dps 1 heal in tower. If everyone does their job and has passable dps lol@thetowerboss. Tank shooting the boss down is perfectly fine. Stacks are fine, honestly the debuff isn't even an issue anymore.


    Iron Juggernaut :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 3 healers. Our warrior tank gets all three of his bombs, and I (prot paladin) get two of the three, with our kitty druid momentarily shifting to bear and soaking the third each round, then switching back to kitty. For siege phase, we use the knockback tactic - get knocked back 80 yards and hide there until the boss re-enters phase 1.
    25 man heroic: I am thinking 6 healers? There are still three bombs per round, yes? I imagine the majority of raid cooldowns will need to be used for the boss' knockback and siege phase? I plan on players with immunities or massive damage reductions (i.e. dispersion) soaking bombs when/if needed.
    All sounds fine. Only note is lol DK bubbles for knockback.


    Dark Shamans:

    10 man heroic: We use 3 tanks and 3 healers. Our kitty druid goes bear and tanks the downstairs with a disc priest and all of the ranged DPS. I go up to the top of the hill with our prot warrior, resto druid, resto shaman and unholy DK. Damage is much higher up top; our disc priest mostly does atonement downstairs. We only have people die downstairs when they out-range him.

    25 man heroic: 3 tanks, of course. I have read tactics with 2 healers downstairs, and 4 at the top of the hill. Do you recommend this as well? All of the melee DPS to the top of the hill? Our healer comp for 25 man will be two disc, one shaman, two druid, one paladin... what would be the ideal healer to be downstairs with the first disc? There will be five iron prisons going out at a time, correct?
    For healers 3 up 3 down or 4 up 2 down is equally fine. There are still only 2 prisons out at a time so I can only assume they come out more often.


    General Nazgrim :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 2 healers. Our shadow priest seems to favor focusing the assassin down first but when he is not in, our elemental shaman prefers the shaman to be the priority (each call out the priority on Mumble differently). We have a hunter kite and concussive/scatter the ironblade, our kitty druid locks down the fire mage and our unholy DK "tanks" the shaman healer. We lust anywhere from 10-25% and ignore the adds with the off tank (whomever it is) running out and trying to do whatever he can with the remaining adds.

    25 man heroic: This is another fight where I've read that a third tank is viable. Is this true? The third tank helps control/stun adds. What is the suggested priority order for the adds? Is this a 5 or 6 healer fight? I imagine on 25 you want to lust at 10-12%? I also read that tanks will need external cooldowns during berserker stance. If we go three tanks, which are the best ones to tank the boss? Our three "main" tanks will be paladin, warrior and death knight.
    We three tank yes. Lust on pull. He have rainbow tanks so honestly there's not a best-best. Prefer shaman priority as heals are bad news. You may also find it beneficial to have the range and heals stack up, only moving if targetted by assassin or sniper. This way when the heroic shockwave comes, you limit the amount of the room covered by the shockwave. Oh and tank him in the back where the adds spawn, not by the door.


    Malkorok :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 2 healers. I (prot paladin) solo soak the blood rage with DPS cloak and DPS meta with no problem whatsoever. After the first breath, when I am not tanking, I pop bubble + rocket boots to help clear orbs. During blood rage our prot warrior pops bubbles and others (hunters with deterrence, shadow priest with dispersion, etc) do the same.

    25 man heroic: This is the one fight in 25 man that I am unsure about. 2 tanks and 6 healers I suppose? Is it possible to just stack for blood rage and heal through the damage? Or is it recommended to solo soak the blood rage as a tank with massive external CDs? Is there another strategy that you recommend? Melee DPS will have to help the tanks by taunting the adds to us? Oh, and yes, I will not try to cheese the DPS meters with the DPS cloak and meta in 25 man. I will wear both tank ones.
    The only way that its remotely realistic (i.e. repeatable) to one tank Malkorok is with a Brewmaster, which you do not have. I recommend stacking for blood rage with 4 people out assigned to soak orbs from a quadrant with everyone else stacked. Rotate cooldowns and use stampeding roar from druids to clear the debuff (two per bloodrage). In this way you're only going to wipe if the energy pools don't get soaked for whatever reason.


    Spoils of Pandaria :

    10 man heroic: We use 2 tanks and 2 healers. Not much to this fight really.

    25 man heroic: Many posts I have read on the forums say this fight can only be 4 healed, but I read one that says their guild uses 5 healers, with the 5th starting on the mantid side then switching over to the other mantid side. Is this recommended? I imagine raid CDs will need to be used for each of the massive bosses' AOE? How many people are dedicated to sparks? In 10 man we generally have one DPS (or the healer with the buff) assigned to them.
    5 heals is fine but we actually do the opposite with a healer swapping between Mogu for the large boxes. Either is fine. Range on sparks. Tank big adds in the middle as much as possible to take advantage of cleave.


    Thok the Bloodthirsty :

    10 man heroic: We use 1 tank and 3 healers. We go Poison, then Frost, then Fire. We start the fight and go 22 stacks, then 12, then 5 and kill him during the final kite. We do not have a warlock so we cannot use teleportation portals and thus, I have found it best to open the jail cells as quickly as possible.

    25 man heroic: 2 tanks and 7-8 healers is what I see as the recommendation. Poison, Frost, Fire? Oh, and we will have warlocks in 25. I also read you want to push Thok as close to 29 stacks, without hitting 30, as you can each phase. I am also curious as to the CD usage during each stack. In 10 man this is what we use:

    4 - Spirit Shell
    6 - Ironbark tank + Tree of Life
    7 - Vampiric Embrace
    10 - BOP Resto Shaman + Ascendance
    12 - Pain Suppression on tank
    14 - Devotion Aura + Tranquility
    17 - Tank's Light's Hammer on raid + Spirit Link Totem
    20 - Stack, Barrier on tank, phase out.

    (Second BOP used on elemental shaman for bats in phase 2). It seems to work fine for us. I imagine that would work as a rough outline, but another CD (or two) would need to be added on top for 25 man?
    Its all dependent on your healers and dps spec cooldowns. Warriors and Paladins of all stripes are particularly useful here. You're going to want to start layering damage reduction and throughput cooldowns about every two roars starting at 6. Don't forget those rogue smoke bombs. Its also useful to coordinate where your raid will use healthstones and personal cooldowns if you are light on other raid cooldowns. If you're going to be light on cooldowns, shove most of them into the first phase one to get as close to 30 stacks as you can, then pick either poison or frost for about 5 stacks and the last 12 stacks as you're comfortable. As long as he is sub 15% before he transitions from fire to the last chase phase, you should be golden DPS-wise.

    We have yet to kill Siegecrafter Blackfuse on heroic, so I am not worried about the tactics for him or the Paragons quite yet (the guild we are absorbing is 9/14H 10 man). I do have a few questions for 25 normal Garrosh, however.

    3 tanks, the third being used to pick up and handle adds during the burn phase? Or is two perfectly fine? Stacking in the opening phase on top of desecrated weapons is viable or not?

    I realize this is a long post with lots of questions, but any help or tips/tricks/suggestions from those who have done 25 heroic would be greatly appreciated.
    Thank you for your time!

    -Amabarix
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...barix/advanced
    2 tanks is fine, stacking is fine.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Its all dependent on your healers and dps spec cooldowns. Warriors and Paladins of all stripes are particularly useful here. You're going to want to start layering damage reduction and throughput cooldowns about every two roars starting at 6. Don't forget those rogue smoke bombs. Its also useful to coordinate where your raid will use healthstones and personal cooldowns if you are light on other raid cooldowns. If you're going to be light on cooldowns, shove most of them into the first phase one to get as close to 30 stacks as you can, then pick either poison or frost for about 5 stacks and the last 12 stacks as you're comfortable. As long as he is sub 15% before he transitions from fire to the last chase phase, you should be golden DPS-wise.

    I suppose the one thing I left out of the Thok questions was the fact that I mentioned on 10 man heroic, I open the cages as quickly as possible. But in 25 man, I have seen some guilds go as high as 15 stacks (we go 7-8) before opening the cage. How many are recommended?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    The only way that its remotely realistic (i.e. repeatable) to one tank Malkorok is with a Brewmaster, which you do not have.
    We did it with a Warrior this week in one try. It's definitely possible with any tank as long as you have good externals available and your tank isn't a mongo.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Amabarix View Post
    I suppose the one thing I left out of the Thok questions was the fact that I mentioned on 10 man heroic, I open the cages as quickly as possible. But in 25 man, I have seen some guilds go as high as 15 stacks (we go 7-8) before opening the cage. How many are recommended?
    We do 7 kiters, 1 to get him centralized, then alternate down the hallway and to his spawn. We only do this for the first and third kite.

    Much of the reaon for this is

    A)dps is always nice, you generally won't even get to the fire phase
    B)healer cooldowns need this. Mostly devos, but you're gonna be utilizing 75% of your raid cooldowns every door

  6. #6
    You can solo soak Blood Rage with a warrior or paladin on 25. Just use 3-4 external cooldowns and their personals. See here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLNzMQfgFIQ our first kill, no problem.

    Warning: Don't try without Rook's overpowered trinket.

    On Fallen Protectors I think the easiest thing is to push Rook first, then push Sun and He at the same time so you don't have to deal with sha sear or poison puddles/garrote while doing the transitions.

    We 3 tank Norushen to make it easier with the large numbers of adds spawning.

    Sha of Pride has four prisons and 3 banishments. You'll need assignments for all four corners, but suggest collapsing for banishment. Lusting at 30% is highly advisable. Would just ignore the buff and dispel the dot as much as possible when the big aoe is coming. We six heal.

    We 8-healed Iron Juggernaut on progression and 7-heal it now. Easiest way is of course to get knock backed 200 yards and sit out of range during siege mode. It's still 3 bombs.

    Dark Shamans is 2 prisons still but they come out more often. We 5 heal and have 2 healers below and 3 healers above.

    Nazgrim we 2-tank but we also just mass death grip all the adds on top of him and cleave everything down, focus shamans first obviously. Lust at 10% ignoring the last wave.

    We 5 heal Spoils with a healer starting on Mogu and swapping to do Mogu again.

    Thok cooldowns really depend on your raid. We 8-healed on progression and it was pretty easy. We 7-heal it these days. Here's an example order that worked for us.

    Screech #

    3 - AG(1)

    6 - Personals+Healthstones

    7 - Demo Banner + Rallying Cry

    8 - HoP+Tranq

    10 - Smoke Bomb/AG(2)

    12 - Spirit Link+Healing Tide(1)

    14 - Hop+Tranq/AG(3)

    16 - Smoke Bomb/Healing Tide(2)

    17 - Devo Aura(1)/Healing Tide(3)

    19 - Devo Aura(2)+Hymn

    22 - Devo Aura(3)+Hymn

    24 - Healing Tide(4) Barrier Raid stacks
    We go to 29 stacks on the first phase 1, 9 stacks on the second one that has bats, 29 stacks on the third one and when we used to get a fire phase we just stacked up and moved as a group to end it as fast as possible and killed him during the kite.

    I believe we release around 11-12 stacks during the kite but I'd have to go look at a video to be sure.

    Edit: Yeah 11-12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCvKQ-os0F8 (hilariously bad first kill)
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2014-02-27 at 09:40 PM.

  7. #7
    We've solo'd Blood Rage with a Blood DK. Just like people have said, make sure you use lots of externals (PS, HoS, Life Cocoon, Ironbark, etc).

  8. #8
    I was 11/14H in a 10M all through early heroic progression (and also killed H Paragons on 10H later) then switched to a converted 25M where we went 14/14H in 3 weeks. I also run an alt hunter in a 11/14H 25M, so I'll go through the differences I encountered.

    For everything up to IJ we 5 heal and sometimes 4 heal, mainly because we have 5 main healers who are all really good and then 2 dps that can run OS heals, on farm you can easily get away with 4 healing many of the fights.

    Immerseus:
    2 tank, 5 heal, all stack in one quadrant, doesn't necessarily matter where. Unlike 10m, the stacking corruption mechanic can be ignored in 25M because the stacks on Immerseus are gone before you need to even worry about getting 4+ stacks on yourself. This fight is really a joke compared to 10M, adds just blow up since you'll probably be running multiple mages and warlocks.
    For transition, just set 4 groups of colors away from your stack point and the 5th group consists of the tanks who just stay where they are.

    Protectors:
    By far the easiest way to do this in 25M is Rook > Sun + He.
    Because of all your cooldowns and more healers in the tight little Sun phase, it's very easy to heal through Sun + He DM. Since you generally have more melee also you can pretty much have all your ranged dot up the ranged Sun adds, have everyone focus on the Mark, and things will pretty much die at the same time and not take much longer than just doing He by himself.

    You also get the added benefit of not having people accidentally stand in poison in Sun's area since it's much tighter with 25M, you don't have to deal with Garrote, and because you push Rook first and kill much faster cleaving Sun + He at the same time the corrupted brew is reset before this phase so it doesn't really hurt if you get hit by it. Overall it's so much easier in 25M.

    Norushen:
    I'm sure there are different ways to do this, 2 tanking is fine, and 5 healing like normal. We split up dps into 5 groups, send down 4 at a time (last group will have final 2). Use stuns on the big adds if needed. The DPS in the next group soaks the orbs from the previous group before they go down. Off tank can still go down whenever to help soak orbs as needed if some are missed or for after all the dps have gone down. Nothing really that tricky as long as people don't tunnel the boss and pick up orbs when they know they are going down next.

    Sha of Pride:
    This fight is really easy on 25M because people are pretty much forced to do mechanics and soak. This whole fight is a very simple cycle.
    1. Loose spread in Effo/Healing rain circle so not everyone is getting hit by the same rift, stack if you have gift.
    2. Come together right before adds spawn, get out from under them, AoE the shit out of them and get together.
    3. Right around when the adds die 3 Corrupted Fragments spawn and since we are awesome and grouped together they get cleaved down instantly
    4. Start moving to far prisons with 5 sec on DBM timer, max one melee should be in far groups and should get the closest button (for all 4 groups) with ranged/healers getting the two that are further from Sha.
    5. Now this is important, THIS IS WHERE YOU SOAK THE RIFTS BY YOUR COLOR. You have a few seconds from after prison until the big adds spawn to soak your rifts. If people do it correctly then you should clear out the rifts by your color every minute because this fight is on rails and holds your hand. Offtank in group 5 can get any stray rifts in the middle area by the back groups on cooldown during tank swaps, the other 3 in group 5 can get stray rifts by the starting area. For the back 2 groups especially, you should never soak early before the first prison. After that you clear everytime you go to your prison color. (Make sure you don't clear a rift with the dot on you, each group has a healer so they should be getting dispelled on cooldown if you do get one during prisons)
    6. Big Add spawns, 2 groups on right kill their big add, 2 groups on left kill their big add, simple. If for some reason there weren't enough rifts to soak by your color, there will probably be one up by the big adds so you can soak on the way there or back to stack point.
    7. Get back to stack point with loose spread, Cooldowns + Swelling Pride hits, get out of bursting, stand in your Projections if you have it, repeat <1-7>.
    8. Note: Depending on where you push Sha to 30% there may be a point at 30% where you need to run and soak rifts and break the cycle

    Pretty easy fight where the fight forces you to execute mechanics at proper times in 25M since unlike 10M you're forced to actually move to the far prisons and the way the fight is timed it lines up with when Weakened Resolve comes off cooldown, when you need to kill the big adds right after prisons and how they are positioned on the sides instead of the back, etc.

    Galakras:
    Not really different, we send up 1 tank, 1 healer, 5 dps, 3 Rdps on the gate dude usually mages.

    IJ:
    This is one we switch to 6 heals for, can also 7 heal and stay in in P2 although probably not recommended until you're comfortable, there's also a different stacking strat in P2 if you stay in. Same exact strat as 10M except easier to get mines if the tank can't get all 3.

    DS:
    Another way easier fight on 25M. We 5 heal, 2 down, 3 up. I've done both all melee at the top and everyone down below except the 2 tanks/3 heals. Since I play lock and hunter I don't really know which is better, but melee have preferred staying down in my raids and now both my raids just have all dps stay at the bottom including melee. Besides that the same as 10M. Doesn't really matter who goes with disc on bottom as long as disc is bottom, shaman or druid is fine. If you have 2 druids just put one with the disc since druids are super mobile healers anyways.

    Nazgrim:
    My 11/14H guild 3 tanks with a monk taking adds, my 14/14H 2 tanks. Shouldn't really matter since dps shouldn't be an issue. Besides that strat is the same vs 10 man.

    Malkorok:
    Both my guilds 2 tank, can use 5 or 6 healers depending on how good they are. Both of my guilds also solo tank the Blood Rage phase, both of them use a paladin and they pretty much never die, so yes it is very possible to solo tank this phase as a non-monk, just get an order for dr cooldowns on your tank from everybody. During BR all the ranged should be spread out, dpsing, and soaking orbs. You can easily soak orbs with no cooldowns just take like 3-4, wait until you are healed back up, repeat.

    Spoils:
    Can 5 or 6 heal, shouldn't really matter. Don't need to assign anyone to sparks, generally our ranged know to just switch and kill them and if healers have the mistweaver buff they can do them. Not sure what you did on 10M, but for 25M we pull both panda crates, our rogue/hunter opens the 2nd one and misdirects/tricks to tank, open a large when 2nd panda is like 25% health and open smalls during it to cleave onto them, do some mediums, then open the next big when 2 min cooldowns/trinkets are ready, then just finish the rest of the mediums you need. In total you do 2 big, all medium (6), 4 small.
    On the mogu side you lust for the first large, use 2nd pot for the 2nd large. Also have the whole raid stack behind the large mogu in the middle and you can just aoe/cleave on all the adds/sparks and destroy them.

    Thok:
    We actually 5 healed this, but my 11/14 guild 7 heals, so really depends on how good your healers are. I don't know the cooldown rotation of our raid since the raid leader calls all that, but we come together at 26 stacks under spirit shell and push @27-29 stacks on phase 1, push early when bats die in p2 (around 8-10 stacks), all cooldowns are up in p3 so back to the 27-29 stacks, then we usually don't even get to the fire door. If you do you probably want to all stack on one person and move with him out of the fire then push early and finish him off during kite phase.
    Door order is poison -> frost -> fire, we open at 10 stacks which is when thok is passing based on the triangle kiting pattern. (i.e. raid is in middle, first 3 fixates basically create a triangle around the open room with everyone standing in the middle and ranged dpsing thok, 4th fixate is down the hall using warlock gateways and raid needs to move to the side where they are stacking for next phase and stay there, 5th fixate comes back up the hall and end at the end of the room).

    Blackfuse is really fun on 25M and is a really easy cycle once you get the hang of it. Alot of the failure is going to be on the belt. Paragons is probably the only one that is easier on 10M.

    Garrosh normal is gonna be a joke for a 11/14H guild, but for heroic you do 3 tank and have the 3rd tank kite the adds, which is ideally going to be a monk. Our monk healer switches to tank for this and has terrible gear and doesn't know how to tank, but the 3rd tank really shouldn't be getting hit by the adds anyways, they just need to be good at kiting. Call out for Warlock Shadowfury stuns when needed to stall the adds.

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by Strifey; 2014-02-27 at 10:21 PM.

  9. #9
    Galakras on 25H is super easy, as well as hilarious, if you do the strat where you send 24 people into the towers AS SOON AS the tower doors opens. Race to the top, kill the miniboss/adds, float down. The tank on the bottom should be able to handle the poison dude/adds by himself for the 30s it takes to clear the tower. Do the same for the second tower, easypeasy.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dankestbuds View Post
    Galakras on 25H is super easy, as well as hilarious, if you do the strat where you send 24 people into the towers AS SOON AS the tower doors opens. Race to the top, kill the miniboss/adds, float down. The tank on the bottom should be able to handle the poison dude/adds by himself for the 30s it takes to clear the tower. Do the same for the second tower, easypeasy.
    What. That sounds awesome! Anyone have a video of this strat?

  11. #11
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    25 is a joke compared to 10. You'll have no problem doing it.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dankestbuds View Post
    Galakras on 25H is super easy, as well as hilarious, if you do the strat where you send 24 people into the towers AS SOON AS the tower doors opens. Race to the top, kill the miniboss/adds, float down. The tank on the bottom should be able to handle the poison dude/adds by himself for the 30s it takes to clear the tower. Do the same for the second tower, easypeasy.
    Why would you need to send all the healers to the top?

  13. #13
    We made the conversion over Christmas when we were 10/14H on 10m. For each boss we basically do the following:

    Immerseus - we have four groups spread around the boss, two tank it, one healer assigned to each of the four groups. 5 heal the fight, have a holy paladin standing near the tanks with righteous fury on. Everyone nukes through the stacks on the boss (they're trivial in 25m, but serious in 10m), and after the first taunt swap the tank picks up all the adds running towards the holy paladin, and the closest ranged group nukes through the adds while the split occurs. Rinse/Repeat.

    Protectors is no different, you simply don't need to pass the Mark of Anguish around as many people. We have our locks take it, and if by chance it needs four people we pass it to our rogues as well.

    Sha - like Immerseus, assign a group to each Prison, have raid stack behind boss otherwise, with a DK assigned to grip each add in from the side. Rift soaking is done at each Prison assigned area.

    Galakras - a joke, no different from 10m.

    Iron Jugg - if your healers are very strong/well geared you can actually stay near the boss, simply heal through unavoidable damage and get to keep nuking the boss.

    Dark Shamans - same as 10m, but don't send any DPS with Earthbreaker. Tank on Wavebinder just needs to be competent enough to spawn the adds away from the melee.

    Nazgrim the DPS requirement is a bit higher, but otherwise no different.

    Malkorok there's far less bubbles on the platform, but the additional challenge of 7+ ranged actually being coordinated enough to soak pools.

    Spoils is a complete joke - 2 healers each side, if no Mistweaver buff just have your ranged kill sparks.

    Thok is fairly easy - we assign CDs to every second stack from 6 onward, chain 3 devos through stacks 12-18, BoP tranqs/VEs/ or ascendance from Resto Shams, use personals at 26, stack after that and it goes over at either 28 or 29. We don't bother with cooldowns on poison cage, simply force frenzy when the bats spawn, nuke those, go back to frost, repeat P1, and it dies in the kite phase before fire.

    Siege your biggest challenge will be getting 4-5 people to all go error free on the belts. This week we had three people die on the belt and still managed to retrieve a kill, but competent hunters or windwalkers on that will be your best friend.

    Paragons isn't tremendously hard on heroic once you kill the first 3/4

    Garrosh on normal can be solo tanked if you have a competent tank and don't get Red Crane - although we got Red Crane last week and our frost DK managed to man-mode it, so it's possible either way. Whirling Corruption allows tank stacks to fall off and you can basically LFR strat it once you have enough gear (which at 10/14H you should do)

  14. #14
    Take as many healers as you can on immers since dps in the normal phase doesn't really reduce the length of the fight as much as healing done on the blobs in the intermission. The main threat to raid members in this fight is the damage taken at the end of each intermission phase. You can quite easily 4 heal Nuroshen since dps is quite tight just make sure your tanks communicate well when they are unable to pick up orbs and healers or dps (about to enter the other realm) pick them up quickly. Malkorok, prot pally should 1 tank the bloodrage with external cds. Thok is obv setup dependant we have 5 pallys so chain devo auras, we usually open the gates at 12 or 13 stacks so it goes to 15 max which requires warlock portals (be careful they despawn at inopportune moments) we go for 24-29 stacks at the normal phase each time means we can kill him after 2 gates are opened and don't deal with the fire one usually. Nazgrim really only requires 2 tanks as long as they taunt over the Ironblade and people use stuns effectively but you may find it easier to use 3. Sha of pride take a lot more co-ordination than on 10 man make sure you have 4 groups around the boss so prisons are taken care of quickly.

  15. #15
    We moved to 25 man last week and we were at 13/14HC SOO. May be I should have waiting to kill garosh but anyways.

    11/14HC first week. All bosses are easy and the above advices help. Most bosses we killed 5 healers and with a 10 man strategy. Thok was very different and we had to rework a raid CD sequence since we noticed he hits quite hard on 25 man.

    Currently the biggest issue by far on 25 man is recruitement and finding good dps players and not average ones....

    It is very evident that bosses were created with a 25 man raid in mind then scaled down, the experience seems way smoother in 25 man.

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