1. #1

    Extra Haste = Barrage > GT ??

    To start off I have never posted on the forums here before (for laziness i'm sure) but I am a long term hunter, I have played a hunter since BC. I am a 575 Ilvl BM hunter with current 11/14H exp.

    Hunter name: Dandyjin-Stormrage

    Now to my question: I have often wondered about this, is there A Haste/Weapon Dmg point a hunter can reach where Barrage becomes better then GT in all cases? I am currently at 15743 Haste and I want to try. Any help with this question is greatly appreciated.

    Again I am a first time poster but long time watcher.

    Thank you,

  2. #2
    I'm not sure, but I don't think haste affects either of those abilities. Glaive toss is an instant ability on a 15 sec CD with a 1 sec global CD how does haste affect it? Barrage is a channeled ability with a 3 second duration, again with the haste question.

    Now weapon damage totally affects it, Barrage is % of weapon damage, making it weapon dependent vs. Glaive toss and its gear dependency(agility=attack power)

    Its probably better to view the comparison between GT and Barrage as per situation or on which is more easily controlled

    also my first post
    Last edited by Badlanguage; 2014-03-18 at 12:53 PM.

  3. #3
    there was a recent thread that discussed this. i pulled a quote that i think is most helpful:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Barrage will start to beat Glaive Toss in single target after you push the cast time of each Barrage below 2.0 seconds.

    It's simple math really. In 30 seconds, 2x GT requires 2 GCD AKA 2 seconds(as 1 GCD is 1 second) and 15 focus per cast. So in focus cost they are the same. However Barrage has a 3 second base cast time(2.4 sec for me at 25% or 10.6k rating) without CDs and since it only scales with Ranged haste and not attack speed(which is the Melee/Range 10% buff), you can only push Barrage below 2.0 seconds with Rapid Fire or Bloodlust(For me with Rapid Fire it's 1.7 seconds).

    Therefore Barrage takes longer to execute by .4 seconds every cycle not counting Rapid Fires/Bloodlust. However I am not sure how many of these hasted Barrages do you need on average in a fight for Barrage to be worth it over GT. But the amount haste needed(50% unbuff) is not reachable without sacrificing Agility greatly for a measly benefit of having Barrage win over GT in single target.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by nolliepop View Post
    there was a recent thread that discussed this. i pulled a quote that i think is most helpful:
    Barrage is affected by focus fire as well. its also ranged haste buff. so as BM, u will have more haste buffed barrage. which does really hurt a lot for both single/aoe situations

  5. #5
    For BM, I guess.. Maybe, but it's not worth stacking way beyond the hastecap for.

    Will do math on it tomorrow.

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    For BM, I guess.. Maybe, but it's not worth stacking way beyond the hastecap for.

    Will do math on it tomorrow.
    Is there a haste cap for BM ? o_O

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by BecauseItsRED View Post
    Is there a haste cap for BM ? o_O
    14.8k - 15.3k-ish gives your Stampede an extra attack and past this point, Haste loses value and you should go for Mastery instead. (~1k DPS increase over full haste > mast > crit).

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  8. #8
    500 point range seems large. Is there a more precise value I can work with?
    Omnipotent WCL || Omnipotent Site || Stream: 5-9pm PST Tues/Wed/Thurs || Worst Btag Ever: Slenderman#1355

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    500 point range seems large. Is there a more precise value I can work with?
    14.8k but will find the exact-exact number now - reason I say that big of a gap is that there is no DPS decrease going 500 points above, it's within margin of error (317-ish DPS). I prefer low cuz Mastery.

    *Simcrafts*

    EDIT: 14751 is the lowest I can get 35 attacks with (4min30 fight)

    EDIT2: On-topic - Barrage is viable for any fight except Iron Juggernaut. If there is more than 1 target up for most of the fight, then it's probably worth going for. On PURE-singletarget however it is never worth it. This makes Barrage useful for 13/14 HC fights.

    If you got lots of Haste on your gear Barrage will get more powerful, but with "average" 578-gear, you'd have to dump agility gems for haste gems to reach a point where it'd only be equal DPS single-target to Barrage without a haste build.

    I'd go Barrage for:

    Immerseus
    Protectors
    Norushen most likely (depends on how many you go in at once)
    Galakras
    Dark Shamans
    Nazgrim depending on tac/but most likely yes.
    Spoils
    Paragons if whoring
    Maybe Garrosh, probably not.

    Barrage is a ~3k DPS loss on a 2-target fight under Glaive Toss, but with just a little Focus Fire RNG/good play with good RF uptime this gap more or less closes. For fights like Norushen (if you go in first), you'll generally finish before your guildies - once you're out of there you'll have a bunch of cooldowns running. This + the shitton of adds that will spawn assuming everyone went in at once will push Barrage up to Glaive Toss and most likely beyond.

    Barrage can be pushed even higher if you plan its usage alongside AoE-phases and stuff.
    Last edited by Azortharion; 2014-03-20 at 07:30 AM.

    Azortharion#2528 - Skype: azortharion - Stream - Hunter F.A.Q - YT - Hunter IRC - Twitter

  10. #10
    OMG thank you all for your feed back. I was unaware of the haste cap and I will be correcting that promptly. Thanks again.

    Quick side note: Just made 12/14H.... F Belt duty lol.

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